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Thread: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

  1. #121
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    LOL
    That REALLY cracked me up!
    Last edited by Lobo; 11-20-2007 at 07:42 AM.

  2. #122

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    The defenition of tactical light that I hear about a lot is a light that is bright enough to temporarily blind or disorient the agressor. From what surefire says (I am trying not to be biased, but it is the only source that is coming from the top of my head) an incandescent lamp that is around 65 surefire lumens or an LED running at 50 to 65 lumens is considered tactical output.

  3. #123
    Flashaholic* divine's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    That looks like a nice "tactical" layout of your fridge!

  4. #124

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    "In selecting a light, it should be as bright as possible--period. A handheld light should readily fit the hand, allow for uncomplicated manipulation and render a clear and distinct sight picture. Its housing should be rugged, machined with a positive gripping surface and possess a rear-mounted activation switch which lends itself to easy activation, no fumbling and a positive contact surface."--Scott Reitz, LAPD SWAT sniper/Metro tactics instructor (retired), founder of International Tactical Training Seminars.

    from Surefire Combat Tactics 2005.

    When SEAL Team 6 needed to learn room entries, they got Scotty to teach them. When FBI HRT was organized, they called Scotty.

    Surefire's criteria is (from their flashlight selection and tactics DVD 2005):

    1. Bright, smooth beam (65 lumens minimum)
    2. Tactically correct switching (their term)--a momentary tailswitch, not clicky
    3. Reliable, high energy power source (referring to 123A batteries, as opposed to ni-cad rechargeables or alkalines)

  5. #125
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Hmmm, looks like we have some INTENTIONAL trolling here...
    Red emphasis added:

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    on your flashlights?

    Okay for those who don't know... a normal Clickie switch, also known as 'Forward Clicky' operates like those on a Maglite - when you lighty press the button, the light is INSTANTLY activated. Press harder, it clicks and the light stays on. Great for signalling or short bursts of light.

    I must admit I've always been a fan of the 'normal clicky' mechanism since I purchased my first Maglite. It just feels so natural and intuitive to operate.


    Also because I live alone today, and always place my Surefire U2 (a normal clickie) beside my bed when I sleep. Sometimes when I hear noises in my room at night- I'm always scared there are burglars... so I instantly activate my light - short stabs of momentary burst to shine into the eyes of my would-be attacker. And while he's dis-orientated, my left handreaches for the MAG 6D and CLUB his head!

    Now with a reverse clicky, I am unable to have instant light. It will certainly cost me the precious time to activate it and put my life in danger. This is why I only buy FORWARD CLICKYS.

    P.s You can now understand why I HATE twisties even more! )
    And

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post

    However with FORWARD clickie, such as Maglites, I pretty much have the depress the button quite far to activate the 'click' which locks the light permanently on. It takes more effort to fully engage the light, which is a good thing. Forward clickie switches have longer travels because it's designed for tactical signaling... and you DON'T want the light so easily to lock on during crucial signalling moments - it can mean life and death for the user.

    hmm, the Surefire L1 is essentially a forward clickie with different levels of brightness. Off my head I can also think of the HDS 85 and Photon Microlight which are forward clickie with 'cool' U.I too. Anyways, as somebody here said, the U.I circuit board doesn't know if the power was interruped by the use of a reverse clickie or a forward clickie. Both implementations can have 'cool' U.I
    And

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Very true. Another thing is that normal clickie allows you to turn on the light SILENTLY, since you don't have to fully CLICK it. I heard a CPF'er complain that his reverse clickie wakes his wife up everytime he use it to 'peek in the night' or go to the toilet. The sound of reverse clicky can be quite loud especially when you sleep with a partner.

    With Forward clickie, I can activate the light to go toilet at night without making sound.
    So, it seems as if you have "changed" your opinion on switches for the sole purpose of creating conflict.


