NEXTORCH - Saint Torch 11        
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 61

Thread: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    2,332

    Default How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try and convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001, and those who support terror.

    These activists may be alone or in a gathering.....most of us don't know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette:

    1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who did this to us, we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian.

    2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in the nose.

    3. When the person gets up off of the ground, they will be very angry and they may try to hit you, so be careful.

    4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell them if they are really committed to a nonviolent approach to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are saying.

    5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are correct.

    6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much harder. Square in the nose.

    7. Repeat steps 2-5 until the desired results are obtained and the idiot realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making.

    8. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is unacceptable and must be dealt with. Perhaps at a high cost.

    We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for us and our children. We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep getting hit in the nose.

    Lesson over, class dismissed.

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,796

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif[/img]

    when i saw the subject line, i said to myself "punch them in the face..."

    seriously, once of the few things i can't stand is ignorance and stupidity, and that is just about the only reason to protest this war. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    it really bothers me that these idiots were gathering, and not only were some of them being rowdy, they were blocking the streets, and taking away the police, that could be better used elsewhere [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Bravo! :up:

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic* this_is_nascar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Gloucester, New Jersey
    Posts
    7,488

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Great post tkl.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* Silviron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    2,477

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Beter be careful doing this- they are starting to carry "molotov covtails" in their "quest for peace".

    They might burn you up literally instead of figuratively.

    And the police might not help- after all, it is just "free speech"....

    Just as the police lieutenant up in the northern part of my state said while watching "peace activists" vandalizing a house that SecDef Rumsfeld owns up near Taos; He refused to take action against these criminals, on the basis that vandalism and tresspass against Republicans are actually allowed under the First Ammendment. (That's not exactly what he said, but I'm pretty sure that's what was thinking.)
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Look, I doubt that TKL or any of the [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] responders are really advocating assault on peaceful protesters as long as they obey the law, and respect other people's rights. It is just an exercise in logic that is so simple that even most of the more mentally challenged protesters could grasp.

    And that thing TKL posted isn't anything new; I remember something almost identical to it back in the late 60s circulating around my R.O.T.C. classes.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* treek13's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    1,230

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Um, they might just do the sensible law abiding thing and call the police who will arrest you. This is still a peaceful thing and will most likely result in a criminal conviction since you will committing battery in front of a group of witnesses.

    In this way, you might learn that there are in fact other approaches available instead of just striking back and some of them might very well be more effective.

    Just something to think about,
    Pat

  7. #7
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    FL panhandle
    Posts
    2,704

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    TKL, thanks!

    I believe and maybe I'm just misguided, that many, many of these protesters are at least semi-pro players in the protest league. Kind of a "Tell me what we're protesting if it make you feel better, cuz it don't matter to me" deal. These people get whipped into a frenzy and do all sorts of foolish things. I also believe the majority of antiwar protestors believe in what they are doing but can find themselves caught up in the moment and can do things they will later regret. We should look at the root of a specific protest, the sponsor for lack of a better term and determine which group or organization is really driving the bus. We then report that x-group is holding an anti-war protest. This would give us a better understanding and perspective of the protesters and their agenda.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    2,332

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    glad you guys liked it, i can't take credit for the words though, my brother emailed it to me. where he got it, i don't know.

    diesel dave, i think you are right my friend.


  9. #9
    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    "The 49th State"
    Posts
    10,122

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    tkl...and all this time I've had it wrong! I stand corrected and now am prepared to deal with them! Thanks! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Good points Dave.
    I have to admit I laughed when I read it, but I still don't think that's the right thing to do.

    If I knew for a fact that a certain protestor or protestors were true agitators, politically motivated with a desire to harm our country then a heavy-booted kick might not be inappropriate. But I have to believe that some of these folks, perhaps many of them, are sincerely motivated, if in my view misguided Americans who honestly feel differently than we do and are excercising the right to (peacefully) demonstrate their views. Unfortunately it can be hard to tell the misguided from the "semi-pros".

    I was uncomfortably close to the action on 9/11, but even if is were proven beyond doubt that Saddamn had nothing to do with the attack I would still be for our invasion, though I've had some pretty heated arguments with colleagues about this.

    Since that horrible day only two things have gotten me really angry: the attack itself, after the fear and shock had lessened, and the statement: "I'm really ashamed to be an American" which I've heard used all too frequently in the last few days. A good friend used that phrase today and I was surprised at the uprush of fury that I felt. I just told her that, "We don't agree on this", and excused myself before I said something I would be sorry for later.

    Brightnorm




  11. #11
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    769

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Brightnorm, I think you've given me an answer to the question asked in the post. I'm going to buy a flag to put on the car. I'm pretty sure you know the one I mean...the pretty one, with the red and white stripes, and those cute little white stars on the blue field.

  12. #12

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    [ QUOTE ]
    Albany Tom said:
    Brightnorm, I think you've given me an answer to the question asked in the post. I'm going to buy a flag to put on the car. I'm pretty sure you know the one I mean...the pretty one, with the red and white stripes, and those cute little white stars on the blue field.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Tom,

    That is one of the prettiest things I've ever seen. I don't think of myself as overly emotional, but would you believe I got a lump in my throat reading your post?

    Brightnorm

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Monstropolis
    Posts
    654

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Punch a peace protestor in the nose.... could it be extended to ministers of religion?! Since most religions preach peace and tolerance, etc.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* Silviron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    2,477

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Yeah, if you you get away with punching a peace protester in the nose, where will it stop???

    Next you nasty conservatives would want to be punching other kinds of ignorant fools in the nose.

    The world wouldn't be safe for the ignorant any more. People would have to either smarten up or go around with bloody noses all the time. That just wouldn't be fair.


  15. #15
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,796

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    of course...we can't just beat the stupid people [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] that would be descriminatory... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Silviron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    2,477

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    [ QUOTE ]
    treek13 said:
    ......you might learn that there are in fact other approaches available instead of just striking back and some of them might very well be more effective.....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No arguement from me on this statement, I just thought it is kind of ironic that the "avatar" of the person who posted it is a graphic of a guy throwing a punch!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,796

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    isn't that mr. clean? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif[/img]

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Wolfen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    I agree, a large part of the protesters are the professionals. I hate everything so I am going to try and mess it up type of people. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif[/img]

  19. #19

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    You might want to consider this:

    Is every war protestor the same as the next?

    I suppose it is comfortable to find a quote from one, and then assume that all are the same.

    You might consider that some of the people in this protest are not opposed to all war...just this particular war. My mother is one that is opposed to ALL war and says that WAR is NEVER the answer. I've never agreed with that. War definitely settled the issue with Hitler and stopped the Nazi program of systematically killing the jews.

    On the other hand, we killed a LOT of people in VietNam...and didn't accomplish anything. My brother fought in VietNam and I honor his service to our country. But I believe that it was a war we should not have fought.

    There are those that simply disagree with the Bush strategy of attacking Iraq when it was Al Queda that attacked us on 9-11. Yes, I know that Bush has claimed all sorts of stretched "facts" to show a link to Al Queda. Even the recent Al Queda video tape was trotted out to "prove" that the two are linked. On that very same tape, AL Queda condemmed Saddam. Al Queda wants to impose a fundamentalist muslim gov't. Saddam is a secular gov't that Al Queda opposes.

    I'm proud that there are Americans that have taken an oath of honor to defend our country and our constitution. I totally support our troops. However, they must rely on the rest of us not in uniform to figure out what is the best course in which to use our military. Not even the generals in all of the armed forces agree on every tactic or every strategy.


  20. #20

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Wolfen said:...large part of the protesters are the professionals.

    I don't know where you have been to meet the protestors that you claim to know all about. I live in Iowa. My wife has attended several protests against this war. I have met many of the folks in that protest and talked to them. They are all locals. They have jobs here in Iowa. A few are students, most are older than that.

    Maybe in some of the big cities there are "professional trouble makers" in these protests, but...it is not what is happening here in Iowa.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Saginaw, MI, USA
    Posts
    588

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    [ QUOTE ]
    treek13 said:
    Um, they might just do the sensible law abiding thing and call the police who will arrest you. This is still a peaceful thing and will most likely result in a criminal conviction since you will committing battery in front of a group of witnesses.

    In this way, you might learn that there are in fact other approaches available instead of just striking back and some of them might very well be more effective.

    Just something to think about,
    Pat

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The hole in the logic here is that the protesters would be utilizing a technique that the protestors don't want to allow to be used in Iraq: Legitimate Authorities enforcing the law. If compliance with the law (not striking other people/Giving up chemical weapons like you agreed/are required to) can't be brought about through peaceful means, then a superior force (the police/US/UK Military) will be brought in to force compliance.

    Have no illusion that the "Peace" protestor isn't utilizing violence if he uses the police. Police work through implied violence: Comply with the law or we will force you into handcuffs and incarcerate you. Ever notice those guns on their belt? They're not there for "Peaceful" approaches. Its just the "Peace" protestors approve of this violence, and since someone else is protecting them, they can credibly tell themselves that they would never utilize violence. It must be a satisfying delusion.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Tx
    Posts
    2,332

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    the protestors don't bother me, they are irrelivant and few. last i heard 2/3 of the country was behind bush and the war. what needs to be done is getting done as we type. all the whiney democrats have to do is [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif[/img]

    roasted towel anyone? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    565

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    I read the first post of this thread, and though Ha, ha, very funny. See someone who you disagree with, and beat them up. I kept hoping that this was over the top satire, because if you want to live in a country where you get to beat the crap out of someone who disagrees with their government, then move your ass over to Iraq and join the Republican Guard, and then you can make certain that everyone does exactly what Saddam says.

    I for one have mixed feelings about the current war, strongly tending to opposition at the present time. I believe that inspections were working, but that they were only working in the context of the threat of force. I believe that violent defence is justified to protect oneself from violence, but that one is obliged to attempt to diffuse the situation and to not escalate the violence. I am against revenge, because that happens after the violence against you has already ended. You sue them, you get their ass arrested, you obtain compensation for your injuries. You put out the eye of someone to prevent them from putting out your eye, but an eye for an eye in punishment just makes the world blind. Right now I believe that the US administration is attacking too soon, with only _fear_ of what Saddam might do in the future as the primary motivation, without sufficient support from the rest of the world. It feels like misdirected revenge, and I am very much against revenge.

    In particular, I am against all attempts at _vengance_ for 9/11. Sit back and ask yourself, what would be fair _vengance_ for the attacks of 9/11? If you want vengeance, than you don't go after the terrorists; instead you go after their families and their communities. In other words, for vengeance you go after the innocent people who happen to be precious to those who attacked you. The only way to revenge 9/11 is to become a terrorists ourselves. I will _not_ do this.

    Our targets _must_ be limited to those who carried out the attacks, those who provided material support, those who gave the orders. In other words, our targets must be limited to the terrorists themselves. And not for revenge, but to capture them and prevent them from acting. This will require violence, and this may require killing them.

    We _must_ be able to forgive even the worst acts of violence perpetrated against us, or we are prey to being lowered to the level of our attackers. Note: I do not mean that we should bow like lambs and let ourselves be killed; if in protecting ourselves we need to kill our attackers, then we will have to pronounce our forgiveness over their graves. But if we cannot forgive and let go of hate, then we cannot focus our defensive strengths against the enemies who will try to harm us.

    The events of 9/11 and the threat of Saddam in Iraq are two separate threats. There are certainly connections, but if you think that going after Iraq is sensible retribution for 9/11, then you are clueless.

    Saddam is clearly against America. Al Queda is clearly against America. But that doesn't make Saddam and Al Queda fast friends. I'd give odds that Saddam has not given WMD to Al Queda because he is rather at risk that Al Queda will use these weapons against him. By taking Saddam out, we are giving Al Queda a chance to get at Saddam's arsenal during the disruption of the war. I hope that we get there (to the WMD) first.

