Hella Free Form?

These look like they put out a LOT of light.Maybe not 600% more then stock like the ad copy states but I'd be happy with a mere 100% improvement. Any opinions?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FNLMLI/?tag=cpf0b6-20

These are not bad... certainly better than sealed beams. I ran a pair on my old Chevy van and they really kicked booty over the original sealed beams. I don't think increased output is really the advantage here, more like putting the light where it's more useful (on the road and on street signs). One thing I noticed about my Hellas is that they had a "wink" where some light was up and to the right. It appears as though this is a design feature (instead of a sloppy beam pattern) - it made street signs really easy to read, and didn't seem to blind oncoming traffic.

Thanks Scott! I think the "wink" is a design feature of the better eurolights.

I replaced the stock headlights in my Jeep with Hella H4 bulbs and they were a significant improvement. I cannot speak to the specific product you mentioned but I would not hesitate to use them again.

Yes that wink to right is in low beams all cars sold in europe, Like this __/'''''''' n Britain it is '''''''\___ so oncoming traffic does not get blind.

But why there is that Xenon text in there, those looks like normal H4 +50% bulbs and what is that Cross over adapter for?

Juha

Jumi said:

Yes that wink to right is in low beams all cars sold in europe, Like this __/'''''''' n Britain it is '''''''\___ so oncoming traffic does not get blind.

But why there is that Xenon text in there, those looks like normal H4 +50% bulbs and what is that Cross over adapter for?

Juha

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Hi Juha,

I believe there is 5% xenon gas mixed in with the halogen to give a slightly higher color temperature.The crossover adapter is because the wiring for the grounds (and pin out?) are different between between the h4 and the sealed beams I am replacing.

The only problem with these is there's apparently only one vendor in the US for the Hella FF and they don't actually have any in stock.So now I'm considering some e-code lights.

Andy

The Hella FF 165mm x 100mm H4 headlamp is an OK performer. It's among the better 165mm x 100mm conversion units, and its performance is stronger than the optic-lens Hella lamp in this size format, but the Bosch unit is better, particularly in terms of beam width/evenness and control of stray light. Ditto the Cibie. It's very difficult to get good beam performance out of a reflector-type lamp of this size, because of the small active optical area. Walls, ceilings, floors, and corners take big slices out of what would otherwise be a fairly decently-sized round quasiparabolic reflector, and then you have to remember that with H4, only 55% of the total optical area is used on low beam. This Hella FF unit would be much better with a bulb shield; there's significant stray/flare light coming directly from the filament through the lens without being collected and focused by the reflector (as well as the reflections bouncing off the floor, ceiling, walls, and inner lens surface and exiting the lamp as uncontrolled streaks and spots of stray light). This lamp is DOT-certified for use on any roadgoing vehicle in North America, but it's ECE-approved (European E-code) only as a Class-A headlamp for low-speed vehicles that don't exceed 50 km/h (30 mph). Also, this headlamp is made out of thermoplastic, so the wattage limitations are much lower before you run into heat problems. The Osram 70/65w H4 works OK in it, given adequate wiring, but I wouldn't go any higher than that.

Stern's got some beam isocandela diagrams for it on his 165mm headlight comparison page (it's listed as the "Hella DOT/ECE harmonized" headlamp). It'd be nice to see the Bosch and Cibie units plotted, too, but obtaining data like this gets expensive if you don't have your own photogoniometer. Me, I like the unit plotted at the bottom of the page! That's a projector-type H1 low beam in a 165mm x 100mm size housing. Bosch and Hella both make the same design, primarily for heavy-duty trucks and buses in Europe (Yeah...our truckers are flying blind with 1973 sealed beams, and their truckers get these units on the same trucks...life's not fair!). The projector lamp is much deeper than any of the reflector-type lights, though, so it can't easily be retrofitted to all applications that originally take a reflector type lamp.

As for the language being used to sell this FF lamp: BS, BS, BS. There's nothing 600% (or 300%, or 200%, or 100%) brighter here. The efficiency loss due to the low-beam filament cap in H4 is counterbalanced by the inefficiency of C6 (transverse) filaments and the difficulty in focusing the beam from C8 (axial unshielded) filaments in a rectangular quasiparabolic reflector like this. There's about the same amount of light overall from an H4 vs. sealed beam of this size on low beam, it's just that a good H4 light provides a wider, more useful beam distribution. And "xenon" has got to be the most hackneyed word in the whole world of automotive lighting. It's being used to sell absolutely everything — sometimes legitimately, but most of the time it's being used emptily as a hype term for blue-glass or otherwise ridiculous bulbs. Most all halogen headlamp bulbs from reputable makers contain some xenon gas as one of many ingredients in the fill gas mix, chosen to optimize the filament's light output and lifespan. This optimization varies depending on the bulb type and subtype (long life, high output, etc.)

WOW! Thank You.Great information there,some of which I understood. The Free Forms seem to be unobtanium at this time.Probably a good thing but they sure do look cool.

I was considering a Blazer conversion on my S10.They're composites using 9005 and 9006 bulbs and I hear the Toshiba HIR's are pretty good.But the Blazer composites have a terrible beam pattern,much worse then the H4666 sealed beams,and plastic lenses.Plus it'd cost northward of 400 smackers.Those who have done the conversion have not been 100% satisfied.So I'm pretty much stuck with the 165mm format.

The good news is I have been in touch with Mr Stern and will be getting.the Cibie's with +50 60/55wt bulbs.Going to try it with the stock wiring first and hope it's enough.I am not entirely comfortable adding complexity in the form of relays,fuses,extra connections,etc. to a mission critical system such as headlights.So I'll just see how it goes but if I need more I need more.

Sometimes I wonder if the world is getting darker or I'm getting older?

Andy

Yer gettin' older, just like the rest of us!

You're wise to steer clear of the GM composite headlamps...as you say, doesn't matter how bright the bulbs are; the optics are junk and so the beam pattern sucks.

Relays add complexity, but they don't reduce reliability. Remember, the stock setup has power for the headlamps going from battery through firewall to dashboard, through tiny contacts in headlamp switch, up steering column, through tiny contacts in low/high beam switch, back down steering column, back through firewall, forward to the headlights...all through really thin wire. I'd say if you use good quality relays and do the wiring neatly, your reliability and performance will improve.

But there's nothing stopping you from doing that later on.

It's more then just GM composites that suck.Have you ever seen an Explorers? YECH! Actually it seems a pretty high percentage of the composites are quite awful.Designed more to look good then light good.I consider myself lucky to have the sealed beams.At least a relatively inexpensive, painless and high performance retrofit is available.Ever see what some of the custom shops are charging to upgrade factory composites to acceptable performance? WOOH!

The issue is the DOT standards. My DD is a '03 Mitusbishi Verada, Diamante, and it uses DOT standard lights, DOT stamped. They are simply among the worse lights I have ever driven with, despite Phillips Vision Plus H7 globes. By contrast the lower spec cars used Australian designed Hella lights with are E codes. The difference is scary. If I had my way I would swap to the lower spec lights in a heart beat, wife's car so no playing. Otherwise the Cibies would be on it as well.

Hi irsa76 and :welcome: ,

I thought that Australia was a left side driving country and that e-code is the standard.Could I be mistaken?

Andy

We do drive on the left and most cars have E code, British standard E codes naturally. However some Asian cars use DOT standard lights to save money as the DOT standards can apply with both left hand traffic and right hand traffic.

Oooooooohhhh I just love my new headlights! Went with the Cibie h4's with Hella +50 bulbs.Even just on stock wiring they're great.They both shine farther and light up more of the foreground then the old sealed beams.High beam is asbolutely blazing.I can also see things on the side of the road now.

HappyHappyJoyJoy.

Yep, Euro-beams are fantastic! You buy from Stern?

What're Silverstars again?

:buddies:

I'll vouch for Daniel Stern. I've got the Cibie H4 Ecode myself. I did lower the wattage of the bulbs a bit, I used to run 100/130 but I figured I'd the lower wattage a try. Didn't lose much since the Cibie is such a great light. When I sell my car, they're staying with me!

Diesel_Bomber said:

Yep, Euro-beams are fantastic! You buy from Stern?

What're Silverstars again?

:buddies:

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Well ya know....live and learn,right? I did get them from DS.One of the Good Guys.

FYI the Hella FF has been regular stock at most Walmarts for months now. Thats where I bought mine back in October '07 for either $60 or $65.