Rage and self control toward Iraq

DieselDave

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The news of a US Army soldier having a mental breakdown or worse and the news of the execution of 5 US POW's sends a surge of rage through my body. I have hateful emotions brewing towards the Iraqi's and this must be controlled.

I/we must remember the Iraqi people are for the most part just working stiffs like you and I. The political and military leadership of Iraq is the cause for; 1. The US being in Iraq. 2. The blatant ignoring of the Geneva convention 3. The repression and brutality to the Iraqi civilian populace.

I know there are many here feeling the same rage but I encourage you to temper your post as I am doing now. I am not writing about how I feel at the moment because it would be shocking to many of you and serve no real purpose. I will say if I was in charge Iraq would soon find out the TRUE meaning of "shock and awe." All prior bombing was just a warm up. I would start raining MOAB's on the outskirts of Bagdad for about 48 hours straight and then ask them, "How ya liking me so far?" It is still imperative we avoid civilian casualties but I am hot right now!

God bless our troops, our allies troops and their loved ones. God bless America.

Semper-Fi
DD
 

ledfoot

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Dave.......what can I say?!!
Pisses me off like no tomorrow also. I'm ready to go. It's hard to contain yourself in situations like this! It also is hard to control your feelings toward civilians when some in civilian clothing are shooting rpgs. All a part of there plan I'm sure, to get us to start blowing away anything and everything so they can get international sympathy. Don't think you're the only one with your insides boiling..
God Bless America and please support our troops and our allies troops!
 

Sigman

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DieselDave & ledfoot..here's "hopefully, while using control" ALL I will say...I've purposely withheld posting further thoughts and feelings in the many threads that exist here in the Forums on the subject of this war. There are "those of us who have been there" and "those of us who have not"...I'm sure any Vet here will know what I'm "trying" to imply, though can't put into words.

There are "some" people who will never, ever understand. I like to believe that I have an open mind and will listen to other "views" that differ from mine. If they make sense, yes I'm man enough to admit that I am wrong and perhaps even be "swayed over" to a different line of thought and/or modify my own thoughts. Controversy and different views are good in that respect. However, "some" are indeed not open minded, it doesn't matter if the facts are right in front of their noses...they will not see them for what they are. Some just like to argue, some just like to "hear themselves talk/type" I guess...

I've found (and I'm doing somewhat of a poor job of it) that it's best for me to merely ignore most of these threads...I've also got so many mixed feelings about the "embedded media" and the many "briefings/interpretations" by the so called "experts". Though we can also use that to our advantage (PSYOPS), I beleive we can give out a little too much and then it becomes dangerous and can be used against us. "History in the making" indeed, the way this war is being covered with technology...but is it too much?

Well, hopefully I'm done babbling. I've been up all night watching with concern and as it's 10:19 a.m. here..I've got to get a few hours of "recharge"!

<font color="blue">"Let</font><font color="red"> Freedom</font><font color="blue"> Ring!"</font>
 

Icebreak

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Dave -

Could any of these things be true?

The majority of the Iraqi people hate Saddam. They would accept help from anyone to get rid of him. When he's gone, a majority of that majority would exhibit, if not hatred, then destain toward the US. The capture and torture of coalition troops will cause America, the UK, the rest of the free world, as well as the US Commander In Chief, his military staff and troops to have a decreased concern for the well being of Iraqi citizens resulting in more agressive use of power.
 

DieselDave

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Icebreak,
All that could very well be true. The part about the Iraq's not liking us even after we liberate them is most likely correct. However, I believe and hope cooler heads will prevail and this will not have a large impact on how we prosecute the war. The President has shown much greater restraint with Iraq and other issues since taking over, much more than I ever thought possible.
 

tsg68

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Sigman,
I am with you I have a great deal of concern about the "embedded" media and feel that they are already giving too much useful information to the enemy (Unit I.D.'s, locations and distances to objectives, allied assets in those locations, etc..) I think they should call a media blackout. As far as having "been there" I have not but I understand that for the average soldier the fight becomes more a matter of fighting for survival and your fellow comrades survival on the battlefield than the fight for cause or country and I fully support that. I believe they must do whatever it takes to come home safely and will gladly go myself despite the fact I am now too old to join up. I only want their safety and pray for their strength and for the Iraqi people to honor and give aid to them for their bravery on their peoples behalf. I know we have doubts about these things but it is good to keep hope alive.