    If you don't clear your eyes of hate, and recognize where real threats are coming from, then you will strike out blindly, and will strengthen your enemies. In part, America has done this before, arming the 'Freedom Fighters' in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. At the time the Soviet Union was our enemy, so we went and armed Islamic Fundamentalists to help fight them. Twenty years later this came back to haunt us, because in our hatred of one enemy, we armed another.

    -Jon

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* NightStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Between a rock & a hard place.
    Posts
    1,091

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Amen....

    Dan

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* James S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    on an island surrounded by reality
    Posts
    5,081

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Johnathan, I am completely accord with everything you say, except that I don't equate anything we're doing in Iraq as "vengeance" for 9/11. I have to say that they have quoted absolutely everything as a reason for doing it and haven't been completely clear. But removing Saddam is good enough reason for me. I don't want to live in a world where he can be in power. There are some things that in my mind remove your rights to do your own thing and be left alone, and he has done them all.

    I don't understand all the motivations for us doing what we're doing, but I don't get a sense is has anything to do with vengeance. And thats good. I definitely feel that this is the right thing for us to do.

    I have some rather severe misgivings about how successful we're going to be in democratizing Iraq going forward. I'm currently of the belief that democracy requires an economy and an infrastructure that Iraq doesn't have. So there are still a LOT of challenges to come. But we're not acting out of spite.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* FC.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    Here is my solution. Nothing like 21 gallons of water delivered every second to a 3 inch circle on your head(or body).


  27. #27
    Flashaholic* treek13's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    1,230

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    [ QUOTE ]
    Silviron said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    No arguement from me on this statement, I just thought it is kind of ironic that the "avatar" of the person who posted it is a graphic of a guy throwing a punch!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Aw c'mon don't you recognize Mr. Clean. He mainly just 'knocks out dirt'. I picked him because I too am prematurely bald and grey, or for those who prefer things more PC, follicly challenged. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif[/img]

    Pat

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* pedalinbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,281

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    johnathon states that he believes that we are acting "without sufficient support from the rest of the world."

    i disagree, and so do the numbers. we are very much supported in both materials and principle by the much of the world--according to all the major news stations (im honestly not sure of the overall percentage). of course, they all could be lying.

    disprove this, and i will apologize to you and retract my statements.

    it isnt an attack--i just keep hearing people stating that the world is against us, and that we are acting alone, which is not true according to all the info we are being given.

    Bob

  29. #29
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    565

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS


    I believe that we are acting without sufficient support from the rest of the world.

    You can disagree with that belief. You cannot disagree that I have that belief.

    It is clear that there is significant support for US actions. Further there is even more partial support in the form of 'Well, Saddam should be taken out of power, and good riddance, but we don't like the heavy handed way in which the US government just decided what to do with our lives.' There is also significant opposition.

    We can argue the facts of the percentage of world population that is for or against this war, or the percentage of UN members for or against, or the UN security council members for or against. Those are facts which can be checked.

    But what I see of the balance of support and opposition suggests to me that there is not sufficient support world wide support for this war at the present time. This is my opinion and belief. It may be that you and I agree on the facts of how much of the world supports this war, but that my personal belief holds a higher standard of world support prior to initiating a war.

    I have a friend who is in Cairo, who reports that many of the people that she meets (who know she is American) are very supportive of her, will be happy to see Saddam ousted, and are angry at the Bush administration for _how_ they went about moving against Iraq. Just an anecdote, not a sufficient data set to prove any points.

    I strongly suspect that most of the worlds support or rejection of this war will actually form after the fact, after we see how it turns out.

    -Jon

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* pedalinbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,281

    Default Re: How to deal with ANTI WAR PROTESTORS

    i didnt intend to imply that you cannot have your belief.

    i read your posts with great interest---your writings are compelling, intelligent and thoughtful!

    i will admit, that though i support the war, i always wish we could find peaceful means.

    whatver happens, i hope everything turns out for the best. i know that sounds like a bit of a cop-out, but now that the ball is rolling, might as well roll in the best way possible!

    again, i very much respect your views, and look forward to reading more of them. i like to learn and to have my views challenged/updated/verified/shot-down. we share similar views in some areas, and dissimilar views in others. i like this! you make me really think about a subject!

    take care,
    Bob

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •