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Thread: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

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    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

    Does this make anyone else as upset as it does me?

    Can't "Provoke" the protestors you know.

    Bull Crap!!! You can protest all you want. But touch my flag, mess with the Cops and Firemen... SHOOT THEM!!! Block streets? BULDOZER!!![img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif[/img]


    ARGH!!!![img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

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    Flashaholic* x-ray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

    What's wrong with having some pride in your country and displaying your flag ?

    It's PC gone mad...[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

    Also why on earth would someone protest about a US firetruck displaying a US flag ??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]




  3. #3
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

    There were reports of the flag/firetruck issue in various parts of the country after 9/11. Apparently many fire departments have policies against displaying various things on the trucks. I don't really understand these policies, and I respect freedom of speech, but maybe there is a reason that a firetruck should be just a firetruck and not a political statement. I mean if my house is burning I want the the firemen to be able to get the hoses out immediately, not after dismantling the flagpole and the campaign signs for the sheriff's re-election campaign and the county commissioner, school board and DARE program junk.

    Also, what if it were your tax dollars supporting a rolling billboard displaying a peace symbol or some other symbol that ran counter to your political outlook?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

    Joe I understand why you're mad but there is a much bigger picture you aren't seeing. The Admin guys came up through the ranks and were subjected to the constant pressure from the Union to conform to its view of America and the world. The International Association of Fire Fighters of which I was a member through Sept 2000 is one of the most extreme left wing organizations in America. It was the first organization to formally endorse Al Gore for president. From then till now it has constantly degraded President Bush to the point of telling its members they have no obligation to respect Pres Bush as he "stole" the election. The IAFF magazine's political articles sound like Communist Party propaganda. Go to your local station house and ask for a copy and see for yourself.

    At my former department if we displayed any form of the American flag while on duty we were subject to termination. This has changed since 9-11, thank God.

    I have do doubt the many in the Portland admin hate the flag and HATE President Bush and "his" war. The line fire fighters I hope are patriotic, not just eager to show the flag.

    All in all, call Portland FD and express your disgust for their lack of courage during this trying time. Ice cream delivered to your local station is always appreciated. Take the time to ask the FFs how things are going and listen to their answers. We all depend on their courage and strength at some time.

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    Flashaholic* GJW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..


  6. #6

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

    Firemen are without a doubt some of the greatest heroes in the nation, risking their lives in a non-combat role, yet having to maintain possibly some of the most restrictive and disciplined dictates of protocol of any career. This concerns their conduct, maintaining their equipment, relationship with their commanders and the upkeep and use of firetrucks and other related vehicles. I would imagine that alteration and additions to firetrucks, including the mounting of paraphernalia on it is not a personal decision, but is covered by very strict regulation. A firetruck is not a personal vehicle, nor is it involved in the conflicts that would require manifesting the nations it represents.

    The fire departments have come to be the nearest thing we have for emergency medical aid in the 'field' outside of emergency medical facilities. They are the closest parallel to the Red Cross we have domestically. What flag does the Red Cross operate under? Do you feel anger regarding them too?

    If a fireman chooses to display the flag on his own personal vehicle that's one matter. If he displays none in regard to his non-combat non-LEO responsibilities due to a disciplined regulatory protocol, that's another matter. Your anger is unjustified.

    (Last sentence edited in the interest of civility)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off trucks..

    While I would have to agree that the vehicles used by the FD/PD's are not personal property, and I agree as well that they are not places for a political platform, my view is that the display of the American flag is a form of support for many of the firefighters and LEO's that were called to duty. During the Gulf War, many of my colleagues were called up from their Reserve status to Active status from many branches of the U.S. military. Currently, during this crisis, over 700 members of my department have been activated once again for domestic and overseas military duty. Back then, and again today, I proudly wear an American flag lapel pin on my uniform, and display an American flag on the bumper of my department vehicle. I do so because I support my colleagues who have sacrificed their "normal" living arrangements, left their families, to answer the call for which they swore to delegate their best for the duties in which they serve to their country. Many firefighters are on active reserve, for which many have been called up for duty as well. It is not anywhere near a political statement; the size of my lapel pin is reasonable, the size of the bumper sticker is no more than 4"x6" - this is an ostensible display of support. And whatever individual feels that this is an unfair use of tax-payer equipment, allow me to point out that many of my brother and sister LEO's, as well as an innumerable score of firefighters, have paid the ultimate price for freedom in this country, and will continue to do so. There is an incredibly high price that has been paid for what we experience as liberty, and if I am to be discriminated against for being a public servant and have less of an equal share of my freedom to express support, then this country needs a slap in its proverbial face.

