Maxpedition - Knives and Tools
Page 1 of 8 12345678 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 221

Thread: Desperatly looking for driver (updated kennan driver?)

  1. #1

    Default Desperatly looking for driver (updated kennan driver?)

    OK, so I bought these drivers in the past:
    http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/Produ...px?TranID=2982

    They are absolutely good stuff, very reliable and efficient. And they have the input range that suits me (automotive purposes).

    The problem is that I ordered them once again from Kaidomain in mid November. I paid for 20 pieces. I don't remember if they were available at the time, but I think I would have seen the 'out of stock' text.

    The thing is that the drivers have not arrived yet, after three months. Fortunately I have managed to enter into a conversation with people from KD (which is like a miracle, as they usually do not reply) and they told me that the supplier give the item in really small batches, so I'm waiting in queue. I can get a refund if I want.

    But I want the drivers because I need them. So does anybody know where I can buy (at a similar price) drivers for 12-15V (this range interests me)?

    I am stuck with my projects for three months, waiting like an idiot.
    Last edited by MikePL; 03-05-2008 at 09:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Gryloc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio & North Lewisburg, Ohio
    Posts
    600

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    MikePL,

    It is too bad that it has been taking you so long to get those drivers. I cannot believe that it takes 3+ months to gather a total of 20 drivers from suppliers. Does this mean other peoples small orders (1-2 of the drivers) are being ignored until your order is complete? Maybe they keep a few in reserve for those with small orders. Either way, yikes! If there are people demanding that many of those specific driver boards, then you would think that someone would ask for more from the supplier/manufacturer.

    Anyway, I am as equally interested in the same thing as you. I plan (well, planned) to buy 12 to 16 of those driver boards for a new automotive headlight project. That seemed like a decent driver (specs wise), and I have tested one of the boards and it worked as I wanted. Now I do not know if I even want to bother with waiting 3+ months for these nice drivers.

    I wish I could get my hands on just the IC circuits, as I feel that I may be able to get the needed components and make my own driver boards, but every place that distributes them are in Chinese. Does anyone know where you can find these IC cicuits (Micro-Bridge PT4105), or where you can buy circuits that feature this IC? Could anyone help us English speakers with ordering from these sites? I am afraid to work with them with only using a Google translation. There is still a big communication gap there!

    As MikePL asked, can anyone make any recommendations for a suitable driver that could serve as an alternative?

    Thank you MikePL for figuring this out for us. It is unfortunate for your long wait. I think that you may have saved a few of us from going through the same gruesome thing...

    -Tony

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* LukeA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    near Pittsburgh
    Posts
    4,402

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Well, DX has p60 dropins with 3-18V input. (here) I know they're more expensive than the KD boards ($10.14), but you also get emitters and reflectors.
    A little madness never hurt anybody.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Have you seen these? Look interesting.

    http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut755

  5. #5

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Looks interesting. But is it just the chip for sale or the entire plug&play board?

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* kavvika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    509

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    LukeA: So are you saying that you know the drivers in DX #6090 = KD Kennan boards, or are you just basing that off the specs and pictures? Either way, I can't believe I missed that before, as I've been looking for a few Kennan's for a while now!

  7. #7
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Flushing, NY
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Part of the problem is he's selling those way too cheap. He's probably out of stock because he can't get parts for new boards cheap enough and doesn't want to raise his price. I would have to charge at least twice that to sell a similar board, and that would be in large quantities (500+ pcs). Orders of 10 or 20 would probably be $11 or $12 each.

    I don't see how Cutter can afford to sell that board so cheap and make a profit, either. The parts likely cost as much as he's selling it for. It's probably a loss leader so he can sell LEDs.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Hi,

    So is this 'driver' sold by Cutter a whole driver (ws we see in the photo) or is it just the chip? The description is ambiguous as well as the datasheet.

    They say:
    The ZD850 is available in a thermally enhanced 16-pin exposed TSSOP green package.

    So is it only the 16-pin chip or is it the whole board with chip and the other components?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    If you click on the Evaluation board datasheet it reads:

    "The ZD850 is a constant off-time, high power LED driver IC using a Buck Converter Topology that is capable of driving up to a 1.5A of output current. It operates from an input voltage range of 4VAC to 16VAC or 5VDC to 27VDC and generates a regulated programmable constant output current for high power LED's."

  10. #10

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Well, yes... But to me it isn't clear whether it's only the 16-pin chip or the whole board with all the components. You know, I am an amateur when it comes to electronics. So I still don't know what's included in the price...

    What is 'driver IC'?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Driver Integrated Circuit?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    OK thanks, if it's the whole circuit then I will buy a few and tell you guys if they are really good.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    There are 2 separate products the ZD850 Chip, this is the device, then there is an evaluation board used to assist in evaluating the chip in a plug and play fashion. Hope this is clear

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* Gryloc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio & North Lewisburg, Ohio
    Posts
    600

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Quote Originally Posted by WeLight
    There are 2 separate products the ZD850 Chip, this is the device, then there is an evaluation board used to assist in evaluating the chip in a plug and play fashion. Hope this is clear
    Thanks for chiming in WeLight. Are you saying that this is just the IC then, or the evaluation board with the IC on it? I searched for "ZD850" but the above page is the only result (trying to find the evaluation board if possible). I could not find anything else. If this is just the driver, then where is the evaluation board?

    The reason I feel that it is the entire driver is because it shows a picture, it mentions being of the buck topology (as though you have the choice with the bare IC, so you can design the circuit with the boost or buck setup needed), and finally, it says "The ZD850 is available in a thermally enhanced 16-pin exposed TSSOP green package" as though that is what you may get.

    Can you please clarify this for us? I am interested in buying several if it is the complete (or somewhat complete) circuit including the board and IC. If it is the bare IC, I am still interested, but I will have to re-consider a few things.

    Do you have any other similar driver circuits for sale? MikePL, are you interested in driving 2-4 LEDs from an automotive power source, or just a single LED? I can help you by keeping an eye out for you. I am need something to power three in series (so a buck circuit), but I may be able to work with a huge boost circuit and power all 9 or 10 LEDs in series. The Chippo may work, but that is still much more expensive (though simpler to work with). Dimming for me (or programmable current via a resistor) is highly desired so I can change between two custom levels. The KD circuit is nice, but I still would need to switch between one and two with their output in parrallel to change current levels (if the circuit will allow -hopefully no interference between the ICs). I would like to stay away from too pricey of circuits, but I would like to keep things rather simple still. A single circuit with multiple outputs or a boost that can handle them all in series would be nice, even if custom made. I may be able to work with ICs and design something from the specs, but keep that simple and the IC not too small of an SMD component, and I will be happy.

    Thanks all for your input!

    -Tony

  15. #15

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    The Cutter website magically updated. Is showingthe chip costing $2.65 USD and $20 USD for the evaluation board. I fold.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Gryloc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio & North Lewisburg, Ohio
    Posts
    600

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Thank you JB012345. That is too bad. Damn! Well the search continues... The bare IC may still work, but the time going in to driver design may not be worth it for me now I think of it, even if it may be cheaper. Please help us, all...

    -Tony

  17. #17

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    They updated the website because I asked them the question whether this is just the chip or chip+board. Got no reply but the site got an update.

    What's going on with those drivers and boards? Today I can buy a new graphics card for $35 and it has a 300-pin processor, a big board, lots od small components which are quite complicated.

    On the other hand there is a driver with a very simple board, a few resistors, a coil of some kind and yet it costs $23 !!!

    That's what I call extreme price boosting.

    Gryloc, I will reply later as I have to leave my computer right now..

  18. #18

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Here is another driver I have found that might work for you -

    http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/405...eval6902d.html

    These are only $13. I already have one, just haven't played around with it yet.

    Here is the link to the datasheet
    http://www.st.com/stonline/products/.../eval6902d.pdf

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Flushing, NY
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Quote Originally Posted by MikePL View Post
    What's going on with those drivers and boards? Today I can buy a new graphics card for $35 and it has a 300-pin processor, a big board, lots od small components which are quite complicated.

    On the other hand there is a driver with a very simple board, a few resistors, a coil of some kind and yet it costs $23 !!!

    That's what I call extreme price boosting.
    The graphics cards are often made in the tens or hundreds of thousands by pick-and-place machines and IR soldering, creating huge economies of scale. Also, buying parts by the 100K is way cheaper than by the thousand. That accounts for part of it. Another part is for whatever reason all these LED driver ICs seem to be overpriced by the manufacturer for what they are. $3 for the IC is what really kills the pricing on this stuff. The coils can be expensive also, depending upon where you get them. I've made larger boards for a customer, and it was all I could do to get under $10 each in 500s while still making a reasonable profit. And I have zero overhead since I make them at home. I don't think $23 is entirely unreasonable for a small run of a very niche product when the company needs to pay its employees.

    Stay tuned-in time (meaning perhaps a year or two) I may start selling some driver boards on CPF once I get rid of my dad's hobby crap and have time and space to do so. I have to evaluate how much they're likely to fetch versus my manufacture cost and labor time.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Yes, I agree that machines cut on costs, but come on... $20 or even $30 for a LED driver is insane.

