Replacement Light and Motion NiMH Batteries

iggs

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Oct 19, 2007
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I need to get a new battery for a light and motion HID light but the standard ones are £90!!!! (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=13160)

So thinking about having one made up by http://component-shop.co.uk/

Its 10.8 volts so thats 9 cells. Problem is the connector and the possibility of other elctronics in the battery that will need to be connected also.

The connector looks like this

IMG_0806.jpg


Anyone know where I could get one like it?

Does anyone know if there is any electrickery in the battery pack? It talks about temperature sensed charging on the website

Any info and advice greatfully received

Thanks

Ian
 

ktronik

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Oct 12, 2003
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Australia
the HID ballast in this light should have a, 2 wire input... I would cut the plug off, open the case & see which 2 go to the ballast... then hook it up for a test...via another plug...

I have the same light with the lipo battery...

you could buy some RC (subC) nimh packs... these are quite cheap & easy to get...

K
 

Nubo

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Dec 23, 2004
Messages
461
I am looking at replacing mine also, as it's down to 2 hours now. And yes, L&M's price is fairly ridiculous at $200 US.

The "electrickery" in the pack, I believe, comes in the form of a thermistor, which gives a signal to the charger and enables it, iirc, to use the Dt/DT charge method, and also to sense overtemp.

I remember a discussion a few years back in the Topica "bike current" discussion list with someone trying to build an alternate pack for long-distance racing, and I recall that the connector is proprietary, and L & M would not provide them with just the connector due to liability concerns.

Don't know if you're looking to replace the pack or if you just want another pack. If replacing, I think you might be able to re-use the connector and thermistor. At least that is my plan. Observe how the thermistor is placed in the pack and aim for a similar placement so that the temperature sensing is maintained. The batteries are likely 4/3A size NiMH. You can find several choices of Sanyo batteries in that size here:

http://www.batterystation.com/nicads.htm

I haven't been able to find out what the "X" prefix stands for. At this point I am assuming "extended" or "extra" capacity. 4500 mAH would provide me 3.6 hours of runtime vs. the original 3 hours, but I am thinking this may come at some cost of recharge cycles and self-discharge, as is familiar with very high capacity AA NIMH batteries. So I may go with the HR-4/3FAU, at 4000 mAH. The "F" designator stand for "FAT", iirc, accounting for the different diameters (18mm for "F", 17mm for non-"F").

If you're looking to keep the existing pack, you might be able to mold the connector with silicone and then form a new one out of some type of acrylic, assuming you can find the appropriate female pins. You'd also need to spec the thermistor somehow. Or... find someone with a dead pack.
 

Nubo

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Dec 23, 2004
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Finally gotten around to this. There are actually 2 components in the pack aside from the batteries. One is a simple thermistor, which is co-terminated with the negative lead at the end of the string. The other is a thermal breaker which is used to bridge 2 batteries and will interrupt the circuit if the temp gets too high. Both of these devices should be placed in close contact to a cell and as near the center of mass of the pack as practical.
 

Nubo

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Dec 23, 2004
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Ok, pack is complete -- and it works like a champ! :) Sorry, no DIY pics but maybe this will help someone... But, proceed at your own risk, of course!

I cannibalized an old L&M waterbottle pack that I'd used several years ago, and was now completely dead. Figured I'd spare my weak but still functional "slimline" pack.

Opened waterbottle and removed the batteries which were joined in a 3x3 brick. Three leads from the pack to the connector - red/black/white.

Red - positive
Black - negative
White - thermistor (co-terminated with black on negative end of pack)

The thermistor is a very small copper-colored cylinder with metal leads on each end. Its job is to provide the charger with a sensing of the battery pack temperature to enable proper charge cutoff. It should be placed near center of mass of the pack, and in contact with a cell. Sorry, I didn't spec the device, These instructions assume you have an old pack to rebuild with, as you're going to need the proprietary connector anyway.

Next step was to break apart the batteries from each other. They were held with a strong adhesive but were able to be wedged apart with a pair of wirecutters. Desoldered the leads for the connector. Removed the connector from the rest of the waterbottle cap; retained plastic flanging.

The one final part that must be kept is the thermostat. A small black plastic rectangle with metal leads. It also should be near center mass and in contact with cells. Its job is to open the circuit if the pack temp gets too high. It will reset when temp drops. Hopefully it will never have to do its job, but it is your failsafe. The thermostat is used to bridge 2 cells in the pack.

Got the 4500 mAH cells as mentioned in previous post. Purchased 12 so that I might get a set of 9 well-matched cells. This is important to avoid having a weaker cell over-discharge and lead to premature pack failure.

Charged cells individually in my Vanson charger. Tight fit, but doable. Considered this a "forming charge". Not a 16-hour charge rate, but fairly slow (700 mA). Used self-discharge feature, then charged again. A lengthy process.

For each set of 4 batteries thusly charged, assembled into temporary pack, then discharged through a 35W auto lamp (approx 3 amp load). Monitored pack voltage and when it dropped to 4.00, took quick voltage of each cell while load still applied. Picked the 9 closest cells for my pack.

I had originally intended to re-assemble back into the waterbottle, for ease of construction. However, these cells are 18mm (4500mAH) vs. the original 17mm (4000mAH), and would not fit. I imagine this is why newer L&M NiMH packs were changed to the "slimline" form factor, despite their insistence of it being driven by desire to free up everyone's waterbottle cages ;). Anyway, I had fat cells and would have to go the "slimline" route.

Joined pairs of cells side-by-side with hot glue on both sides of the join. Assembled 2 "4-packs" by joining these pairs end-to-end with more hot glue, having the tabs aligned and protruding. 4-packs appeared thus:

::::::: :::::::
::::::: :::::::

Soldered the adjoining tabs, slipped heat-shrink tubing over the tabs and folded to the side, against the battery.

At this point I soldered the thermostat between 2 cells at the end, and folded back into the groove that would end up on the "inside". Likewise, the thermistor and negative lead were joined to what would be the negative end, and the thermistor laid so that it would be "inside". Joined the other 4-pack to this one with hot glue. Joined the 9th cell to the resulting pack, in the middle of one of the resulting external grooves. Completed connections between ends of the pack to complete the circuit, and finally soldered the positive lead to the connector. The loose connector then joined to the end of the pack with additional layers of hot glue.

At this point, I charged the bare pack with the OEM "turbo charger". Charge proceeded as normal. Cells got slightly warm at the end and the Dt/DT termination appeared to work properly.

Ran a run-time test, with fan blowing against the light for proper cooling. run time 3 hours 25 minutes on High. Yay!! :twothumbs I would expect it to get even a bit stronger over the next several cycles, but we'll see.

Time to make the pack road-ready. To waterproof, ruggedize and rubberize, I used PlastiDip(tm) coating, found at Home Depot. I chose the black color but they had red also. I ended up with about 6 coats to get the thickness I wanted. The battery slipped from its drying rack during the last coat, so it's even a little fuglier than it would have been. :)

All in all I think it came out pretty well. Looks reasonable, if not "factory". It's a bit longer than the OEM "slimline" pack, due to me canibalizing the old waterbottle connector.

Everything seems in order. My only worry was about the hot glue maybe getting soft during charge, but does not seem to be happening. The charge temp seems well below that level, and our friend the thermostat will hopefully prevent any problems should it come to that.

newnimhpacknh7.jpg
 

AZ Rider

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Feb 9, 2009
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I rebuilt my ARC battery this way.
Ordered a twin pack of batteries from All Battery Center on ebay.
2 10.8V 4200mAh NiMH Flat Battery Pack for AIRSOFT Gun $67.49 w/shipping
I carefully removed the cover from my old battery(save it! for the plug). You can trace the red and black leads, once you carefully seperate the old batteries to be able to follow the black lead. Cut the leads at the wire to tab interface. Do not cut above the heat sink on the black lead, you need this.
Go to Radio Shack and buy 2 sets($4.95 ea) of the matching plugs for the plug on your Airsoft battery. You need 1 set for each of your 2 batteries. They come with the wire crimps already attached. Before attaching, make sure the plug is in the rubber cover that it fits in. Then crimp matching wires to the L&M plug with the crimp. Make sure you have the correct end of the Radio Shack set.
Then you can carefully package the wires and slide the L&M end over the end of the batttery(make sure it is connected).
Plug into L&M turbocharger. Takes about 4-6 hrs the first time. Now you can unplug the L&M cap, attach battery 2 and charge it. The L&M battery/bike rubber block and velco will fit this new pack. I am still working out the waterproofing plan. I have all the pictures if you would like to see.

The cost for 2 batteries(with minimal less run time, from 4500 mah to 4200 mah isn't an issue) $77.39.....sweet, and about 30 mins on the bench.
 

conceptR

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Apr 2, 2012
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I am still working out the waterproofing plan. I have all the pictures if you would like to see.

The cost for 2 batteries(with minimal less run time, from 4500 mah to 4200 mah isn't an issue) $77.39.....sweet, and about 30 mins on the bench.

@AZ Rider Late to the post, but was wondering if you could post photos if you still have them? I just got a hold of a used L&M Arc with a NiMH battery but it doesn't last very long. A bit reluctant to open up the case but if someone has photos I'd be willing to try.

Thanks!
 

Steve K

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Jun 10, 2002
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Peoria, IL
my guess is that you're not going to get a response from AZ Rider... he hasn't posted since this last post in 2009.. exactly 7 years ago!
 

conceptR

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Apr 2, 2012
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my guess is that you're not going to get a response from AZ Rider... he hasn't posted since this last post in 2009.. exactly 7 years ago!

Thanks, didn't check that. Still kinda new to this recell/rebuild of battery packs so was just hoping for some visual aid.
 

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