    When my former Chief of Police demanded that American flags be removed from patrol cars during the deployment of men and women to Afghanistan, an incredible outcry came pouring out from the community. Not from the officers. They knew their place, and he was, after all, the Chief. But why the outcry from the community if the officers were willing to comply? Because it was that same community that recognized that we had placed many of our own in harms way to fulfill their duty to their country. The support for those individuals deserve to be recognized. Two weeks later, the Chief authorized the placement of American flag stickers uniformly on every bumper of every patrol vehicle. Even he could recognize that there was no political antagonism in displaying a flag, only a dedication to embracing our own heroes.

    I am an American displaying an American flag, on an American vehicle, in an American city, serving the American people, upholding the U.S. and California Constitutions. Deny me that and I'll show you an indefinite score of Americans who are willing to stand up to that kind of ingnorance.

    -Jim

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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    The flag is the country's symbol. The entire country, not the politicritters in power at any given moment. Flags use colors and patterns, for the reason that in ancient times, literacy was certainly not common. Easier to remember colors and patterns for most people.

    I feel that everyone should disconnect in their minds, countries' flags, with the scheming politicritters. I may have pride in my country, but NOT in the politicritters in office. (not saying I do. Merely stating a dichotomy.)

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    Flashaholic* Silviron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Personally, I believe that all police vehicles (except undercover vehicles) and all fire dept. vehicles should be REQUIRED to have an American Flag sticker prominently displayed.

    After all, they have special rights and responsibilities under various and sundry federal laws, and also get supplementary funding from federal (taxpayer) funds.

    Therefore they can be considered an extension of federal government and therefore should be showing their allegiance to America.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc


    It AMAZES me that our Flag is looked upon as a political statement. It does anger me that displays of the Flag is not allowed on Portland's FD trucks. I have to do some diggin into the background of the story.
    PieThatCorner What was the reason that the chief decided to pull the flag? Any idea?
    Whether you agree with policy or not the flag is a symbol of how you can voice your distaste with policy.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Hi TOB...

    The Chief believed that the open display of an American flag was unprofessionally a declaration of a political statement demanding support of the U.S. - in addition, he believed it was not a professional image to have a rigged antenna on top of a patrol car with any size American flag.

    To play the Devil's advocate in the above latter reference, I feel compelled to agree that there is such a thing as too big and there's much to be said about uniformity when it comes to such a high visibility entity. The man had his good days and bad days - the allowance of American flag stickers on the bumper was a suprise concession, and backed by the City's mayor.

    -Jim

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    Flashaholic* FC.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    [ QUOTE ]
    mean if my house is burning I want the the firemen to be able to get the hoses out immediately, not after dismantling the flagpole and the campaign signs for the sheriff's re-election campaign and the county commissioner, school board and DARE program junk.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    **** Y O U

    [edited by lightlover]

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* FC.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    You want, you want , you want. How much did you donate to your local FD this year? Only 20% of fire departments are paid, the rest get by with hard fund-raising work. You go risk your life for free, [*comparison of CPF member and fecal matter removed*]. And then criticize any public safety member.

    Local 1 does not have any problem with US flag. Come to Pittsburgh, and check for yourself.

    [**edited by Darell.]

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    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    All that you guys say is well and good I suppose.

    THANK GOD here in Houston, no such CRAP has to be taken by OUR Goodguys!

    And the flag is a symbol of the UNITED STATES. Not the Republican party. Not the US Government.

    If it pisses off so many people in Portland, then maybe Portland is no longer in the US????

    I still fly a US Flag (as well as a Texas Flag) that went up shortly after 9-11-01. Also a magnetic Flag decal (around 5x12") on the back of my truck.

    Anybody wants to take down either one has to go through ME!!

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    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Oh and THANKS!!! for the Peggy Noonan link!!!!


  16. #16

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Which Portand, Joe? You didn't provide any links to your source.

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    Flashaholic* GJW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    [ QUOTE ]
    PlayboyJoeShmoe said:
    Oh and THANKS!!! for the Peggy Noonan link!!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    And with due respect to those that have fallen, I want to remind those that would disagree with the use of the American flag (by firefighters/LEO's alike) that I have attended as many funerals for officers killed in the line of duty, as that of firefighters. In both instances, their coffins were draped with the American flag. In the eyes of the beholder, there is always an appropriate place for the American flag on American soil. Service to the American public should allow the dignified display of an American flag from both the living and the fallen.