Sincerely,
TSG
 

flownosaj

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[ QUOTE ]
Icebreak said:
The capture and torture of coalition troops will cause America, the UK, the rest of the free world, as well as the US Commander In Chief, his military staff and troops to have a decreased concern for the well being of Iraqi citizens resulting in more agressive use of power.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's the strategy Sadam's using. We're being goaded into action that we do not want to persue. Yes, we want to take out Sadam and his henchmen, but due to our emotions getting the better of us, we could alienate the Iraqi people.

No more "winning the hearts and minds" of the people if your're bashing the skulls of anyone in a turban because you're pissed. And that's the hard part...self restraint.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

How can you stand by and let these atrocities go on? I'd love to go over there and <font color="red">fix</font> things myself, but I can't.

Would I love to personaly find the guy who lobbed the grenades at his own men...
Would I love to get a hold of the Mo7#$& Fv[<$& who executed 5 of our troops....

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 

Silviron

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Good posts guys. Rather than address this thread separtately, I'll just copy my recent post on the same subject from Lucianne.com:
____________________________________________________________

First of all, why are you surprised at this?

These people treat their OWN people this way. Torture, rape, and bloody execution is their way of life. Saddam's regime will do this to an entire extended family just because they suspect that one member of the family may be disloyal.

To have believed that they wouldn't do such things to an invading infidel is naievte at an extreme.

And those of you that exhort us to use the same tactics, or to slaughter them all through the use of indescriminate carpet bombing or nuclear devices are playing right into the hands of the islamists, of our own internal leftists and America haters, and the French, German and other external America haters.

Anger and outrage is fine but don't let it destroy your decency and become as savage and barbaric as the enemy.

Channel your anger into prayer for the victims and a quick resolution to this conflict with America and the Coalition nations as clear military AND MORAL victors.

Anything less and the terrorists win; the US will become even more the target of hate of the islamists and the left. And while the attitude of "Kill them all and let God sort them out." may make you feel better for a moment it REALLY isn't the answer.
______________________________________


Believe me, In the distant past when I actually had the capability, and upon occasion more recently now that I am essentially impotent to do anything, I have felt that "Kill them all." sentiment. Fortunately it only lasts moments and rationality prevails.
 

ledfoot

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Great posts gentlemen! Let rationality prevail and I agree that the greatest thing that we can do now, is to pray for our troops and there families.
 

FalconFX

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The Iraqi regime knows what kind of value we put on human lives and especially on our men and women of the armed services.

THIS is why they're charading our soldiers on TV, and why they, for all intents and purposes, probably executed the remaining soldiers they've ambushed and captured.

They could care less for their own soldiers (or their own people, for that matter, using them as human sheilds). That's why you don't see them demanding news of their own POWs.

They know it's going to be a psychological shock to us to see something like this. It's what they want, and it's something we, as Americans, have to understand that this CANNOT deter us from our main objective: to either KILL this regime OUTRIGHT or make sure they never see power again and ordinary Iraqi people can actually speak their mind without having to look behind their backs...
 

KC2IXE

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Well, there is the option one friend suggested, and it gets rid of the makes ememies problem

He says, start in Morraco, and go all the way to Turkey, and turn it ALL to green glass

I'd say it's a bit extreme

I'm pissed enough that my answer would be to give them 48 hours to hand over the war criminals for trial, and if they don't - level Basra
 

tkl

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i say level the entire country, alah will sort em out. then we can set up our oil crews and get gas back down to a reasonable $.99 a gallon. no fuss, no muss. no rebuild, no billions down the toilet, no worrying about who is "civilian" and who is not.

the rest of our enemies will get the message we mean business. class dismissed.
 

Bill.H

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Strategy Question

Since this is a great propaganda (only) victory for them in the eyes of their militant arab brothers (only), what happens if we take that capability away? I mean, besides this, we hear all the BS they're putting out on their own TV stations, too. Which makes me wonder....

Why don't we use that new E-bomb. Give 'em a good dose of EMP and shut down Baghdad TV, and all their communications.

I'm not a military strategist, and I'm not suggesting we do this, I'm just asking in case someone can tell me why we haven't, or if this idea even has any merit. Only reason I can think of is what it would do to the civilian population.
We saw in GW 1 that we can kill their power, is that another alternative?
 

Charles Bradshaw

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For your information: The US soldier that attacked his Command tent, is an American Moslem, who according to latest report, did what he did, because he is against the War.

Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, what he has done, merits the Death Penalty, due to the Time of War clause. This is according to my knowledge of the UCMJ, which may have changed since I was in (immediate post Vietnam).

The primary crimes in descending order of precedence are: Treason, Murder, and Attempted Murder.
 

Silviron

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Bill- I think that there are a couple of reasons that we are allowing them to keep broadcasting:

1. With proper analysis, by people that know the difference between propaganda and the real stuff, it provides some useful intel..

2. Their broadcasting of this brutality is going to (has already actually) turned some of the "fence sitters" and even some of the less stupid dissenters against saddam.

Over at democraticunderground.com even some of the most virulent leftists have condemned such barbarity and are supporting our troops, and a few of them are now saying that the war is maybe justified.

Not that everyone over there has seen the light. One of those hateful slimes even wanted to "go spit in the faces of the parents" of our murdered soldiers "for raising such horrible tools of American hegemony".

We could easily take out or jam their transmission facilities if we wanted, even without resorting to an EMP device, so someone in the Administration has made a decision to let it continue... for now at least...
 

DieselDave

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Re: Strategy Question

The goal WAS to keep the country intact to the greatest extent possible. Leaving power and TV aids in the rebuild. But those lofty goals will soon be thrown aside if we keep meeting strong resistance.

I am also not a military strategist bu here goes it anyway.

We are soon to engage the bulk of the Iraqi military. The battle should take place in another day or two. I have a suggestion for General Franks. I say it's time to EMP Baghdad, Gator the 3 divisions of Republicans Guards' escape routes (Who can tell me what Gator munitions are used for? I will answer later if no takers on the question. If you do a search you will learn about one of my favorites, please notice the nasty little self-destruct feature.) Once the gators are set and they can't run back into Baghdad start them off with a few Tomahawks followed by 300 loads of Rockeye and for dessert give them FAE with a MOAB twist. Once they are softened up run CAS missions with artillery, helos and fast movers. If there is anyone or anything left after that send in two Lance Corporals with their K-Bars and end it with a hook and a jab. I pulled my old K-bar out of the drawer tonight to see how she looked. I had to get out a pad and clean off the rust before I put her back away, oil and ready to use. Are we ready to pull of the gloves? Let's win this thing quick!
 

DieselDave

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Re: Strategy Question

The goal WAS to keep the country intact to the greatest extent possible. Leaving power and TV aids in the rebuild. But those lofty goals will soon be thrown aside if we keep meeting strong resistance.

I am also not a military strategist but here goes it anyway.

We are soon to engage the bulk of the Iraqi military. The battle should take place in another day or two. I have a suggestion for General Franks. I say it's time to EMP Baghdad, Gator the 3 divisions of Republicans Guards' escape routes (Who can tell me what Gator munitions are used for? I will answer later if no takers on the question. If you do a search you will learn about one of my favorites. Please notice the nasty little self-destruct feature.} Once the gators are set and they can't run back into Baghdad start them off with a few Tomahawks followed by 300 loads of Rockeye and for dessert give them FAE with a MOAB twist. Once they are softened up run CAS missions with artillery, helos and fast movers. If there is anyone or anything left after that send in two Lance Corporals with their K-Bars and end it with a hook and a jab. I pulled my old K-bar out of the drawer tonight to see how she looked. I had to get out a pad and clean off the rust before I put her back away, oiled and ready to use. Are we ready to pull of the gloves? Let's win this thing quick!
 

brightnorm

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Re: Rage and self control toward Iraq *DELETED* *DELETED*

Post deleted by brightnorm
 

Bill.H

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Thanks for the answers, Silviron and Dave. I kind of expected them to use that right away when it all started, and I'll admit I was a bit surprised they didn't use it. Perhaps, just by announcing it, they tied up a lot of Iraqi time and money preparing alternatives. Anyway, someone who knows a lot more of what's going on in there than any of us do will make that decision if the time comes.

Dave - you're right, the quicker the better!
I must admit I had to look up Gator... I knew of the types of cluster munitions we had, but not by that name. Shame on me. Only problem with your plan is it doesn't address the "Special Republican Guard" located inside Baghdad. That could be nasty.


For anyone else who wants to know, a great reference is www.fas.org - well worth bookmarking.
 

DieselDave

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Yes, the Special Republican Guard could be a huge problem. Door to door is not a good way to wage war, expecially if you are concerned with civilian casualties. If it comes down to door to door I would suggest using the drones and just start nailing the largest heat signatures until someone yells, "uncle".
 
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