    The same applies to 110-220V LED drivers. I've seen prices in the range of $10-40, while I use cell phone chargers with great success. They have a range of 600-800mA, depending on model, and cost $1-$2. The internals are also similar. I don't know if chargers are hand-made but they cost a few dollars and included in it are components, profit for the factory and profit for the seller. LED drivers are not much different. They should cost no more than $4 and I think that production costs are not the reason for a high price, but simply the fact that LEDs are in fashion and producers want to suck out all the money they can before prices drop.

    Gryloc, I am constantly looking for drivers and must admit that price is the most important factor for me. I am interested both in multi-LED drivers as well as drivers for one LED. For example, I have 4 lights in my car doors. If the driver is expensive I will have to route additional wiring in order to use one driver for all 4 lights. If drivers are cheap I will simply save myself lots of time and 'waste' a driver per door. The same applies to blinkers and other lights... This is why I prefer to use cheap drivers. It is much easier to preserve the factory car wiring rather than doing it all from scratch.

    My budget for drivers is $100 (shipping incl.) so if you find anything that can get mi a final price (with shipping) of $2-4 per driver, then I would be happy.

    Damn, I never thought that finding drivers would be such a problem and that they would exceed the price of a LED. Our situation is like having candles but no matches to light them.

  21. #21
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Flushing, NY
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    $3 or $4 a driver might be very doable if those driver ICs would drop a bit in price. For example, if I could make a driver with about 4 or 5 parts costing less than $1 total, including the PC board, then I can sell it for perhaps $3.50 or $4 each, and still make a reasonable profit, provided I can get interest in 250 to 500 pieces. I'll add "ultra-low cost driver" to my list of "to be designed", but I probably won't have time to do it anytime soon. Also note that these things get way cheaper when size isn't an issue. A wall wart is huge compared to something to fit in a AA flashlight. That accounts for a good deal of the higher cost. I do agree $30 for a driver is ridiculous in most cases.

    I use wall-warts or plain AC transformers, combined with one of my drivers, for all my 120VAC stuff. I agree those 120VAC LED drivers are way overpriced (and most are huge-the size of fluorescent ballasts).

    BestHongKong has some 12V drivers for $5.95 here. Still a little higher than you're looking for, but not anywhere near $23.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    I was wondering if anyone here has ever used the Linear LT3467A in a boost circuit. This thing is unbelievably tiny, smaller than an ant, but it's supposed to deliver up to 1.1A of switching current. Although the LTSpice simulator that Linear has shows that it can come up to and sustain my needed current in under 1 millisecond using only a 3.2µH choke, I am having a hard time believing those figures. I am about to start building the circuit, but I imagine it will be quite a challenge considering the ultra-small form factor. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this particular driver or with soldering the DFN form factor in general (3mm x 2mm, 8 legs).

  23. #23

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    I've been doing a lot of research on drivers lately.

    Not so sure on the LT3467/3467A. On the plus side it's small and has an integrated switch. Also switches very fast. But nearly two dollars a chip in quantity seems pretty steep. Also it appears to be voltage-mode control, not current-control, so how do you deal with Vf variation and heat?

    My latest conclusion is that the best solution, at least for my purposes, where I need to be able to control via a microprocessor at fairly high speed for color mixing, is actually the ZXSC310 (mouser sells them for something like 70 cents, and they're only 38 cents in quantity!) run in buck mode with an external transistor switch. The other cool thing about the ZXSC is that the sense resistance threshold is only something like 20 mV, so a nice gain in efficiency there over other constant current solutions. And in boost mode it can source current from some ridiculously low voltages.

    Well I haven't got them yet. I'm in Thailand and it takes forever to get stuff from the US. But anyway just wanted to share that, since it seemed like a much better
    (and cheaper!) driver solution than anything else I've seen out there.

  24. #24
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Flushing, NY
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    The ZXSC310 won't work here-the maximum input voltage is only 8V, requiring an external voltage regulator. I remember when I was researching drivers a lot of the Zetex stuff at first seemed good. However, once you looked at the data sheets, you found the need for external pass elements (that's another part to be soldered, irrespective of cost), and in some cases (as with the ZXSC310), the need for extremely low-value (i.e. expensive) sense resistors.

    Unfortunately most (all?) of the integrated buck drivers, which is what is needed in the original poster's application, do indeed run $2 or more even in quantity. A lot of those which might be marginally cheaper (i.e. external pass element) had other restrictions.

    One Zetex driver I'm liking more and more is the ZXLD1360. This is a buck driver with an input voltage range of 7V to 30V. Only $1.40 in 500s, internal pass element, 100 mV sense voltage (thus can use normal value cheap sense resistors), low parts count ( only need the inductor, Schottky diode, sense resistor, and input capacitor ), and an external input for either current modulation or PWM. Still not cheap enough to make a $4 retail driver board with (for me anyway), but at least a step in the right direction. I could probably sell a ZXLD1360 based driver board at perhaps $6 each were I to get interest enough to build 500 pieces.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    I was just looking at prices for sense resistors. 0.05 ohm "current sense" resistors are like 40 cents apiece! But then when you check the "regular" 0.10 ohm resistors, they are like 2 cents. I guess with only 19mV you might be able to use a bit of PCB board instead.

