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Thread: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

  1. #61
    Flashaholic* PhantomPhoton's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    LEOs in my area haven't used Mags for several years. (I cant speak for every little department but in general I believe this to be accurate) Streamlights have been default standard issue to many in my neck of the woods for 10+ years. Surefires have been quite common too, especially 6Ps.

    "Tactical" has very little meaning anymore, though I do have my own definition of what it is not. Defining what it is seems to be more of a problem.
    1) Neutral white, it's the new black. Heck, it's not even "new" anymore.
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  2. #62
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Ninjas on the other hand, especially mall ninjas, are all quietlike...



    Exactly!
    As opposed to their nemeis, the mall rat! Mall rats congregate in large noisy groups.

    NRA Life Member since 1979

  3. #63
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post

    Probably something to do with the fact that light itself is soundless, but a click is not soundless.
    But is much easier to SEE a blinding light than HEAR a very small sound. Using your logic, you'd be no worse off wearing a neon green tactical jumpsuit, as long as your flashlight was silent as a mouse. Now, where to buy a neon green tactical jumpsuit...

  4. #64
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    No, I never made this a Surefire vs X-brand thread, since I was merely using a examples to illustrate points of the topic. I obviously wasn't comparing brand vs brand.
    I've had the dubious pleasure of reading a lot of your threads, and ALL of those I've read, are bashing Fenix or chinese lights in general. So if this wasn't another bash-thread, why didnt you just compare (again, by your definition, not mine) the "tactical" Surefires against the "not so tactical only suited for fridge-raids" Surefires, like your U2. Would have gotten across your point so much easier without stirring up any controversy.

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Well, 'dictionarily' speaking, I suppose the word 'tactical' means something which 'employs tactics' but that definition doesn't satisfy us Flashoholics especially when we're dealing with a niche topic such as flashlights. Dictionary meanings are quite broad.
    If your going to chose a definition by either a dictionary or a manufacturer, I'll go with the dictionary every time.

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Anyways, for instance, I could swing my 6V Lantern 'tactically', knocking out the burglar's knife.... but I would NOT call that flashlight a 'Tactical' light, just as I would NOT call my computer mouse a 'weapon', even though I've been known to deliberately place it on the floor to have someone slip on it! So even though you can call the computer mouse 'weapon' it really isn't - machine guns, grenades, and rocket launchers ARE weapons.
    Same goes with flashlights - majority of which are NOT Tactical lights - it's just a buzzword for sneaky manufacturers to dupe us. Buzzwords - "Tactical fridge light", "tactical nail clipping light", "tactical nose picking light"
    There you go, finally you got it. The word tactical used by ALL manufacturers is lame. It's just a word, and I have no idea why you get so upset about it.

  5. #65
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    Again, so what? Both sound and light give position away. Both come from the same place. Unless your opponent is shooting at you while wearing a blindfold, it won't matter.
    I got it!! Make the badguy close his eyes with this, then he has to fight back on the sound of your switch alone...

    It all makes sense now...

  6. #66
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    I also move to argue that a fridge light IS indeed TACTICAL. It fits all the aforementioned criteria. It protrudes .5-.75 inches beyond the body, certainly be operated with gloved hands, is purely momentary, and does not make any sort of clicking sound. In the middle of the night during a snack run, it is certainly blinding to an attacker (a.k.a. late night snacker).

    Did I miss anything?


  7. #67

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Okay, enough of the rats and Mall Ninjas! *he says as he takes off his Ninja Balaclava*

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    Again, so what? Both sound and light give position away. Both come from the same place. Unless your opponent is shooting at you while wearing a blindfold, it won't matter.
    hmm... I guess that explains why the SWAT teams are opting for those really loud reverse clickys on their flashlights these days. They want to give away their positions! *CLICK CLACK*!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo
    Would have gotten across your point so much easier without stirring up any controversy.
    Lobo, I love you like a brother, believe you me, and everything else merely a misunderstanding of our differences - Hey we're all flashoholics here! hehehe

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo
    If your going to chose a definition by either a dictionary or a manufacturer, I'll go with the dictionary every time.
    I'd go with neither, but the view of the flashlight community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo
    There you go, finally you got it. The word tactical used by ALL manufacturers is lame.
    Well, I wouldn't say ALL manufacturers because some are worthy of their claim, but definitely the majority who claim their lights as 'tactical' are lame. Like everyone here, I'm just darn sick and tired of manufacturers throwing out the word 'tactical' when clearly their light is not. It does nothing but skew the meaning of the word, and as a flashoholic, we're here to set things right.
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-16-2007 at 10:52 AM.

  8. #68
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post

    hmm... I guess that explains why the SWAT teams are opting for those really loud reverse clickys on their flashlights these days. They want to give away their positions! *CLICK CLACK*!
    Nobody said anything about reverse clickies here. The rest of us are arguing for forward clickies, with for some odd reason you apparently don't think is "tactical".....

  9. #69

    Crackup Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    I also move to argue that a fridge light IS indeed TACTICAL. It fits all the aforementioned criteria. It protrudes .5-.75 inches beyond the body, certainly be operated with gloved hands, is purely momentary, and does not make any sort of clicking sound. In the middle of the night during a snack run, it is certainly blinding to an attacker (a.k.a. late night snacker).

    Did I miss anything?


  10. #70
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Aww come on, you guys should've figured out that we have a resident surefire troll here by now!

  11. #71
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Lobo, I love you like a brother, believe you me, and everything else merely a misunderstanding of our differences - Hey we're all flashoholics here! hehehe

    Aw, when you put it like that, I can't stay mad at you. I officially give up.
    Let's agree that we disagree. A LOT.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post
    Aww come on, you guys should've figured out that we have a resident surefire troll here by now!
    Yeah, but it's still fun!

  13. #73

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    Nobody said anything about reverse clickies here.
    Oh, you know I was being sarcastic! Of course reverse clickies are NOT tactical. duh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke
    I also move to argue that a fridge light IS indeed TACTICAL. It fits all the aforementioned criteria. It protrudes .5-.75 inches beyond the body, certainly be operated with gloved hands, is purely momentary, and does not make any sort of clicking sound. In the middle of the night during a snack run, it is certainly blinding to an attacker (a.k.a. late night snacker).
    LMAO!, I love your Sarcasm more than mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post
    Aww come on, you guys should've figured out that we have a resident surefire troll here by now!
    Lobo, wasn't bashing Surefire... he never said anything bad about Surefire (on this thread).
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-16-2007 at 11:01 AM.

  14. #74
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    I got it!! Make the badguy close his eyes with this, then he has to fight back on the sound of your switch alone...

    It all makes sense now...
    Ah, my tax dollars at work. I feel so much safer knowing Homeland Security is on the job!

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  15. #75
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeeperSD View Post
    I think you missed the point, tactical by definition is 'relating to tactics' and tactics is defined as 'a planned way of doing something'.

    So if someone has been trained to shoot with a light that utilises a body switch, say the Chapman or the Ayoob method (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/.../557/sesent/00), then a light that utilises a tail switch IS NOT TACTICAL for that user as it is not a planned way of doing something.
    True enough, and to think you posted the right answer right there on the first page of responses!. Surefire created the small tactical light market, both the company as a whole and its leaders such as Paul Kim are to be respected and listened to as far as this topic. However, there are other experts, just as authoritative, who have come to different conclusions, and the position that "a tactical light is what Paul Kim says it is" is not smart ... although again I'd agree that Paul deserves to be listened to carefully. To xiaowenzu: With all due respect, xiaowenzu, your position betrays the rigidness and zealotry of the completely untrained, who has found "the answer" in one particular authority.

    Regarding the topic as a whole ... ten years ago called, it wants its thread back. The term "tactical" became a loose marketing term years ago, I'm shocked anyone still gets worked up over it.
    Last edited by Joe Talmadge; 11-16-2007 at 11:41 AM.

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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Lobo, wasn't bashing Surefire... he never said anything bad about Surefire (on this thread).
    I don't know if you're operating on a stratospheric level of sarcasm here, but...
    I think he meant you.

  17. #77
    Flashaholic* WadeF's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    I might have to concede to xiaowenzu on this one. In Jurassic Park, when those idiot kids decided to pull out a high power spot light and shine it at the T-Rex, to their dismay, it did not have momentary on! They had to fiddle and fumble around with it to try and turn it off! That T-Rex almost had them for dinner if Jeff Goldblum didn't come to their aid. So when dealing with a hungry T-Rex, a tactical light with a momentary on is a must! Unless you need to throw the light to get the T-Rex to chase it, then you may want a forward clicky, especially if you only have the use of one hand and wouldn't be able to easily twist the tailcap for constant on.

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  18. #78
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    +


    Just wait until the 'Super Tactical' lights come out....

  19. #79
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post


    Just wait until the 'Super Tactical' lights come out....
    "Super fun fantastic tactical flashlight!!!"

  20. #80
    Flashaholic* 4sevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Okay, here's a rant. Just like the rest of you flashoholics, I'm frustratingly fed up with so many lights that claim to be 'tactical' when obviously they're NOT.

    ...

    Below is NOT a tactical light: (Reverse clicky, which means it's noisy operation, doesn't allow forward momentary operation, far too complex U.I., and button shrouded by the body, which is a big NO-NO for tactical lights.) Shown here is a Fenix L2D-CE... NOT a tactical light.
    It's quite amazing that you take every opportunity to bash Fenix.
    You know the L2D never claimed to be tactical light. At least
    not the manufacturer nor I. Your complaint that flashlights that
    claim to be tactical but actually aren't doesn't apply to the L2D.
    Do you see the flaw in your logic?

    Now this bad boy on the other hand....

    Last edited by 4sevens; 11-16-2007 at 01:29 PM.

  21. #81
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    "Super fun fantastic tactical flashlight!!!"
    I believe the term is funtastical.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  22. #82
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    and button shrouded by the body, which is a big NO-NO for tactical lights.
    'course, SF has put out tacticals w/ shrouds & clickies. Uh-oh. Bus error ... core dumped

  23. #83
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    +

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    I believe the term is funtastical.
    Don't forget the Extra Primary Funtastical 2



  24. #84

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?



    Well, the Fenix T1 bright colored GITD button, is akin to wearing a neon jacket, with the words painted in fluorescent, saying “Hey, I’m here… SHOOT ME!” So a big NO-NO for tactical.

    Besides, it’s deep-set clicky switch, instead of twist for constant on, is difficult to press without accidently hitting the '3 prongs' and can easily give away one’s position because it’s difficult to regulate the amount of pressure applied during times of stress. You can easily press too hard, and there’ll be a loud ‘CLICK CLACK’! noise.

    IMO, this topic becoming very intersting! This discussion is much more than about Surefire, Pelican, or Gladius, even though they do make tactical lights.
    Nor is it about Fenix, because if we include every manufacturer who does NOT make tactical lights we’d be getting off topic. It’s just a general rant on the word ‘tactical lights’, and to engage people in the discussion.

  25. #85

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Like everyone, I too am annoyed at lights, which describe themselves as being ‘tactical lights’ when they’re obviously not. It just skews the meaning of the terminology for the average Joe. Next thing you know, manufacturers will start calling their $2 plastic light, as Weapon lightssimply because it can be used to ‘fight the darkness’.. and they’d use the dictionary definition as their defence. So, but where does that leave the actual REAL weapon-lights that are mounted on firearms & used in combat by SWAT teams, FBI agents, and military operations, etc?

    It just confuses everyone; now the same thing is happening to the word ‘tactical’ but thankfully we flashoholics are smart enough to know the REAL deals from the wannabes.  Hey, I could use my Pen-light to pick my nose using great tactics, but heck I’d never dare to call it a ‘tactical light’ – it’s simply not worthy of that honor.
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-17-2007 at 01:16 AM.

  26. #86
    Flashaholic* KeeperSD's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Besides, it’s deep-set clicky switch, instead of twist for constant on, is difficult to press without accidently hitting the '3 prongs' and can easily give away one’s position because it’s difficult to regulate the amount of pressure applied during times of stress. You can easily press too hard, and there’ll be a loud ‘CLICK CLACK’! noise.
    There is another thread that you comment on the "tactile" feel of your Novatec, and previously in this thread you have mentioned that a Novatec can be classed as tactical, but when it comes to a Fenix it is a different story. You haven't even felt the switch on the T1 so you would have no idea about the noise/feel/response of the switch.

