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Thread: DEMOCRAT's at their zenith

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    has anybody been to democratic underground ? what a bunch of quacks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif[/img]

  2. #2
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    I have been now.
    I didn't make it through the first two sentences.
    Even that was way too much!

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    too bad you have to register...i would love to make a couple post [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    what weak minded imbeciles !!!

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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    hehehe I took a look at their top 100 idiots list - only made it through about the first 25 and saw about a dozen people I really like!

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    i can't find the top 100 idiots list [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    Scroll to the bottom of the first page, then go to the top ten conservative idiots page, at the bottom is a link to idiot archive, top one in that list.

    Or just click this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/03/100.html

  7. #7
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    thanks!

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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    I love the website, it's a graphic display of their feelings and intellect. I think it should be required viewing by all undecided voters in 2004. It has the potential to get the Republicans more votes than a Democrats memorial service turned into a pep-rally. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif[/img]

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    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    First and last time I need to go there! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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    Flashaholic* Silviron's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    I went there a few times before you had to be a member to post. I did manage to make a few succinct comments, but they changed to membership only posts only two or three days later. (Wonder if I had anything to do with that??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )

    It literally made me sick to my stomach to go there and see the depths of ignorance and pure hate that is the primary product of DU. Even the stuff coming from Al Queda or france isn't as disgusting.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    They have the gall to call Cheney a "humorless fool". I havn't met to many Democrats that WERE NOT humorless. That's why they can't come up with a television personality (a la O-Reilly or Rush) that anyone would voluntarily sit down and listen to more than once. They never get the jokes. Heck, they never get the fact that THEY ARE the jokes. Oppose the war to strengthen our enemies, then complete the total gun control agenda to remove our ability to defend ourselves. I wonder what that agenda is? - Lee

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    Flashaholic* pedalinbob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    i have read many of their posts...and i am still stunned at how violent some of them are. they dont express general dislike for Bush, they HATE him!

    i cant quote, but paraphrasing is something like this: "i would just punch the bastard. those conservatives really pi$$ me off..."
    jees. even though i wasnt fond of Clinton, i never hated the guy. arent libs supposed to be the "nice" party?

    insted of sticking to the issues, they seem to only be able to redicule the opposition. there are so few facts, and huge stretches of conjecture: a+b=Z!

    when someone with a logical opposing view posts on their forum, they are censored.

    buncha whiney-babies! cant handle a good debate.

    Bob

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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    Alas for democracy.

    Used to be the Republicans were against the Democrats, but they would grudgingly respect each other. But the Republican party and pro Republican press did their best to sow _hatred_ against Clintion, and the Democrats and the pro Democrat press are doing the same with Bush (not that this was the beginning; there ave always been groups who were opposed to the administration then in power to the point of hatred, but now it seems to be _everywhere_ all the time).

    I would have rather Gore been elected than Bush. I believe that he would have been a better president. (No, I'm not going to spend time debating the topic, that isn't the point that I'm trying to make.) But Bush is good enough that he got the support of about half of the country, and I am certain that on some points he is doing a better job (by the measure of things that I care about) than Gore would have done.

    Discourse and disagreement are an essential part of democracy. If we all agreed on everything, then we wouldn't need a democracy; we'd simply have a lottery and the loser would be supreme dictator for that week. Hating the 'other side' is a useless waste of time and emotion and lives. I do not agree with the 'Democratic Agenda', I agree even less with the 'Republican Agenda', and it is my job as a member of a democratic society to think about these issues and debate these issues, and to explicitly reject the dogma being spouted by both sides.

    -Jon

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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    Jonathan said:

    I would have rather Gore been elected than Bush.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Now we can start debating the usefulness of the Electoral college in todays modern world. According to the official government website, Gore did win the 2000 election. I used to think that democracy meant the person with the most votes wins, guess I'm wrong.

    http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* pedalinbob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    well stated, Johnathan.

    i guess what surprised me, again, was the outright hatred of the president, and republicans.

    the prez isnt perfect, but hate him? hate is a pretty powerful term. im sure there were conservatives that hated Clinton, but i havent seen much (any) of those statements. what i have seen are people refuting Clinton's policy, not him in general (go to americanconservatives.net--it is surprisingly without hate).

    however, people were upset over the Lewinsky fiasco, which was a personal part of Clinton's life...until he blatantly lied to us. then it became a public issue. i didnt care if he doinked Lewinsky--none of my business, as long as he ran the country well.


    im not slamming Clinton, or propping up Bush. i do believe that Bush has conducted himself in a more honorable manner than Clinton did.

    truly, im not really conservative or liberal. but the conservative side tends to reflect my own beliefs.
    i will support a liberal idea if it makes sense, and i will slam a conservative one if it doesnt make sense. if Bush goofs up, i will call him on it.

    a agree whole-heartedly that hating the other side is non-productive. we should simply scrutinize ALL sides with an open mind...easier said than done!

    take care,
    Bob

  17. #17
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    siriuslite said:
    ...snip... I used to think that democracy meant the person with the most votes wins, guess I'm wrong.

    http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep - Your wrong. The person who gets the most electoral votes wins. This was intentional on the part of the founding fathers

    You see, they realized there was a MAJOR problem with a pure "democratic" vote (and still is BTW)

    In a pure democratic vote, you can play one geographic section of the country off against all the rest. For instance, today, you would pretty much be able to win a "pure democratic" vote by promising everything to the cities, and saying "@#*^ the rural areas" You get all the votes in the cities, and you win. It allows you to play off a majority, and the folks in the minority have NO rights - the old problem of "In a democracy, 51% of the people can vote to kill the other 49%"

    The electoral congress was created to make sure that people in the smaller states would have at least SOME say in the government

    Thank God we live in a Republic, NOT a Democracy

    “(@#*^ the rural areas” edited by DieselDave. That was one of only about three words I view as inappropriate in an open forum [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )


  18. #18
    Flashaholic* treek13's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    KC2IXE said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    siriuslite said:
    ...snip... I used to think that democracy meant the person with the most votes wins, guess I'm wrong.

    http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep - Your wrong. The person who gets the most electoral votes wins. This was intentional on the part of the founding fathers...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I may add, both Gore and Bush should have known how the system works here in the US before the election. I was not a Bush supporter but I must say I get sick of Gore supporters mentioning the whole popular vote vs. electoral college thing. It wasn't some big secret or conspiracy; it was simply the way the election laws work here. No offense meant to anyone but people even trying to make the electoral college into a controversy almost makes me think voters should be required to pass a civics exam before being allowed to vote.

    Pat

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* pedalinbob's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    another thoughtful post!

    what burns me is when people state that Bush did not win the election--that he was "appointed" by the supreme court.

    hmmm. if my feeble memory serves, Bush won once. recount. Bush won again. Recount. Bush won again. (i cannot remember how many recounts there were--there were several, right?)

    the incident is put before the supreme court (who initiated this step?), who UPHOLDS the election results.

    so, let me get this straight: Bush wins three times, and is backed by the supreme court...but he was not elected?

    i just dont get the logic...

    Bob

  20. #20

    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    beemerphile said:Heck, they never get the fact that THEY ARE the jokes. Oppose the war to strengthen our enemies,

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Don't you think it's possible that they oppose war for reasons other than strengthening our enemies? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Honestly, this whole "dissent is unpatriotic" stuff I've been hearing lately is distasteful. I'm sorry, but if somebody believes that this - or any other - war is stupid, they have my full support to say something about it.

    This by the way, is a good way to tell whether you are in a free country or not. If you can freely criticize and argue the choices your government makes: Free country. If you can't: Not a Free country.

    I submit to you that people who suggest it's wrong to oppose this opinion or that are either unfamiliar with what a free country is, or would do best not living in one.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    Not sure what you're arguing about Brotherscrim. People have all kinds of concerns why they oppose the war. I have yet to see anyone in the US stopped from sharing their opinion about it.

    I don't know where you live, but I've seen people opposed to the war burning flags. That is distasteful to me in the extreme, but they can do it because it is a Free country. People have just as much of right to voice their opinion dissent is 'unpatriotic' as those that don't. I guess maybe now I'm a little argumentative. Sorry.

  22. #22
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    The thing that pisses me off the most about the "dissenters" is that they are protesting the wrong things. Their dissent is based on ignorance and/or a complete lack of knowledge of the facts. I read this crap over on DU and even *I* can totally destroy 3/4 of their arguments simply because they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

    And what does burning the flag have to do with disapproving of government policy?!?!? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ... That's what gets me! I don't believe that these people are unpatriotic... they're just ignorant and closed-minded. And unfortunately, that's legal in this country too... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img]

  23. #23

    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    I was referring to beemerphile's suggestion that Democrats oppose the war to strengthen our enemies, like that's their goal. It's a silly statement that I don't think even he believes.

    I agree that people have a right to their opinion, but I have a hard time seeing the understanding of what a free country means in those who say dissent isn't patriotic.

    Whether you think them right or wrong, dissentors are freedom.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    Not trying to start a sparing match. I completely agree on the freedom part. I also agree with Sasha and it makes me absolutely sick to read, hear, and see some of my fellow citizen's behavior. I also understand many of them feel the same way towards the US Government.

    I don't think their freedom should be taken away because I disagree with them. The behavior, name calling, and seemingly at times ignorance of a few makes me upset though. Just exercising my own freedom.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    pedalinbob said:

    hmmm. if my feeble memory serves, Bush won once. recount. Bush won again. Recount. Bush won again. (i cannot remember how many recounts there were--there were several, right?)

    Bob

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As I recall, there were several counts that were _stopped_ by various courts.

    But it is pretty clear that _both_ sides were playing their little games. The Gore camp only wanted recounts in a subset of the Florida counties, and a court stopped that recount and said that you would have to recount in _all_ counties. But by the time this decision was handed down, it was too late to count everywere.

    I recall a news story that basically said 'If you did the recount the way that the Gore camp wanted, Bush would have won. If you did the recount the way the Bush camp wanted, Gore would have won.' I don't know if this was true or not, but it speaks to the point that the election was close enough that we don't really know who should have won the 'platonic ideal election. Various courts made their decisions, which pushed the result in one direction or the other, but that power of decision could have only happened in the context of Americans voting as they did.

    To bring this back to the topic of Freedom and Protest and Democracy, I'd suggest to everyone that rather than grousing about what should have happened in the last election, they instead educate themselves about their local voting systems, and _demand_ good ones.

    The punch card voting systems that resulted in all of the 'hanging chad' 'pregnant chad' 'butterfly ballot' etc. have got to go. They are tools for making a measurement (the votes of the American population.), and they are simply too prone to error.

    But the replacements must be scrutinized _very_ carefully. Any replacement _must_ provide a human readable ballot that can be audited. Some of the electronic voting systems that are being brought online not only don't provide a paper audit trail, their source code is proprietary, so that the election commission can't even check to see if the machinery is built correctly.

    Call up your local election commission. Find out what voting systems they use, and what they plan on using. Ask about auditing. Is it built into the machine? Or, if push comes to shove, is a manual recount of human readable ballots even possible?

    Democracy is too precious to take for granted. It needs to be fought for, sometimes with weapons, but more often with words.

    -Jon

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    the whole gore/bush election fiasco really shows how god can do miracles [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    Brotherscrim said:
    I was referring to beemerphile's suggestion that Democrats oppose the war to strengthen our enemies, like that's their goal. It's a silly statement that I don't think even he believes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My point is more that they are frickin' clueless to the outcome that will accrue from their chosen direction. Just as they may honestly think that gun control reduces crime, they may think that placating a terrorist will make them safer. Then again, the future outcomes are so obvious that sometimes I have trouble giving them credit for good intentions. - Lee

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* treek13's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    Sasha,

    A lot of people who are favoring the war are doing it out of ignorance and/or a complete lack of knowledge of the facts, too. I guess my point is that it is easy to dismiss a group's opinion like this but I don't think it is really very helpful for anyone.

    Pat

  29. #29
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    With regard to the election, we simply do not know what the outcome would have been if they had both competed for the popular vote. This is because Bush, for instance, did not waste his time campaigning in say NYC. He knew he would not win NY state, but if he was going for the popular vote, he could have done so and gained more popular votes.

    As said above, they both knew the rules going in, and they campaigned (competed) fair and square.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* NightStorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: DEMOCRAT\'s at their zenith

    [ QUOTE ]
    Rothrandir said:
    the whole gore/bush election fiasco really shows how god can do miracles [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually...when it comes to humanity, God has a warped sense of humor.

    Dan

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