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Thread: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    Counter-rant;

    This whole thread is ridiculous.
    Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikē, from feminine of taktikos
    Date: 1640
    1 : a device for accomplishing an end
    2 : a method of employing forces in combat
    As far as I'm concerned, tactical is what gets the job done.
    Etymology is fun, and I now wonder what the relationship between "tactical" and "testicle" might be.

  2. #32
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, tactical is what gets the job done.
    That pretty much sums things up.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, tactical is what gets the job done.
    Here I was about to make a long rant about tacticool, mallninjas, what people actually use, reliability bla bla bla.

    Not that the rest of Mikelips post wasn't spot on, it was.
    But that single quoted sentence actually says all about the matter that has to be said.

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Here I was about to make a long rant about tacticool, mallninjas, what people actually use, reliability bla bla bla.

    Not that the rest of Mikelips post wasn't spot on, it was.
    But that single quoted sentence actually says all about the matter that has to be said.

    Mallninjas? MALLNINJAS? What the heck is a mallninja?

    NRA Life Member since 1979

  5. #35
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    Mallninjas? MALLNINJAS? What the heck is a mallninja?
    Mall rent-a-cops probably

  6. #36
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    Mallninjas? MALLNINJAS? What the heck is a mallninja?
    Sorry, should be mall ninja, we don't separate words like that in swedish.

    And if you wonder about the actual word.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=mall+ninja
    which I believe originated from this old thread at glocktalk:
    http://www.geocities.com/suketh.geo/...l_ninja_1.html
    And another fun read.
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1670423/posts

  7. #37

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    Counter-rant;

    This whole thread is ridiculous. There is no point in getting bent out of shape over some marketing-speak.

    Definition per Merriam-Webster;

    tactic
    4 entries found.

    tactic[1,noun]tactic[2,adjective]-tactictactic

    Main Entry: 1tac·tic
    Pronunciation: \ˈtak-tik\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikē, from feminine of taktikos
    Date: 1640
    1 : a device for accomplishing an end
    2 : a method of employing forces in combat

    So, ANY light can be tactical. A plastic $2.99 Eveready can be tactical is it allows you to accomplish your end. It doesn't even have to be black!

    Employing force? No reason why that same light can't be used to aim your Uzi or illuminate your grenade victim.

    Yeah yeah yeah - I know that's not how Surefire or Jeff Cooper define it. But they RE-defined it to suit their purposes in the first place. That doesn't give them ownership of the word you know, or even narrow the definition. So the marketing people are perfectly justified in using the word if they like.

    As far as I'm concerned, tactical is what gets the job done.
    That's exactly right. In the Military Maglites and the cheap plastic flashights are the ones used the most. The Marines like nothing more then to break down a door and clear a room by sending a few guys in. On an interesting note I was chatting with a few military guys from the Replublic of Georgia. We were chatting about the "tactics" we use to clear a certain place. We told them that we were trained to spare innocent people as much as posbile. They told us that their tactics involved throwing a granade in whatever place they were trying to clear. They were not worried one bit if innocent people died or not.
    Guess they really don't have any need for a "tactical" flashlight.

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* woodrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    xiaowenzu, I think your thread has some good points. I am not a LEO, but have had to point a gun at someone before, and having a good "tactical" light does make a difference.

    For 98% of us civilians and even law enforcement, I think that 80% of the lights out there well get the job done and illuminate a target well. That being said there may be a few better lights than others. I would say that the Pelican 7060 is a great Tactical light in my opinion.

    All seriousness aside... so next you are going to tell me that my Ninja flashlight was not actually used by real Ninjas in feudal japan...

    And... for those of you who have never seen it...the greatest S.T.A.R.S tactical light (ever!) review can be found here:
    http://www.outdooridiots.com/feature...orchreview.asp

    I seriously advise you to check it out...it might just save your life.
    "I only smile in the dark...my only comfort is the night gone black..."lyrics from Garbage

  9. #39
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    "The true definition of a handheld tactical flashlight (as defined by Paul Kim of Surefire"


    Because Paul Kim said this..does it make it correct? This is not a flame. Im just saying maybee others define it differently.

  10. #40

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Different tactics call for different tools. Lights may be mounted to guns, helicopters, robots, mirrors/cameras, shields, armored vehicles or boats. They could be infrared. They could be towed generator lights. They may be flares parachuted in from a mortar. They could be chemical light sticks.

    "Tactics drive the gear train."--Pat Rogers, USMC, NYPD ESU retired, firearms instructor to military and law enforcement.

  11. #41
    Flashaholic* woodrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FASTCAR View Post
    "The true definition of a handheld tactical flashlight (as defined by Paul Kim of Surefire"


    Because Paul Kim said this..does it make it correct? This is not a flame. Im just saying maybee others define it differently.
    I never thought I would do this on a Fastcar post, but..

    +1
    "I only smile in the dark...my only comfort is the night gone black..."lyrics from Garbage

  12. #42

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Thanks, you're welcome! Yes, I agree.. it's ashame that many other manufacturers have skewed the original meaning of tactical, it's not what it use to be. They even call a book light a 'Tactical reading light' now, which IMO, is pretty silly. *sighs*

    LMAO!



    I wouldn't mind if manufacturers called their lights 'defensive' because any light can be used defensively (swing it at someones head! ) But as long as they don't call it 'tactical' then it's all good. I agree that the word 'tactical' has been overused by manufacturers, and it frustrates me because the majority of the lights are NOT tactical. Sure, they could call their fridge light a 'tactical food light' but that's just being silly. A true handheld tactical light is what we flashaholics have long considered to be used by S.W.AT teams, special agents, military personels, etc to engage in gun fights, rescue missions, in dark environments such as warehouse, underground areas, etc. They usually have one hand holding the gun and the other holding the light (as in the photos of 1st post) There are also weapon mounted tactical lights but that's another thing.

    Yes, a tail mounted switch is a must for tactical lights, because you don't want to fumble around to locate the side switch in the dark. Some may have clips, but that is not compulsory because many are stored in a holster.

    I can safely say that some of the best times I've ever had involved fumbling about in the dark..........and I'm not alone!!!..........

  13. #43
    Flashaholic* woodrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by zpaulg View Post
    I can safely say that some of the best times I've ever had involved fumbling about in the dark..........and I'm not alone!!!..........
    Sure you were not alone....
    "I only smile in the dark...my only comfort is the night gone black..."lyrics from Garbage

  14. #44

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Sure, we also have helicopter mounted tactical lights, weapon mounted ones, and tank mounted tactical lights, but those are different kinds of tactical lights. But we flashoholics are more interested in the hand held tactical flashlights here.

    Quote Originally Posted by FASTCAR View Post
    Because Paul Kim said this..does it make it correct?
    No, but his definition of a tactical flashlight is more valid than those manufacturers who unashamedly call their fridge light a 'tactical' light to battle hunger.
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-15-2007 at 10:30 PM.

  15. #45

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodrow View Post
    xiaowenzu, I think your thread has some good points. I am not a LEO, but have had to point a gun at someone before, and having a good "tactical" light does make a difference.

    I would say that the Pelican 7060 is a great Tactical light in my opinion.
    Leave those sleeky Ninjas alone! hehe, I agree, the Pelican 7060, is a trusty Tactical Light, with it's momentary forward protruding tail switch (a must for tactical lights), it's great for LEOs, and the likes.

    The Pelican 7060, a Tactical light used by LEOs


    Below: Not quite a tactical light


    Nor is this:
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-16-2007 at 06:56 AM.

  16. #46

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Sorry double post, please remove!
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-15-2007 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Sorry double post, please remove!

  17. #47
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    with it's momentary protruding forward tail switch (a must for tactical lights)
    According to who? I have already stated reasons when this will not be the case yet you continue to state it as fact. Because a manufacturer uses this as a sales pitch (and this is nothing against SF or Paul Kim) then it must be gospel?

    I think the 7060 could probably be described as the ultimate "tactical" light since it can be used with whatever method you light. BTW i don't think that is a picture of the 7060
    There's no truth in the news and no news in the truth

  18. #48
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Funny, the switch on the 7060 doesn't protrude at all.... Actually, I think the L2T switch protrudes more.....


  19. #49
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Personally I want a forward clicky: momentary with click on, click off. If you want a twist constant on with a lockout unscrew, I've got no problem with that, but it's not what I want. My L1Tv2 is all the tactical light I need. Then again, I don't have a subscription to Soldier of Fortune magazine, and Blackwater just reminds me of OIL.

    Last edited by NA8; 11-16-2007 at 12:37 AM.

  20. #50
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    Talking Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    One word here...marketing! Thank you for saying it like it has to be sayed.

    chiphead

  21. #51

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by chiphead View Post
    One word here...marketing! Thank you for saying it like it has to be sayed.
    I agree. My momma, has always told me never trust anyone who's after your wallet, and more times than once she was right.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeeperSD
    I have already stated reasons when this will not be the case yet you continue to state it as fact.
    Well then, I guess at times, I do call my fridge light a tactical-hunger-busting-light! Although my SWAT friends would probably laugh their heads off at me, for being so silly before pulling out their Surefire L5

    Quote Originally Posted by KeeperSD
    because a manufacturer uses this as a sales pitch (and this is nothing against SF or Paul Kim) then it must be gospel?
    I'm glad we agree with the basic premise of this thread here... we flashoholics are simply sick, frustrated and fed up with countless manufacturers who use the word 'tactical' as a sales pitch for the lights, when obviously there's nothing tactical about it. And as a flashoholic, it has always been my best interest to separate the real deals, from the myths. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke
    Funny, the switch on the 7060 doesn't protrude at all....
    It does protrude, although not as far as the Surefire L5, for example. It has a tail mounted, momentary forward switch, suitable for tactical operations...

  22. #52
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    @ Xiaowenzu

    Quick question. Is the Fenix L1T/L2T "tactical"?

  23. #53

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    @ Xiaowenzu
    Well Lobo, no offense, but I don't want to go into another Surefire vs 'X-brand' debate here - there are far too many on this forum already... just because Surefire makes some of the best light, it doesn't help manufacturers when they are always compared against them. It's like saying 'Oh Surefireis the standard, and we must all measure against the standard'.

    However to answer your question, I shall quote another member's previous post, who's has a more eloquent description than I:

    Quote Originally Posted by elgarak
    "Momentary: You fail to realize that constant on is NEVER employed in tactical situations. You give away your position when the light is on. Clickies are not recommended because you can accidentally switch to constant on. It's difficult to restrain yourself from pressing too hard when under duress. The moments you need to realize your error and to switch off the light might cost you your life."
    I guess we should all take manufacturers claim of the word 'tactical' with a grain of salt. That being said, I confidently believe the Fenix L1T/L2T would allow a good 'tactical' raid on the fridge at night, despite being unsuitable for SWAT, FBI, Military operations.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Well Lobo, no offense, but I don't want to go into another Surefire vs 'X-brand' debate here - there are far too many on this forum already... just because Surefire makes some of the best light, it doesn't help manufacturers when they are always compared against them. It's like saying 'Oh Surefireis the standard, and we must all measure against the standard'.

    However to answer your question, I shall quote another member's previous post, who's has a more eloquent description than I:



    I guess we should all take manufacturers claim of the word 'tactical' with a grain of salt. That being said, I confidently believe the Fenix L1T/L2T would allow a good 'tactical' raid on the fridge at night, despite being unsuitable for SWAT, FBI, Military operations.
    Well, it's pretty much YOU who have made this a Surefire vs X-brand thread from the beginning...

    As said 100 times before, tactical is defined by how you use your light, not the brand. Ask any real "operator" (my, how I love all those buzzwords).
    And nobody has said that all the other manufacturers are comparing against Surfire.

    I will continue bearing with your definition of "tactical" just for arguments sake. By your statement about constant on, you have dismissed about half of Surefire's line of lights from being "tactical". Do you really think that your own Surefire U2 doesn't have more "tactical" uses than nightly fridge raids....
    Hell, my old Ledfinity is more "tactical" than your U2 by that definition.

    I really don't know why I bother with you, since you're clearly a way over the top brand loyalist.
    And you might also ask yourself why this topic upsets you so much...

    And I think I'm gonna tell my 2 LEO-friends that there is a guy on an internetforum about flashlights who says that the ASP-batonlights they are issued from the Swedish Police aren't tactical enough for them. Bet at least they'll get a laugh from it.
    Last edited by Lobo; 11-16-2007 at 09:30 AM.

  25. #55
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeeperSD View Post
    what about the 100 odd lumens coming out the front of the light, i think that might also be a little more of a give away than a slight click from the switch
    You know, I was just wondering about that. What the heck difference does it make if there is a little click, when a microsecond later there is this huge flood of light? The thing could explode for all the difference the noise makes!

    NRA Life Member since 1979

  26. #56
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    You know, I was just wondering about that. What the heck difference does it make if there is a little click, when a microsecond later there is this huge flood of light? The thing could explode for all the difference the noise makes!
    + 1x10^9

    Exactly! Unless you're after blind badguys, which is more noticeable? A pin drop of a click, or a sudden retina scorching light?