    To this, I only have one thing to say:


  6. #126
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    I have been on the streets for 10 years now and have made hundreds of high risk entries as well as arrests. I work with some of the best trained officers with us all having had several real world experiences as well as training. I have also attended several training events and yes have had much training at these events on correct light usage......not once in over 10 years have I noticed a clicky switch being a problem due to noise nor have I ever seen any who disregard a light from purchase due to a noisy clicky switch. Never once have I ,or the other 900 officers in my Dept, thought twice of a noisy tail clicky switch.....it is simply not an issue. A good officer knows to never keep his light on anyway as the actual beam is more of a threat than any noise. During a building search or night entry you will see officers constantly clicking their lights on and off again to avoid being tracked by any threats. Never once have the many "clicks" been a problem....

    In todays world full of defense lawyers we will always have to announce our presence first before making any entry anyway. Yes it is always loud and violent and designed to distract the enemy so a "click" from a tailswitch is the least of our worries.

    For me a true tactical light is simple ,bright and reliable. Many will argue that it should be operated on standard 123 batteries for better reliability however with todays advances on rechargeables and Li/ion I believe battery type is not an issue. I also believe simple is so much better and makes emergency repair or battery changes in the field quick and easy. It should be small enough to carry on a standard duty belt as space is limited with any good officer having a spare light anyway so both must fit the belt.

    I could go on and on about tactical usage or qualification for a tactical light however there are several good choices out today. Yes Surefire makes some of the best as well as Wolf-Eyes, Pelican, Stinger, Pila, Tiger-Light and yes even the tried and true Mag-Charger.
    Is that an ARC in your pocket or are you just small like that?

  7. #127

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Marduke, I thought I was already clear about it, and I thought you were told to keep this thread discussion on topic., but instead you still keep repeating what I've said. Please know, I always mean what I say and say what I mean:

    I am not a fan of CLICKY for 'tactical'.. I prefer tactical forward lights that have twisty for constant ON, and forward switch for momentary light which does NOT click but I do NOT think twisty lights, if they are the sole method for activation, are tactical. And most people have agreed with me on that one, here. I hope that clears up the confusion of my grandmar misunderstanding. Cherio


    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop View Post
    Yes Surefire makes some of the best as well as Wolf-Eyes, Pelican, Stinger, Pila, Tiger-Light and yes even the tried and true Mag-Charger.
    Hello Robocop, I'm with you!
    Yes, Surefire and Pelican does make Tactical lights and I'm sure Maglights can be 'tactical' in some situations... if one defines using it as a club. Lol, however I've yet to witness my SWAT buddies carry Mags, since they claim it's too heavy and it doesn't provide a momentary ON capability without accidently activating constant on. However, I do agree with you on the Surefires and Pelican being tactical, however I must caution that not ALL Surefires are built for SWAT teams.. eg the TITAN.

  8. #128
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    I am not a fan of CLICKY for 'tactical'.. I prefer tactical forward lights that have twisty for constant ON, and forward switch for momentary light which does NOT click but I do NOT think twisty lights, if they are the sole method for activation, are tactical. And most people have agreed with me on that one, here. I hope that clears up the confusion of my grandmar misunderstanding.
    How many tactical entries have you made? Any? At all? No, I haven't either, so I will listen to people who have.

    Did you read Robocops first paragraph in the post right above yours where he not only states that he HAS made tactical entries, but also states that noise from a clickie has never been an issue?

    I think we ought to leave what is acceptable in that situation to people who have actually BEEN in that situation.

    NRA Life Member since 1979

  9. #129

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLip View Post
    How many tactical entries have you made? Any? At all? No, I haven't either, so I will listen to people who have.
    Me too, Mikelip, I've also listened to people I've know who have made tactical entries and have conducted tactical operations. I'm NOT saying a CLICKY-CLACKY, switch will 100% give away someone's position.. they can be lucky and get away with it, but it's certainly a risk. For this reason, that's also why you don't see full twisty flashlights used on SWAT teams or by FBI special agents..... because it would be a pain to use it for momentary light - most likely require both hands.

  10. #130
    Flashaholic* 4sevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    I usually don't like to participate in threads like this. But in an effort
    to make things clearer about the nature of this thread I did a little ground
    work and tallyed the various types of posts made here. As of now there
    are 129 posts and of those...

    25 posts were made by xiao
    67 posts were controversy related to and/or challenging the validity of OP's claims and statements including xiaos rebuttals
    60 posts actually contributed to something towards OP
    60 posts were off topic or are jokes

    xiao, you repeatedly say "most people agree," most people prefer"
    I don't think based on the statistics in this thread that you can say
    that. At least not CPF
    Last edited by 4sevens; 11-21-2007 at 07:57 AM.

  11. #131

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4sevens View Post
    25 posts were made by xiao
    67 posts were controversy related challenging the validity of OP's claims
    Once again, another poster has drifted off the topic. What good does it do, to say that I've made the most post; after all, I think it's helpful that the OP contributes as much as possible to the topic, since they're the one who started it.

    And you mention this so called 'controversy' made by other members, well to that I have to say... there's no such a thing, only opinions and viewpoints, and every poster is entitled to them, however subjective they may be. When I say 'most people prefer', that is from my own personal experience with my friends in real life, which I'm sharing with other flashoholics, here.. Anways, thank you, for understanding, and I hope to get back on topic very soon!
    Last edited by xiaowenzu; 11-21-2007 at 07:52 AM.

  12. #132
    Flashaholic* MikeLip's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4sevens View Post
    I usually don't like to participate in threads like this. But in an effort
    to make things clearer about the nature of this thread I did a little ground
    work and tallyed the various types of posts made here. As of now there
    are 129 posts and of those...
    <snip>
    So? I don't agree with the original poster and think he's completely wrong about more or less everything he says (Well, ok, not everything. He gets his name right ). But the thread has been fun reading, unlike some.

    NRA Life Member since 1979

  13. #133
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    Marduke, I thought I was already clear about it, and I thought you were told to keep this thread discussion on topic., but instead you still keep repeating what I've said. Please know, I always mean what I say and say what I mean:

    I am not a fan of CLICKY for 'tactical'.. I prefer tactical forward lights that have twisty for constant ON, and forward switch for momentary light which does NOT click but I do NOT think twisty lights, if they are the sole method for activation, are tactical. And most people have agreed with me on that one, here. I hope that clears up the confusion of my grandmar misunderstanding. Cherio
    As quoted above, in the past you have touted a forward clickie as the ONLY solution for tactical, including your own pseudo-tactical uses for a bump-in-the-night light. Since your have swapped your viewpoint to create this thread, one can only assume it was to create conflict.

  14. #134
    Flashaholic* WadeF's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    Quote Originally Posted by xiaowenzu View Post
    When I say 'most people prefer', that is from my own personal experience with my friends in real life, which I'm sharing with other flashoholics, here.
    This is part of the problem, you often say "most people prefer" when you really mean to say "Myself and my circle of friends prefer". You and your circle of friends ARE NOT MOST PEOPLE.

    Most of the people in the topic do not agree with you and your views. It's perfectly fine if you want to define a tactical light the way you like, but don't try and push your views on everyone else by saying your views are what most people think.

    It's fine to have your own opinions, but when you take your opinions and try to make them sound like facts and what the majority of people believe, that's when you're going to annoy people.
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  15. #135

    Default Re: What's the meaning of "Tactical LED Light"?

    I was doing some live fire training at night. We were shooting at metal plates in and around a junked car. Everybody had their little 2 battery tactical lights and would shoot the plates they could see--which were at the car.

    Some of the plates and "pepper poppers", however were a few yards from the car, probably no further than 25 yards from our shooting positions prone under the doors of two police cars. Those black metal silhouettes just stood there until I turned my Wolf Eyes Boxer 24 Watt High Intensity Discharge on them. The light, constant on of course, laid on the ground next to me while I shot two handed from the prone. Now, shooters could SEE the additional threats and knock them down. The dust kicked up by the gunfire, combined with the black painted targets on a dark range made them impossible to see with standard "tactical" lights.

    One commercial pilot (Armed Flight Deck Officer) asked me about this light. Maybe, in a worst case scenario, he may have to see and shoot down the length of a 747 aisle in a pitch black cabin at bad guys wearing black and hiding behind seats and other passengers. I hope not, though.

    I can't stress enough that the mission determines tactics and tactics determine which gear is needed. "The gunfight won't be what you want it to be, it will be what it is."--not sure, probably Scott Reitz.

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