so you're selling your house:

James S

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you already have a contract for a new house and are closing in 2 months, it's a huge buyers market with so many houses on the market and nobody buying anything in the area.

Someone makes you an offer that is lower than you would like to sell it for do you:

a: make a counter offer to see if they can come up and negotiate

b: laugh at the signed paperwork in your hand and refuse to even respond.

I'm thinking that perhaps I dont want to buy the house from this person since they couldn't even be bothered to make a counter offer. How hard is it to tell your agent to put down a price and send the paper work back. Why would you blow off the ONLY offer that has been made on your house in the last 60 days when the clock is ticking on your ending up with 2 mortgages?

I dont actually HAVE to move, but this was a pretty sweet house at a good price. But you have to make a low first offer. Nobody ever accepts a first offer do they? Is there something I dont understand about selling a house even though I've done it several times myself...

It's good really, we weren't really looking to move when we were pointed to this house by a friend who thought it would be good. So we can either go to some open houses and make another offer in a month when his house is still on the market (which it will be probably as nothing is selling) and he's that much closer to his new closing.

The point to take home here people is when selling a house there is no offer that is "insulting", you ALWAYS make a counter offer. You can't expect the other guy to give you what you're asking unless you're in one of those insane markets which are rare and unusual circumstances. So at what point do you not even bother to counter? How can he possibly tell what I would have agreed to if he doesn't even try?

I just think it's so funny, he could have had it all sold and all the stress off him by Christmas. I would have negotiated. I would not have had any contingencies for a loan or for selling my own place as I've wrapped those issues up. I would have come up considerably in price probably to a point he would have been happy with, I just wasn't wiling to start there and then go up further.

I fear that he's getting some bad advise from his real estate agent... We have kids not too far apart in school together as we're in the same neighborhood. I can't wait to run into the guy a year from now and mention how we would have bought it if he had bothered to respond :D
 

raggie33

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i wouldnt sell a house right now for no reason id wait to the second quarter of 2008.the market will be a lot better
 

James S

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The way I see it raggie is you can sell now and pay less or sell later for more and pay more.

Yes, that is a good point. If you're moving just across town like we were going to then you're in the same market for good or bad on both sides. But if you're moving to another city or a different part of the same city then it could be either good or bad for you depending.

Is it even legal to not even respond to an offer? I thought this started to get into the anti-discrimination stuff. If we simply cannot come to an agreement on the price then we can both sign off on the contract and walk away. But you have to negotiate with me or I might claim that you were refusing to sell to me because of my color/creed/religion/height whatever. I know for a fact that I could not have done this legally in other states where I've sold houses. It was very clear in the paperwork that you had to negotiate in good faith. Part of the point of requirements that it all be on paper and not just over the phone or in person is so that you don't know much about the other person that would let you discriminate even if you wanted to.
 

raggie33

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i sure wish i had money right now id buy. i have a friend who is a agent in real estate he told me about some deals that just made my jaw drop.
 

Beamhead

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My understanding is that the seller makes their offer in the listed price, they are not obligated to accept or respond to even a higher offer. Most agents won't let it happen easily though and may drop a stubborn seller.

And if you plan to move to a less expensive part of the world the market being up or down across the board is still a wash in most cases.
 

Chronos

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LOL. Yes, I'm selling a house. I'm relocating due to a new job. Since I don't have an offer on another house I'm in a different position. Plus, my new firm is flexible regarding relo dates.

Is there such a thing as an insulting offer? Hmmm. Yes. If someone were to come in with a low-ball offer, I may counter. However, is it worth the hassle, as the potential purchaser may very well be a bottom feeder? Have problems qualifying? Have the funds to close? How much is the earnest money deposit? If I'm not presented with a nice, clear picture of the purchaser's financial health, I may very well walk away.

There is a lot more to this IMHO.

Did the seller have a picture of your financial health? How much was disclosed? If I knew of your apparent strength, I probably would have countered with an offer. Why not? If I didn't, I might not.

Fun times, eh? :)
 

James S

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it's just funny ;) But it is motivating me to look at more properties, perhaps the perfect one will show up ;)

What would you consider a low ball offer for starting? In the past people generally hit me with about 20% off the asking price as a starting point. I started at a little less than 18% off their asking as a starting place. Not too out of the question is it?

As far as ernest money I put up $5k cash. And if they had worried about that they could have asked for more. The paperwork said I had my financing all wrapped up which we do. Just hard to see where the insult is in that!
 

raggie33

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my dad has offered people like 50 percent before all they can do is say no.hell he is crazy at this stuff.the house i wanted i could of got for like 89k it was on a acre a ranch and far away from people which i like.think they said it sold for like 174k a few years ago
 

Diesel_Bomber

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I'd crunch some numbers WRT mortgage/interest paid vs. increase in value in the future, but generally agree w/ Raggie. I probably wouldn't sell at all right now. If that's not an option, then absolutely make a counter offer. The worst they can do is say no, in which case you go ahead and accept their pre-existing offer. Maybe rent it out and let your tenant make the mortgage payment while you get the equity for near nothing.

Whatever you do, good luck. :buddies:

Edit: OOPS, read your whole post wrong, James! I thought you were the one selling that had only gotten one offer in 2 months. Never mind all my blather up there.
 
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James S

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thanks guys, I was really just looking for some justification and some "boy that ws foolish of them" sort of camaraderie ;) Cause i was ready to negotiate and had the cash to pay them a decent price. I just started with a lower than they wanted to sell number, cause I knew nobody accepts the first offer anyway!