    But I still say just moving around will give you away long before a clicking sound if you're trying to be stealthy. I don't care how careful you are, guys in full "tactical" gear aren't whisper quiet.

    Also, the MagLite has been the go-to tactical light for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of law enforcement officers around the world for 20 years, and suddenly it's not "tactical" anymore?

  27. #57

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    This is a pretty long thread for only two pages. I didn't read through the whole thing but I did want to put my two cents in.

    Tactical is NOT they way you say it is. Tactical has alot to do with TACT. Me carrying a Surefire L7 on belt in a business casual environment is not very tactful.....hence no very tactical. For the same reason my CCW is not a H&K Mark23 or what ever that Tacticool gun is. I carry a S&W 642 because its is easily hidden....or in other words is tactful......hence it is tactical.

    Tactical situations are situations where tact is needed, not just situations that FBI, SWAT, or LEO's will get into.

    Just FYI Here is the actual definition of 'tactical'

    tac·ti·cal /ˈtćkkəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tak-ti-kuhl] –adjective 1.of or pertaining to tactics, esp. military or naval tactics. 2.characterized by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure: tactical movements. 3.of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage. 4.expedient; calculated. 5.prudent; politic.

  28. #58

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Well, it's pretty much YOU who have made this a Surefire vs X-brand thread from the beginning...

    As said 100 times before, tactical is defined by how you use your light, not the brand. Ask any real "operator" (my, how I love all those buzzwords).
    And nobody has said that all the other manufacturers are comparing against Surfire.

    I will continue bearing with your definition of "tactical" just for arguments sake. By your statement about constant on, you have dismissed about half of Surefire's line of lights from being "tactical". Do you really think that your own Surefire U2 doesn't have more "tactical" uses than nightly fridge raids....
    Hell, my old Ledfinity is more "tactical" than your U2 by that definition.

    I really don't know why I bother with you, since you're clearly a way over the top brand loyalist.
    And you might also ask yourself why this topic upsets you so much...

    And I think I'm gonna tell my 2 LEO-friends that there is a guy on an internetforum about flashlights who says that the ASP-batonlights they are issued from the Swedish Police aren't tactical enough for them. Bet at least they'll get a laugh from it.
    No, I never made this a Surefire vs X-brand thread, since I was merely using a examples to illustrate points of the topic. I obviously wasn't comparing brand vs brand.

    Well, 'dictionarily' speaking, I suppose the word 'tactical' means something which 'employs tactics' but that definition doesn't satisfy us Flashoholics especially when we're dealing with a niche topic such as flashlights. Dictionary meanings are quite broad.

    Anyways, for instance, I could swing my 6V Lantern 'tactically', knocking out the burglar's knife.... but I would NOT call that flashlight a 'Tactical' light, just as I would NOT call my computer mouse a 'weapon', even though I've been known to deliberately place it on the floor to have someone slip on it! So even though you can call the computer mouse a 'weapon' it really isn't - machine guns, grenades, and rocket launchers ARE weapons.
    Same goes with flashlights - majority of which are NOT Tactical lights - it's just a silly buzzword for sneaky manufacturers to dupe us. Buzzwords - "Tactical fridge light", "tactical nail clipping light", "tactical nose picking light" bwahahaha

    However, Lobo, I do agree with you that NOT all Surefires are tactical lights - the U2 is a great light, but my SWAT friends would never use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip
    You know, I was just wondering about that. What the heck difference does it make if there is a little click, when a microsecond later there is this huge flood of light? The thing could explode for all the difference the noise makes!
    Probably something to do with the fact that light itself is soundless, but a click is not soundless.
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-16-2007 at 10:21 AM.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    But I still say just moving around will give you away long before a clicking sound if you're trying to be stealthy. I don't care how careful you are, guys in full "tactical" gear aren't whisper quiet.
    Ninjas on the other hand, especially mall ninjas, are all quietlike...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    Also, the MagLite has been the go-to tactical light for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of law enforcement officers around the world for 20 years, and suddenly it's not "tactical" anymore?
    Exactly!

  30. #60
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Probably something to do with the fact that light itself is soundless, but a click is not soundless.
    Again, so what? Both sound and light give position away. Both come from the same place. Unless your opponent is shooting at you while wearing a blindfold, it won't matter.

    NRA Life Member since 1979

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