    -Jim

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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Empath:

    We all know which Portland,. You won't find that attitude in Portland Maine, nor any of the minor Portland's in the USA. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Wow! First time I have visited "The Cafe". You guys really get excited. I notice the " ---- You" was sanitized from earlier post. I think I like the professionalism displayed in the other areas of CPF, and I will vacate "The Cafe" forever.

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    Flashaholic Abe Furburger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    It's the first time I have seen such strong language here as well.

    I can understand that tempers are hot at the moment.

    So I will allow a little leeway and not complain to management.

    Abe.

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    *Flashaholic* Darell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Please don't give up on the CAFE because of one poor experience. Some threads get plenty heated, but few actually resort to name calling as you saw here.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    [ QUOTE ]
    Tombeis said:
    Empath:

    We all know which Portland,. You won't find that attitude in Portland Maine, nor any of the minor Portland's in the USA. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I live only 50 miles from Portland, Oregon. I guess it's not making the news here.

    That mayor would be Vera Katz, former speaker of the house in the Oregon Legislature, and she's been the mayor of Portland ever since. She's got an interesting past.

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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Darrell, thank you for your post. I did come back, after all, to see if there was a response. You are right, I should not, and I will not base my opinion of "The Cafe" on two posts. Thanks, Bill

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* Darell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    Good to hear, Bill, thanks for sticking with it! I think this thread has pretty much run it's course, so it probably won't last too much longer.

    FC - Do I even need to type what I'm thinking here? What's up with the profanity and name-calling? Name-calling and attacking members over their posted opinions simply won't be tolerated.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    lightlover,

    Is that you? What ever happened to that holiday?

    **Sorry to be off-topic but it is Jahn afterall**

    And we're back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...

  27. #27
    *Retired* The_LED_Museum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    I live in Seattle and it never made the news here... I've heard about some "flag bannings" in the past but not this one in Oregon. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

    My big flag was ruined in an earthquake a couple of years ago but I've got a couple of smaller ones to fly out the window and fly off my wheelchair, though I missed a few of the traditional "flag flying days" last year and early this year while I was in the hospital. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    To back up FC the flag flown on an engine dosen't get in the way of performance at a fire. If the flag staff breaks en route, oh well, we aren't stopping.

    Here in Kali and maybe all the left coast the flag is seen as a disgrace, a symbol of oppression as interpreted by the left wing city councils elected to public office. Don't be surprised by Portland's decision to remove the flag, even if their action was based on someone's idea of protecting fire department apparatus. The left coast city councils are elitists who have no regard for America. To them the war in Iraq will be a success only if we lose.

    In addition many cities see the FDs as a financial drain. They are like the water dept or the building dept or even PD. All these depts bring in money, while the FD is nothing but a drain on the general fund. This ideology causes some ill feelings toward the FD by mayors and city councils. of course these same people are at home in bed while the FFs are dealing with a combatative hiv heroin junkie who is spitting on them, cursing, and fighting. Or maybe while a council meeting is taking place and a resolution is passed to make the city a nuclear free zone, the FFs are working frantically to save the life of a 10 year old who was hit by a car.

    The engines deserve flags, the FFs our respect. Vent your disgust at admin and to the mayor.


  29. #29

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    [ QUOTE ]
    2dogs said:
    To back up FC the flag flown on an engine dosen't get in the way of performance at a fire. If the flag staff breaks en route, oh well, we aren't stopping.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    It wasn't what he meant, it is how he said it...

  30. #30

    Default Re: Portland Mayor makes FD take US Flags off truc

    [ QUOTE ]
    2dogs said:
    Here in Kali and maybe all the left coast the flag is seen as a disgrace, a symbol of oppression as interpreted by the left wing city councils elected to public office. Don't be surprised by Portland's decision to remove the flag, even if their action was based on someone's idea of protecting fire department apparatus. The left coast city councils are elitists who have no regard for America. To them the war in Iraq will be a success only if we lose.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can't speak for California; perhaps it is as you say. But, the attitude you speak of being a characteristic of the whole west coast isn't accurate. I realize that the strongest of efforts to californicate Oregon have been made in the last decade or so, but it hasn't succeeded yet. A large percentage of our homes are flying the flag, and have ever since 9/11. The people I speak with support our troops, and the concern is apparent. One of our own is missing in action as a result of the capture recently. It's front page news and is felt by the entire community, if not the entire state. We may not be Muskogee, but we still fly Old Glory down at the courthouse, by golly.

    Of course I can't speak for Eugene. Only Eugene speaks for Eugene.

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