    I have mentioned this point a number of times, as have others, however you continue to conveniently miss it

    Please explain how the slight noise coming from a switch that makes the light ILLUMINATE, the instant the noise happens, is going to give away your position. When illuminated these lights generally put out enough light to be seen from hundreds of metres away yet the click is going to give you away
    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Well, the Fenix T1 bright colored GITD button, is akin to wearing a neon jacket, with the words painted in fluorescent, saying “Hey, I’m here… SHOOT ME!” So a big NO-NO for tactical.
    If you bothered to read the thread on the T1 with an open mind then you would have read that the switch is not GITD. When your thumb is on the switch you won't even see the colour of the switch. There are a couple of things with the T1 that i don't like the look of, but they don't necessarily stop the light being tactical.

    I really don't think you or anyone here, or any manufacturer for that matter are an authority to describe what a tactical light is and that includes your beloved SF. This comes down to individual preferences and tastes as different agencies and services have different requirements and techniques and can't necessarily be covered by one definition.
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  27. #87
    Flashaholic* WadeF's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    So are you going to throw Novatac in there with flashlights that claim to be tactical, but by your definition, are not?

    Novatac120T:

    "The EDC Tactical Series is designed for use by Military and Law Enforcement personnel. Designed with the same indestructibility as the EDC Series the EDC-85T or 120T also contain the intelligent power supply, which automatically reduces output to preserve the battery as it starts to run down. The EDC-85T or 120T can produce blinding brightness or a disorienting strobe in the eyes of an oncoming attacker, giving the user critical time to assert control. Pre-programmed for simplicity and consistency with standard extended tactical button, the EDC T-series turns on to maximum every time. Its momentary maximum feature allows for quick burst of light in tactical operations with disorienting strobe just a button push away. With variable brightness settings the EDC T-Series Flashlights perform in the toughest of situations providing the user with an added advantage in performing the mission.."

    A very highly regarded light, yet it CLICKS on. Fine by me, but I'm curious why you're attacking all these other lights with forward clickies when you carry one yourself and hold it in high regard?
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  28. #88

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Well, I must say the Novatac 120T switch is actually an electronic one, rather than a mechanical clicky. So even if you accidentally use fully press it all the way, it will still be momentary - ie, will go off when pressure is released. The Fenix T1, you press it all the way and the light stays on - a big no-no. Not to mention it produces a loud click, because of it's mechanical inherent design. Also, it's a bright orange colored button - so another big NO NO for tactical.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeeperSD View Post
    Please explain how the slight noise coming from a switch that makes the light ILLUMINATE, the instant the noise happens, is going to give away your position. When illuminated these lights generally put out enough light to be seen from hundreds of metres away yet the click is going to give you away
    Well my friend, it ll depends on the direction the light is pointed. You have to understand that every tiny bit of noise adds up, and tactical equipments strive to be as silent as possible, until you WANT to make yourself known... and that's usually with a gun. Also, WHEN you shine that light to blind the enemy, it wouldn't matter how loud it clicks. BUT...... until that happens, you're most likely be using the light for signaling to team members, and setting up your position for the strike. and if pointed away from the enemy, they cannot see the light, nor hear it.

    IMO, it's all about choices.. a silent type of switching mechanism allows you more chances to be stealthy... until you really want to make yourself known.


    BTW, I'm a proud flashoholic! and I cherish my babies every day, I'm awake.

  29. #89
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Well my friend, it ll depends on the direction the light is pointed. You have to understand that every tiny bit of noise adds up, and tactical equipments strive to be as silent as possible, until you WANT to make yourself known... and that's usually with a gun. Also, WHEN you shine that light to blind the enemy, it wouldn't matter how loud it clicks. BUT...... until that happens, you're most likely be using the light for signaling to team members, and setting up your position for the strike. and if pointed away from the enemy, they cannot see the light, nor hear it.
    You really believe that an operator who is trying to be stealthy will use a flashlight to communicate Ever heard of radios?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    IMO, it's all about choices.. a silent type of switching mechanism allows you more chances to be stealthy... until you really want to make yourself known.
    If you are going to be stealthy you ARE NOT GOING TO USE A FLASHLIGHT

    I hate to tell you my FRIEND i understand quite a lot about noise discipline and being in a life threatening situation, do you? or is your apparant expertise being based on hollywood movies and the Surefire website?
    Last edited by KeeperSD; 11-17-2007 at 01:47 AM.
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Not to mention it produces a loud click, because of it's mechanical inherent design.
    It does? It may, or it may not. No one has one yet to confirm, so I don't understand why you are stating it as fact that the Fenix T1 produces a "loud click"?
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