Old truck..Square head lights.. But I want HID..

I got a 1985 Dodge ram 100 custom..

I wanna put a cheap set of HID's in it..

But.. as always I got a few questions..

1:Is there a legal limit on the color temp of bulbs?

2: When I get a sealed beam conversion kit, what type of HID bulb will I have to get to fit it..? (H3, H4, H7..ect?)

3:Will HID'S do Hi/low beams in one like my current headlights...?

4:Is 35 watts the max for HID's

Thanks, and happy thanksgiving incase I don't get online in the next few days!!

All of the sealed beam conversions I've seen use an H4 lamp. You will lose your high beams with the cheaper HID kits unless your vehicle has separate high-beam sealed beams. The more expensive HID kits have a motorized reflector so you still have a sort-of high beam with the HIDs.

This conversion will not be road legal anywhere in the U.S. Having said that, I did try a sealed beam conversion with a Phillips HID kit in my '75 Chevy van using Hella housings. The beam pattern was awful, just awful. The hot spots in the pattern were so hot I'd go snowblind.

scott.cr said:

The beam pattern was awful, just awful. The hot spots in the pattern were so hot I'd go snowblind.

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Well what if i used a different housing, or one with a more diffused pattern.

Also what about just getting a sealed beam HID look alike... I'm happy with the output I just want a cooler (not yellow) type of light...

I seen some at walmmart that said they were simulated HID...?

thanks

"Cheap" and "HID" do not go well together.

"HID kits" in H4 (or other halogen-bulb) lens/reflector housings do not work safely or effectively, which is why they are illegal, see here.

See this whole thread for discussion of the HID headlamps on the market in the 200mm x 142mm rectangular format used by your '85 Dodge pickup (and also used by my '89 Dodge pickup, which has had at least a dozen significantly different lighting configurations during my ownership).

What's your goal? Having HID headlamps (regardless of beam performance)? Or seeing better at night? A lot of people say "I want HIDs" when what they mean is "I can't see at night".

fire-stick said:

Also what about just getting a sealed beam HID look alike... I'm happy with the output I just want a cooler (not yellow) type of light...

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Your lights are brownish in color because you're running old low-efficacy sealed beams and there's a ton of voltage drop in the headlamp wiring. If you were to do nothing but upgrade the headlamp circuit so all the power doesn't go through ridiculously small-gauge wires from the battery clear back to the firewall, through the firewall to the headlamp switch, through tiny contacts in the headlamp switch, across to the steering column, up the steering column, through tiny contacts in the beam selector switch, down the steering column, back through the firewall, and all the way forward to the headlamps, even the existing sealed beams would run significantly whiter.

Putting in "extra white" bulbs or sealed beams means you will lose a great deal of output just to have a "cooler" appearance. Not a very "bright" idea. See this thread for more details.

Unfortunately, for retrofitting into standard housings for road use, illegal and inconsiderate are two words that come to mind, and Scheinwerfermann mentioned they're dangerous as well, for yourself and other road users. If you're only using it off road that's a different story.

There must be some great halogen options for Dodge Rams, and you'd have less trouble fitting them. And throw on some auxilary lights for extra high beam.

OK, the heck with doin that HID conversion.... I just assumed that since a "company" was selling it, it would be safe/legal, but I guess this wasn't the case.. (I seen the video, that was insane..!) Thanks for the heads up, and potentially keeping me from being arrested/hurt/and an aid to someone else's accident due to being blinden by my cheapo "HID" light canon...

Also, what about getting the H4 conversion housing and just using a quality 55W bulb, like a Sylvania Silverstar (???..)... is that legal/safe...?

Also what's the wattage limit on aux. lights...?

thanks

If I were getting brighter headlight bulbs I'd probably go for 100W/55W, on relays of course, rather than go all out on 130W/90W. I figure that extra brightness on low beam isn't really needed and is inconsiderate (and maybe dangerous) to other road users. My brother had 90W low beams once and he kept on dazzling other road users when he went over bumps, or when he was stopped at lights on a slope. He took to turning them off and having just park lights on while at one particular intersection.

On high beam, though, I figure the more light the better, since I'm not using them where others are going to be dazzled. In my country we're allowed to have a maximum of four lights, which basically means headlights and a pair of driving lights. There's no limit on power, just as long as they are the same as each other and other road users aren't dazzled. I went for 130W bulbs in the driving lights on my last car but haven't bothered with extra lights with my present car because the stock headlights are so good.

You'll want to shop carefully and ask questions of whatever vendor(s) you choose to contact. There are a bunch of H4 units in the large rectangular size format, and even among the ones made by reputable European companies, there's a wide range of performance. Stay away from the no-name junk on and off eBay. Names to home in on are Cibie, Hella, Bosch. Tons of options on bulbs...Sylvania Silverstars are a bad choice, see the thread I previously linked to above. Even within uncolored-glass bulbs there are a bunch of options. Which ones to pick depends largely on how you use your truck, whether it's lifted, which headlight housings you get, whether you install relays and heavy-gauge wiring for the headlamps (you definitely should), etc.

Scheinwerfermann said:

You'll want to shop carefully and ask questions of whatever vendor(s) you choose to contact. There are a bunch of H4 units in the large rectangular size format, and even among the ones made by reputable European companies, there's a wide range of performance. Stay away from the no-name junk on and off eBay. Names to home in on are Cibie, Hella, Bosch.

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Scheinwerfermann got it right with his post.
Current lights are a lot better.Most if not all of the US regulation headlights from 1990 and older,
be it factory or aftermarket flat out SUCK!!!

