What's the fascination with 123 cell flashlights?

CR123A cells don't offer any more capacity than AA cells, in fact less even. They are much more expensive and less available. What's the fascination? Same thing with CR2 cells.

All my lites / devices run on AA... Usually NiNH but can also run on Lithium/alkaline.

Shorter form size for EDC style lights perhaps.

etc said:

CR123A cells don't offer any more capacity than AA cells, in fact less even. They are much more expensive and less available. What's the fascination? Same thing with CR2 cells.

All my lites / devices run on AA... Usually NiNH but can also run on Lithium/alkaline.

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It's not just mAh capacity, but they drive the miliamps at twice the voltage, or more. Alkalines sag under heavy load much more than lithiums do.

Until recently power LEDs were not efficient enough to run well on one AA and still be bright. So you had to sacrifice small size, or have seriously short run times with an AA.

I do think that in the future more good lights will be made around AA cells, and that is a good trend IMHO. The Lithium AA cells are great, for primaries, and the LSD NiMH cells are great for rechargables.

Also the lithium batteries are light weight for their size and they can sit in your flashlight unused for eight years or more and work almost as well as they would have the day they were purchased. Try that with an alkaline.

But almost everything you can get with CR123's, you can get with e2 AA and AAA lithium primaries for the same cost or less, and still have the NiMH and alkaline options available if needed or desired.

In the end though, I totally understand the form factor preference for some people. Also, there is the issue of a circuit being more efficient in a buck only setup over a boost setup.

To each their own, but I will always prefer the AA setup for it's greater versatility.

123 cells have higher power density, longer shelf life (10 years vs 3 for alkaline), lower voltage sag and lighter weight than AA cells. The only downside is the cost of each cell. I can get 6 AA alkalines for what I pay for one 123 cell. Economically speaking AA batteries are hard to beat as they are the most commonly used cells in nearly every application and they come in Lithium varieties of 1.7 volt, 3 volt and 3.7 volt flavors as well as alkaline and carbon acid (Titanium is not a flavor but a brand name put on high end alkalines by energizer). There are even 3.7 volt rechargeable AA batteries. For an EDC light I prefer a single 123 cell, but that's just me.

LED_Thrift said:

It's not just mAh capacity, but they drive the miliamps at twice the voltage, or more. Alkalines sag under heavy load much more than lithiums do.

Until recently power LEDs were not efficient enough to run well on one AA and still be bright. So you had to sacrifice small size, or have seriously short run times with an AA.

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CR123s use a Lithium / Manganese Dioxide (Li/MnO2 ) chemistry that runs at about 3 volts, and they do have higher energy density, surge current, and better low temperature performance than simple Alkaline batteries, but they are in no way surperior to the new L91 or L92 Lithium/Iron Disulfide 1.5 volt cells when total voltage and current capability is taken into account.

Though stubby CR123's do offer a shorter form factor than AA's, they are also fatter than AA cells, and it's hard to beat the tiny profile of AAA cells in small high performance lights like the Fenix L0D.

So with the advent of, Li/FeS2 cells like the Energizer L91 AA and L92 AAA batteries, it is no longer necessary to deal with CR123's or CR2's to get the power, size, weight, and low temperature performance of Lithium batteries.

These Energizer L91 AA and L92 AAA Lithium cells offer the same high power density, low weight and higher peak current capability as CR123, and also match their low temperature advantages, and so far at least, these batteries seem to have a better safety record compared to CR-123.

CR123 cells sometimes have problems when subjected to sustained high rate discharge and there have been quite a number of incidents with these cells either venting or outright exploding in flashlights, so potential users should search the relevant threads to understand the issues. Here is one to get started with:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124776

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I wonder if Surefire will ever make a AA flashlight. It seems to be wedded to 123 format.

I must confess that I have a few AA lights and a bag full of AA lithium and Alkaline batteries just in case of an emergency, but most of my EDC are RCR123A. After buying some rechargable 123s, I've grown to enjoy their use and to trust them under all situations. I initially got into the 123 size simply because the lights I wanted took only 123. Now, I'm convinced they're fine and trust them like the AA. The other day I was wondering how long I could last if I had to use my lights for 4 hours per day at a 2 foot reading light level and I figured out I have batteries for more than 2 years. That's a lot of light and because of the effeciency of today's lights, it's a smaller number of batteries than most would expect. I like em both AA and 123...

Ken

I'm looking at the Fenix t1 ... and I don't own any rc123 gear at all ... no charger, no batteries. That's what's holding me back at the moment, an unwillingness to invest in that form factor when I have AA coming out of my ying yang.

Really, in the end it's not that big of a deal ... I would probably edc a 123 light as they output more than a typical aaa light (although i'm looking at the lod q5 aaa light atm).

But to answer the question, it's been all said above.

Marduke said:

But almost everything you can get with CR123's, you can get with e2 AA and AAA lithium primaries for the same cost or less, and still have the NiMH and alkaline options available if needed or desired.

In the end though, I totally understand the form factor preference for some people. Also, there is the issue of a circuit being more efficient in a buck only setup over a boost setup.

To each their own, but I will always prefer the AA setup for it's greater versatility.

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Where can you get E2 AA's for less than $1 each? I can buy CR123's for $1 each, but at least around here E2 AA's are much higher than that.

no real fascination here...frankly I'm scared of it...but until surefire makes non cr123A lights its just going to be something I have to deal with

CR123's have been around longer then Lithium AA's. As such, the early Surefires and other "tactical" lights were all CR123. That creatd the general perception that high-end or tactical lights employed CR123 cells, and thus the current fascination with CR123 cell lights. Few manufacturers want to try to sell a high-dollar AA light because people can't pretend they're on a SWAT team unless it's a CR123 light.

I've gone pretty much AA (Hybrid/Eneloop/Kodak) LSD cell EDC.

I won't USE 123 lights very much because it's way too much hassle for me to get more. If the light will take it, I use 17500 or 18650 (all I have are two of each) or RCR-123 (Juice or Ultralast).

All that said, I have one or two 123 lights on the way from DX.

My view...

I try really hard to stick with the standard-batteries, but CR123A does provide a very nice form factor. Simply a lot of nice lights use these cells right now and the cells when purchased on-line are fairly reasonable or you can use rechargables. I find it easier to get the form factor I want in a CR123A light.

I'm using a lithium AAA in my L0D, but I almost always have a P1D(LiFoP4 123 cell) with me as well. Often I have other lights, and very often they would be CR123A lights. A CR123A cell is very standrd now, but the price is still too high at the local stores.

I find 2AA lights just a bit big to pocket much of the time. One reason I really like the FlashCrazy P4-modded LedLenser, is that it uses standard AAA cells and the resulting light is a great performer with a nice form-factor.

For rechargeable I'm trying to standardize on 18650, they have a high energy density as well as high total energy capacity. The Lithium-ion chemistry just works so much better than NiCd or NiMh technology. This is a great cell.

I had pretty much given up on NiMh cells for my usage, but I decided to try Eneloops. Too early to report, and I don't have any in a frequently used light yet. Trying them in a variety of devices though.

As the LEDs get more efficient, the Lithium AA and AAA cells become more economical, and more widely available, we will start to see some great single cell AA lights again. Maybe even a tripple cell AA light that is a barn-burner.

123 lithium: 1.4 ah x 3.0 v = 4.2 watt-hours
AA lithium: 2.9 ah x 1.5 v = 4.35 watt-hours

123 lithium ion: 0.9 ah x 3.7 v = 3.33 watt-hours
AA NiMh: 2.7 ah x 1.2 v = 3.24 watt-hours

123 volume = 2.3 cubic cm
AA volume = 2.4 cubic cm

For both disposable and rechargeable batteries, there seems to be very little difference in energy to size ratios. The cheapest electricity per dollar ratio goes to NiMh AA's, which cost less than half that of lithium-ion 123's, PLUS no explosions. AA batteries are by far the most widely used battery on earth and you can buy them in the most remote corners of the civilized world.

ChadPhelps said:

Where can you get E2 AA's for less than $1 each? I can buy CR123's for $1 each, but at least around here E2 AA's are much higher than that.

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I can get 12 packs of e2 AA's and AAA's for $1.67 per cell at SamsClub, which is about the cheapest you can get name brand and/or quality CR123 cells before you even start to consider shipping costs.

frank777 said:

123 lithium: 1.4 ah x 3.0 v = 4.2 watt-hours
AA lithium: 2.9 ah x 1.5 v = 4.35 watt-hours

123 lithium ion: 0.9 ah x 3.7 v = 3.33 watt-hours
AA NiMh: 2.7 ah x 1.2 v = 3.24 watt-hours

123 volume = 6.9 cm squared
AA volume = 7.7 cm squared

For both disposable and rechargeable batteries, there seems to be very little difference in energy to weight ratios. The cheapest electricity per dollar ratio goes to NiMh AA's, which cost less than half that of lithium-ion 123's, PLUS no explosions. AA batteries are by far the most widely used battery on earth and you can buy them in the most remote corners of the civilized world.

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Think of those RCR123, 3.6-4.2 volts, as maybe having 600mAh rating, mostly less.

RCR123= 0.600 ah x 3.7v= 2.22 wh

You could argue that we should be using 4.2 starting voltage for the RCR123, and 3.2 volts for a CR123. Also we can up the voltage of NiMh's to approximately 1.3 volts and still be fair.

Bill

I have become more interested in CR123 lights now that the Seoul, Cree, and Rebels are out. You can now get plenty of light with good runtime with single CR123 lights set to 200-500mA's to the led. These more efficient leds are of course making 2XNiMh AA or AA lights more popular too, as well as single NiMh battery lights.

Bill

Bullzeyebill said:

Think of those RCR123, 3.6-4.2 volts, as maybe having 600mAh rating, mostly less.

RCR123= 0.600 ah x 3.7v= 2.22 wh

You could argue that we should be using 4.2 starting voltage for the RCR123, and 3.2 volts for a CR123. Also we can up the voltage of NiMh's to approximately 1.3 volts and still be fair.

Bill

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Actually, I think you mean R123 (3.7V) not RCR123 (3.0V) rechargeables