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Thread: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!??

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* AlexGT's Avatar
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    Default Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!??

    Sasha put the following banner
    "NOTICE!!
    As of April 1st, product announcements and specials will no longer be allowed in this forum.
    Dealers, distributors and manufacturers who are CPF sponsors, please post your specials and announcements in the Dealer's Corner or Manufacturer's Announcements Forums. Non-commercial business transactions between individual CPF members can be posted in the Buy/Sell/Trade Forum.
    Dealers, distributors and manufacturers who wish to become a CPF sponsor, please contact me at
    sasha@candlepowerforums.com"

    I am intrigued about this, so this means we wont see anymore of Mrbulk┤s brilliant ideas, or AB┤s or lamda┤s or Electrolumen┤s and the list of great modders goes on? the reviews, the mods etc.? What will happen to the open forum where manufacturers recieved endless advise about their flashlights?

    Gosh! hope I am reading wrong or this is going to get boring, what┤s up? please explain!

    Thnx!
    Alex

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    This is talking meerly about Sales. No more free advertising for dealers and manufacturers. I'm not sure where modders like Lambda and Mr.Bulk stand, they're in a grey area.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* snuffy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!??

    Applies to dealers, distributors and manufacturers I believe. Not "modders".
    I could be wrong, it's late [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    and it doesn't mean James meyer can't say "How should I imprive the PALight" it means that if he isn't paying for ad space, he can't say "All CPF members get 20% off PALights this week"

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* Darell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    It's all good...

    The main idea is that all *selling* threads by dealers will be confined to the dealer forum.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* Wits' End's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    This was addressed somewhere and modders are to go to B/S/T. I think it was David who said those who are contribting members are allowed "commercial" time. If there are any qestions I think you are sposed to contact David.

    Please forgive the u's bad keyboard on laptop [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Perhaps the dealers and manufacturer's forums should be renamed to "Friends of CPF" or Sponsors or something perhaps more appropriate to reflect the intended situation.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Does this mean that Non-advertising-sponsoring entities can not post any ads?

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* x-ray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!??

    [ QUOTE ]
    AlexGT said:
    Sasha put the following banner
    "NOTICE!!
    As of April 1st, product announcements and specials will no longer be allowed in this forum.
    Dealers, distributors and manufacturers who are CPF sponsors, please post your specials and announcements in the Dealer's Corner or Manufacturer's Announcements Forums. Non-commercial business transactions between individual CPF members can be posted in the Buy/Sell/Trade Forum.
    Dealers, distributors and manufacturers who wish to become a CPF sponsor, please contact me at
    sasha@candlepowerforums.com"

    I am intrigued about this, so this means we wont see anymore of Mrbulk┤s brilliant ideas, or AB┤s or lamda┤s or Electrolumen┤s and the list of great modders goes on? the reviews, the mods etc.? What will happen to the open forum where manufacturers recieved endless advise about their flashlights?

    Gosh! hope I am reading wrong or this is going to get boring, what┤s up? please explain!

    Thnx!
    Alex


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Have a look at this thread, should answer your questions/concerns.

  10. #10
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!??

    Alex,

    I put that header in two of CPF's forums. Actually, I think you are confusing terminology. A forum is a sub-category on the Main Index page of this bulletin board. The categories of this bulletin board are (for example) General Flashlight, Non-Flashlight Lights, Off Topic, etc. The sub-categories, or forums, are (for example) Homemade and Modified Lights, Lanterns, Reviews, The Cafe, etc.

    So now that we're clear on terminology, read what I posted again. I don't think that it is unreasonable to ask that those who are making money from sales on CPF, contribute a bit back. So far, all of our sponsors have been more than happy to make a donation in exchange for advertising space. For their donation, they have been given exclusive rights to advertise. Why should someone who isn't contributing to the maintenance and upkeep of CPF be allowed the same privileges of those who don't? We think that this new policy is more than fair to everyone and so far, so do they. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Thanks to all who have become CPF sponsors. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]


  11. #11
    Flashaholic* Skyline's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!??

    Hi,

    Just wanted to say that this new policy is pretty standard practice. I think generally dealers/manufacturers have been well behaved at CPF, but things could quickly get out of hand without a policy like the one to be established.

    Good job!

  12. #12
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    CiTY said:
    Does this mean that Non-advertising-sponsoring entities can not post any ads?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If you wish to post a non-commercial "ad" (better term would be "announcement") that would be a private transaction between individual members of CPF, that would go in the Buy/Sell/Trade forum.

  13. #13
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Saaby said:
    This is talking meerly about Sales. No more free advertising for dealers and manufacturers. I'm not sure where modders like Lambda and Mr.Bulk stand, they're in a grey area.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They would post in Buy/Sell/Trade as they are not commercial at this time. I would hope that when and if their status changes, they would contact me to become a CPF sponsor... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


  14. #14
    Flashaholic* treek13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Sasha said:
    They would post in Buy/Sell/Trade as they are not commercial at this time. I would hope that when and if their status changes, they would contact me to become a CPF sponsor... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Like Wayne (aka ElektroLumens) new sponsor of CPF and full time flashlight tycoon. Now if we can just get Charlie (Mr. Bulk) and Kevin (Lambda) to go full time ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Pat

  15. #15

    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Erm... would this recent "dash for profitablity" have anything to do with the explosion of USA-generated spam in my inbox in the last week or so ? Or am I being paranoid ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* treek13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    No, I doubt it. It isn't so much a dash for profitability as a walk/jog for breaking even.

    Check here for the facts: This Space For Rent! .

    Given David and Sasha's attitudes, I cannot believe they would ever sell CPF'ers e-mail addresses.

    Pat

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* x-ray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Mr_Sesmesesles said:
    Erm... would this recent "dash for profitablity" have anything to do with the explosion of USA-generated spam in my inbox in the last week or so ? Or am I being paranoid ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    CPF is a non-profit board owned by DavidW and run solely for the benefit of its members, The banner adds are required simply to pay for the huge amount of bandwidth we use.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Cross post from Suggestions , Ill leave it to a moderator to see where it belongs ;-)

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As of April 1st, product announcements and specials will no longer be allowed in this forum.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Completely understand that CPF has grown larger and now has running costs that must be taken care of, however, is it in everyones best interests to limit product announcements to only those companies who wish to continue with banner advertsing?

    From the point of view that CPF is where many turn to as their news feed for what is new in LED land.

    Some manufacturers, dealers and observers may only wish to inform people of new product once, as part of a publicty campaign or for public relations.

    These products may not be entirely aimed at the flashlight market or they may feel that the largely U.S. demographic of CPF would not warrant a banner campaign.

    They may be manufacturers not equipped to supply to retail customers but nonetheless wish to infrom the public at large of their new product while distribution channels are appointed.

    There are products where the first I learned of them, was from CPF, Freelight is one that springs to mind.

    Banning all but paying advertisers from making overt product announcements I fear may have a couple of negative effects.

    One, the greatest danger, is that manufacturers will no longer feel their input is valued at CPF, a loss to everyone.

    The other is less scrupulous `advertisers` will employ other tactics to place their product. Spurious reccomendation`s in Cheers and Jeers for instance.

    Perhaps the rules could be adjusted allowing manufacturers a single new product announcement thread, allowing them to announce a new product and answer any questions from CPF members.Beyond that their are moderators available and authorised to remove multiple announcements or spamming across the board.

    Not speaking from any commercial self interest, my involvement with LEDs is generally not at the consumer end of things, but with genuine and great concern that only allowing paid for advertisers air time may have far reaching and unpredictable effects that will negatively impact CPF as a whole.

    Adam

    Sabby points me to this and other thread, my reply:


    Yup Sabby, already have, none of my points appear to have been already considered, they may well have but are not answered in either of those threads.

    Perhaps I should continue this thread in the Cafe, I`ll post it there as well and you delete the one that you feel is in wrong place.

    Ta
    Adam


  19. #19
    Flashaholic* DavidW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    CPF email addresses are never for sale. But some have been culled from the board in the past. Mostly from the profiles. Sometimes from spiders. If someone has figured out how to get them out of threads I wouldn't be surprised.

    Don't worry about product announcements. I'm already on it. After the policy was finalized I realized it squashes the little guy before he/she can get started. And I realized not all manufacturers/dealers want to put up a banner ad just to advertise a new product or announce a special. I'm thinking of a one time use fee. When Sasha is through with jury duty I'll get her input. She's more business minded than I am. She used to run a travel agency.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* DavidW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    P.S. The new rules are in place to protect those who choose to advertise on CPF. It does not make sense to charge someone for ad space while giving another person a free pass.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    P.S. The new rules are in place to protect those who choose to advertise on CPF. It does not make sense to charge someone for ad space while giving another person a free pass.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Completely understand, those who help to fund CPF should receive the benefits.

    Think my thought is more with manufacturers announcing new product, from the little guys with something new to the big guys with something new.

    Yup, small makers don`t have the budget to splurge out left and right on advertising and may just be looking for feedback, on something that is a beta prototype and even a one time charge, may be more than they can afford.Perhaps turning to usenet or other forums for feedback.

    Large manufacturers may look at an announcement in CPF as one in a long list of press releases and won`t be making any payments for publishing a press release.

    If its new think most of CPF want to hear about it, but a one time announcement and possible follow on thread for queries should be all that is allowed for non sponsors.

    As one of the dealers has already noted a thread in any particular forum drops down the page pretty quickly. Don`t see a one time new product announce in one forum,as competing with banner ads at top of every page.

    Dealers with CPF members offers etc. are perhaps different, they expect to see an immediate increase in sales and profit from an announcement and will see benefit even from paying a one time payment.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Adam






  22. #22
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    I am a little uncomfortable about just advertisers being able to post specials. I am all for banners for paid advertisers. It just seems this is resticting competitive market conditions and increases the cost of our "hobby" to it's own members. My one cents in opinion.

  23. #23
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    LED-FX said:
    Some manufacturers, dealers and observers may only wish to inform people of new product once, as part of a publicty campaign or for public relations.

    ~~This would still be advertising. And I seriously doubt it would be "only once".

    These products may not be entirely aimed at the flashlight market or they may feel that the largely U.S. demographic of CPF would not warrant a banner campaign.

    ~~That's unfortunate... it's still advertising.

    They may be manufacturers not equipped to supply to retail customers but nonetheless wish to infrom the public at large of their new product while distribution channels are appointed.

    That is what Buy/Sell/Trade is for. Obviously, someone who fits this description is not dealing commercially.

    Banning all but paying advertisers from making overt product announcements I fear may have a couple of negative effects.

    ~~... Maybe so, but I doubt it. Already, almost everyone has jumped on the bannerad wagon. And anyone who begrudges CPF the funds to maintain itself, is really not someone we want to deal with, is it?

    One, the greatest danger, is that manufacturers will no longer feel their input is valued at CPF, a loss to everyone.

    ~~I beg to differ. The manufacturers who have been doing business on CPF for quite some time now know better and it would be obvious to any newcomers that that is not the case.

    The other is less scrupulous `advertisers` will employ other tactics to place their product. Spurious reccomendation`s in Cheers and Jeers for instance.

    ~~This will not be allowed. Moderators will be deleting posts and topics.

    Perhaps the rules could be adjusted allowing manufacturers a single new product announcement thread, allowing them to announce a new product and answer any questions from CPF members.Beyond that their are moderators available and authorised to remove multiple announcements or spamming across the board.

    ~~Looks like David partially agrees with you... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] As he said, I will be able to look at this a little better when I'm done with jury duty. My mind is pretty much mush at night when I get home and thinking is painful. My last day of jury duty should be next Monday.

    Adam

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Adam... thank you for your input. CPF is the the unique and awesome community it is because for the most part, the members have built it. The features and rules and forums etc etc have all been because of input from members. It may not be perfect and exactly the way some of you want it, but y'all gotta admit... it's pretty damn close. We will only continue to grow from here... and what you all have to say does matter... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Some manufacturers, dealers and observers may only wish to inform people of new product once, as part of a publicty campaign or for public relations.

    ~~This would still be advertising. And I seriously doubt it would be "only once".


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Once without paying is all they get with good moderation or the jury of CPF members looking at someone trying to constantly push the same product.

    [ QUOTE ]
    These products may not be entirely aimed at the flashlight market or they may feel that the largely U.S. demographic of CPF would not warrant a banner campaign.

    ~~That's unfortunate... it's still advertising.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Its still LED related and if its new myself and many others would like to know about it.

    [ QUOTE ]
    They may be manufacturers not equipped to supply to retail customers but nonetheless wish to infrom the public at large of their new product while distribution channels are appointed.

    That is what Buy/Sell/Trade is for. Obviously, someone who fits this description is not dealing commercially.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Quite the opposite was thinking about large manufacturing concerns developing product aimed at the consumer market. They run factories not mail order.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Banning all but paying advertisers from making overt product announcements I fear may have a couple of negative effects.

    ~~... Maybe so, but I doubt it. Already, almost everyone has jumped on the bannerad wagon. And anyone who begrudges CPF the funds to maintain itself, is really not someone we want to deal with, is it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Calm down, Calm Down not getting at you or the idea of banner ads. Almost everyone who was here already you mean, its a barrier to entry for anyone new though.

    [ QUOTE ]
    One, the greatest danger, is that manufacturers will no longer feel their input is valued at CPF, a loss to everyone.

    ~~I beg to differ. The manufacturers who have been doing business on CPF for quite some time now know better and it would be obvious to any newcomers that that is not the case.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Mr Gonz might disagree :-) but got to encourage manufacturers to come here and find out it is a worthwhile place to invest in, you and I both know it is, but a passing PR secretary from Korea may not readily gain that impression.

    Last thing we need is CPF to turn into an exclusive club or like a magazine that has most of its editorial edited by its advertisers.

    [ QUOTE ]
    The other is less scrupulous `advertisers` will employ other tactics to place their product. Spurious reccomendation`s in Cheers and Jeers for instance.

    ~~This will not be allowed. Moderators will be deleting posts and topics.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    It is something to be aware of and sometimes hard to spot but ceratinly calls for a big Jeer if anyone is caught doing it.

    [ QUOTE ]
    ~~Looks like David partially agrees with you... As he said, I will be able to look at this a little better when I'm done with jury duty. My mind is pretty much mush at night when I get home and thinking is painful. My last day of jury duty should be next Monday.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hey Sasha, you know everyone holds yourself and DavidW in the highest esteem, its a heck of a lot of work you put in here and sometimes we don`t say thanks enough, but your much much appreciated.Mebbe a day off between jury duty and herding the cats here ;-)

    Adam










  25. #25
    Flashaholic* darkgear.com's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    The price of banner advertising on CPF is very very very reasonable. Anyone wanting to make a product announcement would be foolish not to just pay the monthly fee and post whatever they want. It benefits the CPF and no doubt any annoucement of any product would lead to sales that would cover the cost of advertising here.

    Best regards,
    Randy

  26. #26
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Thanks Randy... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Also, I don't think Chris from flashlightlens.com will mind if I share this email with you all:

    [ QUOTE ]
    Thanks - Believe or not, I can actually tell from my sales that you switched it. This banner thing is COOL.

    Thanks!!!!!
    Chris


    [/ QUOTE ]

    It works guys! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* DavidW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    I'm thinking of a one time small fee for a single post for specials. Many single posts are possible as long as the fee is paid for each one. Obviously an established manufacturer, distributor or dealer can pay for 10 years of ad space and not sweat it. This is aimed at the little guy just starting out and just wants to put a feeler out.

    Anything free can be abused. So the one free pass option will not be considered.

    The one time fee can be used by manufacturers and dealers big and small to introduce themselves. This area is possible for a one free pass. I'm still mulling it over.

    We'll let the marketing department of manufacturers decide how they want to represent their product on CPF. Individual members are still allowed to post their latest find.

    We will have to ban advertising from non-paying advertisers. This is to protect the interests and investment of those who do pay. No way around that. But I'm working on a way to help out the little guy just starting out.

    Don't worry. Just because it's not out in the open doesn't mean we haven't considered it. I'm still working on this gray area.

    Unfortunately CPF will have to be an exclusive club from now on in order for it to continue to exist. But I'm working on different levels of support so no one is entirely shut out.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Dave, Sasha,

    I have no idea why you guys put so much work and thought into this thing, but thanks.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* AlexGT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Well, after reading all the posts I think that the banner thing of products related to the forum is a good move, I think is fair for the ones sponsoring our forum to get business from it.

    A suggestion, please inform all the companies that usually post here of the new rules so their posts don`t get deleted instantaneously, making them feel not welcome, and if they do post an ad, a polite mail with the advertising options while the thread gets temporary locked or something, and if they don`t agree then sorry but "business is business", thread deleted and future ad posts deleted also.

    Another question. How will you diferentiate between modder and manufacturer? I am thinking about CNC Dan, or McGizmo for example, they sometimes make flashlights or parts from scratch, will they be modders or manufacturers?

    I think this business practice is good, just be very clear on the policy so there are no misunderstandings and frictions among members.

    keep up the good work![img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

    Alex

    Ps. Please NO popups also!!!

  30. #30
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banning of dealers and Manufacturers in CPF?!?

    Thanks for your input Alex. As you can imagine, I'm sure, we're already on top of everything. We really did try not to just throw this together without any thought... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Let's try not to make this more complicated than it is, guys. We can sit here all day and discuss "if's"... If a bullfrog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass. Leave the technical crap to us and know that we either have ways of dealing with situations or we are working on it.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I have no idea why you guys put so much work and thought into this thing, but thanks.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You have no idea? Really?!? How about so that you all have a place to come to? ... You're welcome, Tom... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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