About 5 years ago I tried a couple no name ones from a ricer boy shop.They were only slightly better than stock.I figured it must be the bulbs so I replaced them with PIAA blue bulbs.
I thought they were also crap. So they have a blue tint like HID's big F'n deal.
It's not easy on the eyes.

I then purchased a Hella European conversion kit with Osram 55/60 watt bulbs.It was better but it seemed like they didn't offer much lighting to the side.The color was white again which I liked.
But when I finally had the low beams where I wanted them the high beam was way too far up in the air.

I then purchased a set of Cibie European Code lenses and installed the same 55/60 watt bulbs.
What a difference. I won't be going back anytime soon.I do wish there was slightly more side vision for road signs but it's not too bad.

I don't think the E-Code (European) lenses are legal here in the US.
But I don't think there is a legal US replacement lense that can offer the visibility they do.The key is the lense pattern and staying away from tinted bulbs.

I've never been pulled over for my lights being too bright.When adjusted correctly I only get an occasional flash of brights from someone who doesn't like them.But I even got that from some people when I had the stock lights.
They should have been handing out cane and dog with those.

This is the place I purchased everything.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html

Also as you can see there are many links and info on that site.

If you get flashed at all, it's likely your lights aren't aimed correctly. E-codes put out less glare than DOT headlights...but any headlight that is aimed too high will cause glare. There's a detailed aiming instructions page on the Daniel Stern website (in the "tech" section)...E-code lights get aimed to an angle that depends on how high above the ground the lights are mounted.

What Scheinwerfermann said. Granted a truck's headlights are much higher, but I have Euro beam headlights and 100/130w bulbs in my MR2. No one flashes their lights at me.

Drove a friend's Dodge Intrepid a couple weeks ago. I don't know how he accepts that, my turn signals are brighter than his headlights.

:buddies:

I live in Alaska where its dark an awful long time in the winter, plus we must drive in terrible conditions while looking out for moose and such, so basically most of us up here say be dammed with the laws and we do as we please, most every truck has at least one pair of Lightforce driving lamps and the big rigs have a dozen! My self I drive with 6 HID lamps on until I am near traffic then I turn off only 2. Check Ebay for a Hella lamp housing and go HID, don't worry about using an H4 cause they are pricey, just a pair of 4200K or up to 6000K single filament is all you need.

And just in case you did not know the lower the K number the more lumens, I use 4300K for my main headlamps and 5000K for all the others, those purple ones are at best good for snow conditions cause they have minimal glare against blowing snow.

If you still want high beams get a pair of Lightforce lamps with 100watt halogens or convert to HID.

And fear not the light police here, also yes you can get pumped up ballasts but the tradeoff is a shorter bulb life.

Daniel Ramsey said:

most of us up here say be dammed with the laws and we do as we please

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Which is completely understandable, but — sorry to be blunt — most people don't know enough about lighting to make smart choices that maintain or improve safety (their own as well as the safety of those they share the road with).

go HID, don't worry about using an H4 cause they are pricey, just a pair of 4200K or up to 6000K single filament is all you need.

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This is not good advice. "HID kits" are illegal for a very good reason: They don't work safely or effectively. See here for detailed information.

the lower the K number the more lumens

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That is correct.

purple ones are at best good for snow conditions cause they have minimal glare against blowing snow.

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This is not correct. In fact, it is the opposite of correct.

Daniel Ramsey said:

those purple ones are at best good for snow conditions cause they have minimal glare against blowing snow.

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How do you figure that? Purple light is the most easily scattered, which is why foglights are traditionally yellow (for example).

TorchBoy said:

How do you figure that? Purple light is the most easily scattered, which is why foglights are traditionally yellow (for example).

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Kinda sorta, but not quite — the scatter and lack of focus with blue/violet light is primarily due to the interaction of light with the human eye rather than the interaction of light with whatever's filling up the air (rain, fog, snow, etc.). The human eye is poorly equipped to deal with blue-to-violet light. The proof is as close as the nearest dark blue lights at night. Self-lit dark blue or violet retail store signs in stripmalls at night, or blue airport runway lights at night....look at them sometime, and notice how they appear blurry at the edges unless you squint and strain to see the edges sharply. Adjacent signs and lights of other colors (green, red, yellow, amber, etc.) don't appear blurry. It's because different wavelengths are diffracted differently through our eyes' optics, and blue-to-violet wavelengths focus ahead of the retina instead of on the retina.

The common explanation that blue light scatters upon hitting rain/fog/snow is not correct. This is a description of Rayleigh Scattering, which only takes place when the interfering particles are equal or smaller in diameter to the wavelength of the light passing through them. The finest particles we encounter while driving are fog particles, and even those are significantly larger than even the longest wavelength of light incident upon them. So, no Rayleigh Scattering when driving through fog (and certainly not through rain or snow, which consists of particles considerably larger than fog).

In any event, the "why/how" notwithstanding, you are correct and Mr. Ramsey is not. Blue/purple is definitely not the right kind of light for driving through fog, snow, or rain. It's a matter of fact, not opinion (though certainly there's nothing to stop people holding opinions that aren't and cannot be supported by fact).

OK, I don't have a good causal link there. I'll try again...

Violet light is the most easily scattered, which combined with the way our eyes work is why we see the sky as blue (rather than violet). Also (as a separate issue) our eyes don't focus blue light well, so in poor conditions, yellow foglights make it easier to see things.

Simplifications aside, does that stand up better? :sweat:

:thumbsup: