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Thread: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* Flashanator's Avatar
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    Default H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Can somone give me some advice & if possible lumen ratings on these H4 bulbs that claim to produce more watts then they use. Without lumen ratings I don't know what to expect from these as apose to standard halogen.

    Here is a link to some bulbs I was looking at:

    http://www.intakeone.com/Light_bulbs/IPF_XXbulbs.html


    Please reply.

    thanks.



  2. #2

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashanator 500mW View Post
    Can somone give me some advice & if possible lumen ratings on these H4 bulbs that claim to produce more watts then they use. Without lumen ratings I don't know what to expect from these as apose to standard halogen.

    Here is a link to some bulbs I was looking at:

    http://www.intakeone.com/Light_bulbs/IPF_XXbulbs.html


    Please reply.

    thanks.
    I would be extremely skeptical. A standard H4 puts out 1100-1500 lumens and draws 55-60 watts to do so. If it was possible to get 300% increases(180w equivalent) in output without drawing more power, automakers would be ALL OVER that technology; reaping the benefits of smaller wires, less heat, and less alternator required. That is easily in the range of HID output, but without the associated costs of ballasts and specialized installation. There's a reason automakers use HID and not these special bulbs.

    The best bet for extra light is either HIR bulbs, a true HID retrofit, or rewire with large wires and relays and run actual high wattage bulbs. Here is a decent article on bulbs, and I would recommend a good look at Daniel Stern's website, especially the tech section.



    Edit: The first page I linked to has lumen ratings for various bulbs.
    Last edited by Diesel_Bomber; 11-12-2007 at 04:01 PM.
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  3. #3
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel_Bomber View Post
    ... a true HID retrofit, ...
    What's that? In most parts of the world retrofitting HID into incandescent reflectors is illegal for on road use. Many parts of the world also require HID headlights to have washers to reduce glare from dirt and dust on the lenses.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    What's that? In most parts of the world retrofitting HID into incandescent reflectors is illegal for on road use. Many parts of the world also require HID headlights to have washers to reduce glare from dirt and dust on the lenses.
    My apologies, I should have been more clear. When I wrote "a true HID retrofit" I most certainly did NOT mean jamming an HID capsule into an incan reflector, but retrofitting a reflector designed specifically for HID use. That's only common sense if you don't want to blind everyone else. If your locality requires auto leveling and headlight washers, then those need to be retrofitted as well.

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  5. #5

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

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  6. #6

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashanator View Post
    Can somone give me some advice & if possible lumen ratings on these H4 bulbs that claim to produce more watts then they use.
    Any bulb advertised as producing "nn watts of light for just yy watts of electricity" is a scam. You will never get an honest statement of luminous flux out of IPF (I'd be surprised if they give you any statement of luminous flux at all). In the case of the IPF bulbs you're looking at, there are a few additional bogus claims being made (not necessarily by that particular vendor you linked to —*I saw the obscene pricing and almost threw up before I could close the browser window!):

    "nnn watts optical effect": No. There's no such thing as "optical effect" in this context, it's a meaningless buzzphrase. Remember, lumens are not hard-linked to watts. There are (normal, plain, regulation-spec) bulbs nominally rated 12v 55w that produce from 910 lumens (9003 low beam) to 1820 lumens (H2). Different filament, fill gas, and bulb capsule parameters determine whether any given bulb design is optimized for longer life or higher output or somewhere in the middle. Which brings us to all the noise IPF makes about the great big large-diameter glass on their "Fatboy" XX bulb. It certainly is visually impressive, and it's an easy sell since we tend to associate bigger with stronger/better, but that's wrong in the case of halogen bulbs, which work better with a smaller glass tube. A smaller glass tube is closer to the filament, so it heats up faster and runs hotter, which means a more efficient halogen cycle, which means the filament can be driven harder without tungsten boil-off exceeding the rate of tungsten redeposition by the halogen cycle. And a smaller tube is physically stronger, so it can safely withstand higher gas fill pressure, further improving bulb efficacy.

    Also, disregard the babble about color temperature or "kelvin ratings". It's a distraction from what really matters (lumens). You want bulbs with clear, untinted bulb glass.

    If you need to stay with standard-wattage bulbs, the best ones on the market right now are Philips Xtreme Power (Hey, lookit there, uncolored glass and a smaller-than-standard glass capsule...!) 1895/1150 lumens.

    If your application, whatever it is, has good enough wiring that a slight increase in wattage can be tolerated, then you might prefer the Osram 70/65w bulb instead. 2000/1350 lumens.

    International regulation ECE R37 specifies the luminous flux of the H4 bulb: 1650/1000 lumens ±15% and max allowable wattage 75/68w @ 13.2v. The U.S. regulation 49CFR564 for the 9003/HB2 (U.S. designation for the H4 bulb) is similar: 1580/910 lumens ±10% and max allowable wattage 72/65w @ 12.8v. The lumen differences are not the extent of the performance differences; the filament changes required to make a long-life bulb tend to reduce the beam focus, which shortens seeing distance, and to reduce filament surface luminance, which makes the light less white and more brown. The opposite filament changes are made to create the "Plus" or "Hyper" (+30, +50, +80, +90) type bulbs: Lifespan is reduced, but the beam focus is better so seeing distance is longer. Light color is whiter and less brown. The takeaway message here is that even if all the filaments put out exactly the same amount of light — the same lumens from a long life, a +30, a +50, a regular, an ultralong-life, etc. — the headlamp performance and appearance with the long-life bulb would still be inferior compared to the same headlamp performance and appearance with a regular, or +30, or +50, or +80, or Hyper bulb.

  7. #7

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    http://hirheadlights.com/

    You should check these out, it's probably the next greatest advance in tungsten lighting since the developement of the halogen bulb. They claim 30% more light output for any given watt and a running color temp of 3600k, since it is a tungsten it's a definite 100 CRI.

  8. #8

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Yeah, sort of. An HIR2 9012 bulb produces almost 90% more light than a 9006 (1870 lumens vs. 1000 lumens) at the same nominal 55w power. Also, the site you linked to seems to be jackin' around with the prices ($37 for a single HIR2 9012 low beam?! LOL. They're under $23 here. But we're talking about H4 bulbs here, and there are no HIR H4 bulbs. The only bulbs that can be retrofitted with HIRs are 9005 (HB3) and 9006 (HB4).

  9. #9
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Maybe one day there will be an HIR H9 bulb.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    does that mean the Xtreme Power is not legal for road use in the US if the bulb is a 9003, since it's more than 10% above the 910 lumen on low? Or am I misreading the rules that they only have to be at most 1001 on low at 12.8v?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    If you need to stay with standard-wattage bulbs, the best ones on the market right now are Philips Xtreme Power (Hey, lookit there, uncolored glass and a smaller-than-standard glass capsule...!) 1895/1150 lumens.

    If your application, whatever it is, has good enough wiring that a slight increase in wattage can be tolerated, then you might prefer the Osram 70/65w bulb instead. 2000/1350 lumens.

    International regulation ECE R37 specifies the luminous flux of the H4 bulb: 1650/1000 lumens ±15% and max allowable wattage 75/68w @ 13.2v. The U.S. regulation 49CFR564 for the 9003/HB2 (U.S. designation for the H4 bulb) is similar: 1580/910 lumens ±10% and max allowable wattage 72/65w @ 12.8v. The lumen differences are not the extent of the performance differences; the filament changes required to make a long-life bulb tend to reduce the beam focus, which shortens seeing distance, and to reduce filament surface luminance, which makes the light less white and more brown. The opposite filament changes are made to create the "Plus" or "Hyper" (+30, +50, +80, +90) type bulbs: Lifespan is reduced, but the beam focus is better so seeing distance is longer. Light color is whiter and less brown. The takeaway message here is that even if all the filaments put out exactly the same amount of light — the same lumens from a long life, a +30, a +50, a regular, an ultralong-life, etc. — the headlamp performance and appearance with the long-life bulb would still be inferior compared to the same headlamp performance and appearance with a regular, or +30, or +50, or +80, or Hyper bulb.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Quote Originally Posted by 270winchester View Post
    does that mean the Xtreme Power is not legal for road use in the US if the bulb is a 9003, since it's more than 10% above the 910 lumen on low?
    The Xtreme Power 9003 is street legal in the U.S.; the lumen values given above are at the Europe/international test voltage of 13.2. The U.S. test voltage of 12.8 will of course give lower lumen values.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    gotya. Thanks.
    "a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." -Warren vs District of Columbia, after three women were raped, beaten for 14 hours and police never came after numerous 911 calls were placed

  13. #13

    Default HIR bulbs discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
    Maybe one day there will be an HIR H9 bulb.
    Doubt it, given that the HIR1 and HIR2 have been suddenly and permanently discontinued by the only manufacturer (Toshiba). It should be very interesting to see who starts making these bulbs. Somebody's going to have to; they certainly weren't the most commonly used bulbs, but there was still quite a bit of recent original-equipment usage by Nissan, Toyota, GM, and others worldwide.

    :-(

  14. #14
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Regardless, I better stock up on another set. (got to have everything one could ever need for this depression)
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  15. #15
    Flashaholic* bshanahan14rulz's Avatar
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    Default Re: HIR bulbs discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by Scheinwerfermann View Post
    HIR1 and HIR2 have been suddenly and permanently discontinued by the only manufacturer (Toshiba).
    When did that happen?! :-( I thought it was an awesome idea... And i needed a pair for my 9006 fogs.

  16. #16

    Default Re: H4 Bulb Lumen output?

    Very suddenly, very recently. I spent a couple of hours climbing my way through departments at Toshiba and finally got someone involved with their automotive products, who informed me they discontinued manufacture of those bulbs in February and dismantled the production line. Couldn't get a reason why, though he did agree with me that it was already making problems for the various OEMs around the world who have been buying these bulbs from Toshiba.

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