    I hadn't thought about how annoying it is to have the extra pass components to deal with. In my case it was not such a big deal as I was researching how to put a very large number on one board, so a power supply was a given anyway.

    Actually the OP said 12-15 volts input, so the boost regulation was kind of a sidetrack to that.

    I see what you mean about the ZXLD1360. That part appears to be the best fit for the needs of the OP.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    The LT3467 isn't really a good choice for hi power (500-1000ma) LED driving. It just won't be able to produce enough "juice", and efficiency will hurt when one start to squize much current from it. Current feedback also is more complicated unless one goes for low efficiency design.
    For constant voltage design and output up to 350ma I think it could do ok.

    (I've used the LM2623A myself which is close to the same IC but with 2,2A switching current.)


    space

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* nanotech17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    N 03°13.884° / E 101°29.329°
    Posts
    2,150

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Quote Originally Posted by MikePL View Post
    OK, so I bought these drivers in the past:
    http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/Produ...px?TranID=2982

    They are absolutely good stuff, very reliable and efficient. And they have the input range that suits me (automotive purposes).

    The problem is that I ordered them once again from Kaidomain in mid November. I paid for 20 pieces. I don't remember if they were available at the time, but I think I would have seen the 'out of stock' text.

    The thing is that the drivers have not arrived yet, after three months. Fortunately I have managed to enter into a conversation with people from KD (which is like a miracle, as they usually do not reply) and they told me that the supplier give the item in really small batches, so I'm waiting in queue. I can get a refund if I want.

    But I want the drivers because I need them. So does anybody know where I can buy (at a similar price) drivers for 12-15V (this range interests me)?

    I am stuck with my projects for three months, waiting like an idiot.

    would like to try this - http://www.besthongkong.com/product_...roducts_id=447



  28. #28
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Flushing, NY
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Quote Originally Posted by snarfer View Post
    I was just looking at prices for sense resistors. 0.05 ohm "current sense" resistors are like 40 cents apiece! But then when you check the "regular" 0.10 ohm resistors, they are like 2 cents. I guess with only 19mV you might be able to use a bit of PCB board instead.
    That's probably exactly what the designers of the ZXSC310 have in mind. It can even work if precision isn't too important. At best with PC board traces you'll be able to get perhaps 20% repeatability from lot to lot due to variations in copper thickness, undercutting, etc. Add to that variations in copper resistance over temperature and that's probably 25% tolerance. Still good enough for a lot of applications I suppose, although I usually aim for 5% or less in the stuff I do. Last run most of my boards fell within a 2% error band of nominal.

    I hadn't thought about how annoying it is to have the extra pass components to deal with. In my case it was not such a big deal as I was researching how to put a very large number on one board, so a power supply was a given anyway.
    A power supply to a bunch of driver ICs on a single board is quite feasible. Regarding the extra pass components-it's another cost if you're doing mass production. I figure $0.15 to $0.25 to mount each extra component when I calculate costs. One driver design I did startd out with 14 components. Next interation will be only 7. That's going to cut in excess of $1 off the final price to the customer, as well as making my life easier assembling these things.

    I suspect the price of these driver ICs will crop dramatically in the next few years. For IC manufacture, hundreds of thousands for such niche products is what results in these high costs. Once LEDs become ubiquitous in cars and homes, they will be selling millions of these driver chips. Probably the low price on ZXSC310 is already the result of this driver being used by the millions. We can hopefully expect a lot more of the $3 or $4 driver chips to fall under $1 in a couple of years, making $3 driver boards a reality.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver

    Soo.. when I was about to give up, the drivers from Kaidomain arrived. After over three months. But either I got the wrong driver or maybe the driver was updated.

    The result is that I have 'some' drivers and I don't know if it's the updated kennan or how to connect the cables to it. Below are photos of the typical kennan driver and the photo of my new kennan? driver.

    The typical one:


    My new driver:

  30. #30
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Flushing, NY
    Posts
    5,851

    Default Re: Desperatly looking for driver (updated kennan driver?)

    It's the same IC (PT4105). This looks like it's probably the datasheet. Just figure out where the leads went on the old board, and make sure they connect to the same places on the new one. Ground is probably the cathode on the Schottky diode (i.e. the side without the band) and also pin 7 of the IC. +12V will be pin 3 on the IC. The LED anode should be that round pad on the left of the inductor. The LED cathode will be pin 8 on the IC (the FB pin).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •