PayPal =

PayPal...man!

I've been waiting for a long time to purchase some particular excellent lights from another member. They let me know it was available today. I just spent 45 minutes trying to use PayPal to send them money.

First I got a "too much traffic" message.

Then I got two "we are shut down for maintenance" messages.

Then they wanted me to sign a new agreement.

Then I got timed out.

Then I got kicked out twice while almost having the transaction done.

Although I'm a rookie with PayPal, I don't think I proceeded with the process incorrectly.

On a Saturday? Please. They want to shut down to implement a new agreement policy? IDIOTS !!

It's a gorgeous day here and all them critters are wondering why I have chosen to stare at this blueish, 19" light I keep on my desk. Really. Them critters are laughing at me while watching other humans laugh at me. Them critters... Scampering around, having picnics and making dates for this afternoon, tonight and tomorrow.

Scr*w it!

I'm throwing Cheerios to the squirrels, whistling at the birds and snagging some happy ****d bass out of the river.

Rant over.

Really, fellers. The Arkansas River is so wild and wonderful this time of year; I wish you could all hang out with us this afternoon and tonight. Late this evening we'll stop by the Super Wally World on the way home and pick up a flashlight...Not because we want one, but because it will feel good.

I have been having same problems trying to order from Elektrolumens and Flashlightlens.

I was lucky, I got through moments before the site went down for maintenence today. Used the "Shop Anywhere" feature to buy A nice new book about Bill Clinton.

You must not have used your account recently, The new user agreeement has been in place for a few weeks.

Paypal is a problem. I only use them when the person selling has no other choice and I let them know that I'm not happy about it. I have not given them access to my checking account and I would advise anyone else not to either. If you make money by paypal don't leave it in your paypal account, or the checking account attached to it for any longer than you have to.

The danger is not that they are malicious or out to screw you, simply that they are now a huge company with virtually no staff and absolutely NO process for fixing mistakes and no interest in what you have to say.

Read This and then change you account information if you have to. I would consider giving them access to your daily use checking account a serious potential for pain.

yep, what james said and the fact they are anti-gun, like ebay, i will not give them a dime of my money.

i spent this morning opening a new checking acct so i can close my old one.

I have continuous problems with PayPal.

Just last week I sent a payment to a wrong email address and it went "Unclaimed". The seller then gave me a new email address and I cancelled the first payment.

Instead of reversing my unclaimed payment, PayPal put a "Temporary Hold" on my money for a week. No explanation.

They are a very scary bunch.

Marty

Paypal used to be an endless hassle for me. Particularly being in Canada it was even more vexing. I used to use Billpoint preferentially because they were so much easier to deal with. Unfortunately Ebay (who owned Billpoint) decided to buy Paypal and integrate it so they ditched Billpoint. This made me very unhappy and I complained to them about it via telephone, email, etc. I was pretty revved up and in hindsight I'm sure I was making a really clear and strongly articulated complaint.

I guess I somehow managed to stir the soup just right between Ebay, the transition team assigned to making the shift from Billpoint over to Paypal, the Paypal people, etc. and tada! - I got assigned an Account Manager.

This guy is outstanding, I really mean it. Paypal now has a face and a name when I'm dealing with them and I haven't had any trouble with them ever since.

To give you guys an idea of what Paypal can do when they want to, here's an edited version of the first email I got from my Paypal account manager:

----------------------
Dear Aaron,

I received a copy of your email to eBay in regards to your concern about
eBay's decision to rollback the Billpoint service and integrate PayPal as
the preferred payment system on eBay. Based on your history with eBay, I
have volunteered to assist you in anyway that I can with this transition.

To begin, I will be available to assist you with any of your service needs.


My name is: _______ __________
My Toll Free Number is: 1-888-215-5506 ext. ______
Your direct line to me is: 1-402-935-______
You can reach me best at: ___________
voicemail in the event I cannot be reached.
Account Management service hours are Monday-Friday 8am - 5pm CST.

We look forward to providing optimum and personalized service such as:

· Direct access to your account manager with voice messaging.
· One stop resolution for all account questions or concerns.
· One person to consistently handle your PayPal account needs.
· Advance notice of policy and site changes.

Again, we would like to welcome you to our Account Management program. We
believe this exclusive service will help you get the most out of PayPal and
maximize your success.

If you would like more information or clarification on any of the other
concern you have raised about the current PayPal System, please feel free
to contact me, I would be happy to assist you.

Sincerely,
________ ___________
__________
Account Manager
PayPal Business Development

--------------------

And so far this isn't just talk - this guy is really good.

So the lesson for today is that Paypal can do customer service if they want to.

A.

Wow, so if they hire another thousand of those guys all their problems will go away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Tell him hi from me.

Well, you get what you pay for and PayPal do seem to be the "cheapest" option...

What other realistic options are there? I'd love to hear more about them. I take payments for the shareware that I sell through Kagi I do plan to use them if I ever sell anything flashlight related, but they are more geared to people with products or services with fixed prices and not just random amounts of money switching back and forth.

I have literally never had a problem with Kagi and I have the same ability to dispute or charge anyway that any merchant taking credit cards has. It's a little more expensive, but worth it for my business. But it doesn't really work as a paypal replacement.

How about the option of linking PayPal to a "firewall" checking account--an account set up solely for the purpose of clearing PayPal transactions.

Well, I bought some stuff from CNC Dan, and used a somewhat radical method. You may want to sit down for this....

I wrote him a check, put it in an envelope, put a stamp on it, and put it in the mail. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Worked great!

Seriously, I've used pay pal once, and that was ok, but I'm now nervous about it. I'm restricting my purchasing to those who take VISA, checks, or money orders, and I won't use the former 2 unless I have a reference from someone I know.

Anyone use C2it, from CitiBank? It was free at first but I think they've started attaching fees to it. The one advantage, I suppose, is that CitiBank is actually a bank, and is accountable under all the existing banking regulations...

Well, this is a revolting development.

I've been running PayPal against A.E. as a buffer. If I want out completely I guess I should call A.E. and tell them not to accept any charges from PayPal.

Does that sound right?

This thread is disturbing enough but after reading James S's link,Read This I'm alarmed.

James S -

Interesting stuff you are doing there. I'll go back and check it out. Would you let me know how you are still able to use PayPal, either here or PM?

Marty -

Skiing squirrel? I'll bet he prefers Wheaties over Cheerios.

Wow! Judging by all of the Paypal bashing, I should consider myself lucky. Out of the five times I have used it, I've been sucessful with absolutely NO problems. Maybe I should stop now and use it as a last resort. I don't know....what do you think?

i used it well over 2 years, hundreds of times, with absolutely _no_ problems. then one day i got frozen for absolutely _no_ reason what-so-ever. at least i've only lost $50 from the deal, from what i've read on www.paypalsucks.com it could have been much worse.

IceBreak, Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The reason I'm able to use paypal still is that I haven't hit their 2 grand limit you can spend before they force you to give them access to your bank account. Since I don't take payments through them they don't require it until you've spend $2k.

I wouldn't worry about letting them have your CC number, with a regular credit card company you are mostly protected against large amounts anyway. You can call up and refuse to pay the charges and if they tried to charge to you incorrectly I would do that in a heartbeat. The problem is with the checking account where you have fewer recourses. Since they are unavailable for consultation you have little choice but to hire a lawyer or live with it.

Like I said, they are not out to get you, but mistakes happen and they have no decent process in place to adjudicate them. (Today's vocab word adjudicate /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) millions of transactions go off every day without a hitch, so you're not likely to get burned. And you're less likely to get burned buying something than selling something it sounds like to me. I would just recommend opening a separate checking account to give them access to. It is inexpensive, you don't even have to pay for checks if you don't want to, just transfer balances around. I just can't imagine anything worse than waking up to find out they had cleared out my most recent paycheck due to somebody elses mistake!

So there is no reason to panic, but when you get a chance, connect them to a buffer account and not your regular checking.

My PP account is A.E. driven but I'll bet you read and considered that. I'll do a buffer account like you said so I can continue doing business with sellers that prefer PayPal.

Thank you.

I have been using PayPal since the end of '99 or so, when I opened my eBay account. I have made hundreds of transactions myself and had no problems. I have bought and sold well over $12,000 of Arcade games and other items with PayPal.

I use two different accounts, one personal account to avoid fees when the buyer is NOT using a credit card, and one for most other transactions. I even have a PayPal MC Check (debit) Card. It all seems to even out pretty much. I pay my FedEx account and my eBay fees with the PayPal CC and get 1½% back on all that and also the same for any purchases with the PayPal acc't.

THE TRICK TO PAYPAL IS like everyone else said, get a cheap or no-fee checking account to use as a sort of buffer for your PayPal account. I don't keep more than $100 in the checking normally, and that's only b/c it's necessary to keep that much to avoid bank surcharges for a low balance.

The only time I had a problem with any of my eBay purchases was when I bought an item from an eBay user that had a less than perfect record (it was an armrest for my Freelander and I don't mind badmouthing the seller -- MyRover.tv) and I used a CC through PayPal to cover myself. It paid off. I got stiffed from the seller, so I called my CC company first. Then I contacted PayPal and let them know what was going on. No muss, no fuss, no charges or locked accounts.

You can't believe everything you read on some of the PayPal bashing sites. Sure, there are a few people whose accounts get locked temporarily for whatever reason, but usually it's for their protection and to prevent unauthorized use.

I'm not saying that PayPal is the best or endorse them openly, nor am I saying that it's right for everyone. PayPal is a tool for me, nothing else. I keep a very close eye on my account and make sure I don't have a big pool of cash just sitting there.

It's like anything else, usually you don't hear anything from the people who are satisfied, but you WILL hear from someone who had a bad experience.

Seems like this same PayPal stuff crops up here every two to three months, with the same things being said over and over. That's why I didn't bother posting again this time until now... Do a search so I don't have to re-type everything from before.

Personally, I have done thousands of PayPal transactions since 2-3 months after their inception with NO significant problems. It would probably be smart to take the precautions that James and others recommend, because it is possible to get caught in the gears of the PayPal machinery and be completely innocent of wrongdoing.

Don't put a lot of creedence in what you see at paypalsucks.com ; probably 10% is completely true, 40% much exaggerated and 50% of it almost certainly lies.

Ab- Your guy at PayPal wouldn't happen to be Damon would it?