Since we've had time now tothink more clearly, I think we'll just stay here a few more years and build a little more equity. You know that 30 cents you pay off against the principal every month really adds up ;)

If he had just bothered to counter we'd be on our second or third back and forth probably setup for a final signature the day after christmas, but he really blew it. I guess I understand that you dont want to even bother with some people, but if I wrote an offer and signed the contract and claimed to have financing all set then why wouldn't you at least respond? It seems strange and foolish to me especially in this market where selling is going to be so difficult. Like I said, I'm looking forward to running into him in a few months when he's been paying 2 mortgages for a while and mentioning that i would have bought it if he had just responded :D
 

Chronos

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They overextended themselves, no doubt. Foolish in any market.

I think that 18% isn't a low-ball offer. $5k earnest money would just cover a month's mortgage for my home, so that would be too low. So the earnest money would depend upon the price point you're looking for.

18% off asking, solidly qualified buyer, I would have countered. :)

For what it is worth, we're likely going to keep our house and rent it. We live in a higher-end area and there's a pretty healthy executive rental market here. A lot of researchers from NIH, local hospitals, and government and embassy staff too.
 

iced_theater

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When I bought my house, they accepted the first offer. It wasn't much less than asking price though at $205K versus 209K. But at the time, it was a seller's market and housing sold for 99% of asking price.

Now housing has slowed considerably, though 75% of the people are still asking outragous amounts, 25% are listing for a more reasonable price.
 

matrixshaman

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In this market the guy is insane not to jump on an 18% off offer. Unless the house is perfect and has the best appeal in every way he's nuts. Even if it is the best he will probably regret not countering once he realizes what kind of market is going on. On the other hand some people don't need to sell or have no real motivation to sell. Of course in that case why do they even have it up for sale in this market? I'd talk to his agent directly to see if you can get a feel for what was going on. Some agents can be the problem also - he might have told the seller that he can get more for the house (only because he wants more commission and does not want the market prices in his area to start backsliding). I would have been thrilled to sell the house that I sold recently for only 18% off asking.
 

gorn

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The market here in California seems to have bottomed out and is slowly recovering. I just moved into a new house last month. In the 6 months from the time I committed to buy it until it was built and I closed escrow I was able to negotiate the price down $100,000. It was good luck for me. Although I didn't have to sell my old house, that could have been ugly with the way the market was.

My feeling is, if you find a place you want now is the time to buy it.
 

cmacclel

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I just closed on my first house in March of this year. The Seller did the same thing to me. The Seller did not even counter offer.

Mac
 

gadget_lover

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To my mind, there is no problem wih making a low-ball offer, and nothing wrong with refusing to acknowledge it.

The "negotiate in good faith" comes into play if you are actually negotiating. If they are not responding to your offer there are no negotiations in play so there is no obligation.

I once offered 20% below asking price for a house because it was all I could afford, and had to force my Realtor into passing it on. She did not want to even approach the other agent. I later realized that passing on low offers will cause housing prices to drop, which cuts back on commissions for Realtors. In our area appraisers determine value by looking at what other homes sold for. As for the offer? It was flatly refused with no counter offer.

BTW, if you make a low-ball bid and there is no counteroffer, theres nothing stopping you from making a second bid.

Daniel
 

Max

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When we moved about a year and a half ago, our old apartment sat on the market with zero offers for about 9 excrutiating months while we paid double mortgages and let our credit card balances mount up.

Is there such a thing as an "insulting" offer? I think yes and no. First of all, the Realtor and the seller are expending time and money showing the house, so negotiating on offers that are never going to converge on agreement are a waste of time, and if your offer seems like a waste of time, then why bother?

Second, from a tactical point of view, it might be good strategy to at least give a good show of getting insulted if an offer is too low. Why? Because then your prospective buyers will be afraid to bid low lest you be insulted and refuse to deal with them further.

We know of somebody else in our old building who had the same apartment as ours on a different floor who initially accepted an offer, but then decided to ask for another $10K. The buyers got "insulted" and instead of saying no and maybe seeing if they can come back to terms on the price, walked and bought the apartment down the hall instead. The person who wanted to ask for the extra $10K would be lucky to get an offer now for $100K less than the price those buyers who walked were willing to pay.
 

turbodog

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You assue you know too much about their situation. We had the same thing happen to us, except we were on the other end from you.

Discrimination takes place when you have evidence of it. It takes place when there is a deal being negotiated and they find out you're black/gay/etc and then drop out of negotiation. It does NOT take place when you lowball them and they reject even dealing with you because of the low price. You set yourself up for that one.

You assume they have a mortgage.

If someone lowballed me with an offer of 18% below market price I would not even respond. You simply needed to offer a MUCH more reasonable figure and note that it's a firm offer. Also, you can sweeten the deal by trying to close on their terms.

If you were willing to increase you offer greatly, perhaps you blew it. Start at a higher number and don't go over your magic number. It's much more pleasant that way. What if they DID counter, but with an offer that was 18% above market price?

And no, sellers do not always reject the first offer. The first house we ever bought was accepted on the first offer. And a couple of houses we have sold were sold on the first offer.

To me it simply sounds as if you were fishing, hoping to scoop up a deal and profit from someone's assumed hard luck. They refused and you're looking for a justification from us, and revenge from when you see them later.
 

daveman

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i wouldnt sell a house right now for no reason id wait to the second quarter of 2008.the market will be a lot better
Depending on which market, but for the absolute majority of the U.S. market, real estate prices will continue to sag throughout the entire 2008. I don't want to burst anyone's hopes of unloading what they bought in 06 in 08 without taking a loss, but the chances of that happening is really slim, really really slim.
 
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