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Thread: Luxim Plasma Bulb Claims 140 Lumens/Watt

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Panasonic has announced that they're going to be using a new electrodeless HID technology in a series of projection TV sets. This new lamp is being called "LiFi" (Light Fidelity).

    It looks interesting. It uses a microwave source to energize the gas mixture in the light capsule.

    So my question is this: How much microwave energy are these things going to radiate? I'm sure the pump wavelength has been optimized for maximum energy transfer to the particular mixture of gas, but still - that's gotta take a lot of microwave energy to produce enough light for an RPTV.

    Every microwave oven I've ever been around had some measurable amount of leakage. Am I to believe that these TV sets won't?

    Will my TV set be able to pop my popcorn as I watch?
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    Flashaholic* yuandrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    That article is from January of this year. The lamp is being developed by Luxim

    http://www.luxim.com/

    The entire light engine (including the driver electronics and magnetron tube) consumes 250 watts. I looked up the ratings and found it to produce 4400 ANSI lumens in typical projector applications.

    Anyway, go buy yourself any of the following model Panasonic Rear Projection TVs that were just released yesterday; they are using these light engine.

    PT-50LCZ70 50" 1080p LiFi HDTV
    PT-56LCZ70 56" 1080p LiFi HDTV
    PT-61LCZ70 61" 1080p LiFi HDTV

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* chesterqw's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    250 watts for 4400lumens...
    17.6lumens/watt

    oh well... not for flashaholics but for "long life"
    if killing was legal, i would have killed countless number of people...

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    Flashaholic* matrixshaman's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Yep - Microwave and your MTV. LiFi = Life Finite. No thanks.
    There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Almine

  5. #5

    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Obviously they expect that the public cannot understand that this is NOT A HID! It is a RF excited plasma. Not the same thing. Lamps similar to these have been used in the semiconductor industry for photoresist ashing for over 15 years.

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    *Flashaholic* James S's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    so what is the "fill material" then? Is this like those microwave sulphur ball lights that we were so jazzed about years ago but which never quite made mainstream?

    I want to see emissions on these as I can't have one if it's going to mess up my WiFi I'm betting that it runs on 2.5Ghz but I suppose we could be getting it all wrong and it might be like those new RF bulbs that run around 300mhz?

    There isn't much information on their websites as of yet.
    -James

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    Flashaholic* yuandrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    I saw two Panasonic LCD rear projection LiFi sets (a 50" and a 65" model) at my Fry's electronics. I decided to look in the back of the TV where the light engine would usually be located. There is a "Bay Window" style vent on the lower right side of the TV with a fan behind it blowing out the warm air from the light engine and you could see the heat-sink on the bottom of the LiFi unit past the fan.


    As usual, a bit of light from the source leaks out around where it shines into the color filters and LCD elements so the area under the heat sink was lit up with a bluish-white glow. Just to test how it warms up, I turned off the TV which caused the picture to go out and the "Power" LED to flash red but when I looked in the back of the TV right after, the light engine was still lit so turning the TV back on would cause the picture to come back instantly. I turned it off again and watched the back of the TV; the light engine remained on for about a minute before it completely turned off but the fan continued to run for another two minutes before it stopped and the flashing red LED on the front went steady. I waited another three minutes to let the light engine cool further before I turned it back on and watched the back of the TV. First the fan started followed by two relays clicking and a faint buzzing sound. Then the lamp started with a dim greenish white color which got brighter over the next 8 seconds and was followed by a half second flash of blue (think blue LED) which gave way to bluish white that continued on to pure white at full brightness.

    I didn't really compare the colors too much to the conventional Toshiba DLP set sitting next to it but it did appear richer in many darker scenes.

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Wow. Thanks for the report, Yuandrew! So these have actually made it to retail shelves. Now what would it take to convert that light engine to a flashlight? (Besides some major RF shielding!)

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* yuandrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Wow. Thanks for the report, Yuandrew! So these have actually made it to retail shelves. Now what would it take to convert that light engine to a flashlight? (Besides some major RF shielding!)
    The entire light engine unit already seems to be RF shielded. I think all you need to do is find out what voltage and control logic is needed for operation so you can construct a power supply then enclose the both the unit and your power supply in a case which could be easily carried.

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    Flashaholic* yuandrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Well, someone is holding onto one of these.



    http://www.proavmagazine.com/industr...ticleID=602992

    There are also other light sources shown used for projection; including the LED(s) used in the Samsung LED DLP sets and a diagram for Mitsubishi's LASER diode based DLP

  11. #11

    Default Luxim Plasma Bulb Claims 140 Lumens/Watt

    http://www.news.com/Luxims-tiny-but-...3-6234653.html

    How do we fit this into a flashlight???

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Szemhazai's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    Bringing back from the dead..
    They announce new version of their system 144 lum/w - somebody knows some more details ?
    Enlightened member of pl.rec.rowery
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    Flashaholic* WadeF's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    Pretty wild. They said 140 lumens per watt, and they were running it at 250w, so was it putting out around 35,000 lumens?
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    It burns at over 5700°C, I don't think I want that thing anywhere close to my hand!

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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    And what kind of battery pack would you need to power the thing?

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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    It is not a LED
    Looks alike Sulphur plasma http://www.sulphurplasma.com/sulphur-plasma.htm

  17. #17

    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    Damn!! Gimme one!!!

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* 2xTrinity's Avatar
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    Default Re: New "LiFi" electrodeless HID lamp

    250 watts for 4400lumens...
    17.6lumens/watt

    oh well... not for flashaholics but for "long life"
    ANSI lumens is a meausre of light output from the projector, not from the bulb. So that's after losses in the reflector, optics, and color filters. If that's true, that's EXTREMELY efficient for a projector. Most waste over 90% of the light input, even when the screen is displaying 100% white pixels. I doubt this lamp is putting out 200lm/w, so they must be using particularly efficient optics in the projector.

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* Gunner12's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    LED?

    It sounds more like a Sulfur Plasma to me.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic a4d's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    Now just wait for "RA" to put one in a light.
    Last edited by a4d; 03-18-2008 at 04:43 PM.
    "Better To Have It And Not Need It, Then Need It And Not Have It." (Paul White.) -->'///>(

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* Federal LG's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED


    "I LOVE THE SMELL OF LITHIUM BATTERIES IN THE MORNING..." - Kilgore

  22. #22
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    Default

    +1

    but I want the 5, 10 and 15 W version, too



    PS: can anyone with more background than me explain if this is a hoax, or not?
    How can this thing work "without electrical contacts"
    Last edited by yellow; 03-18-2008 at 05:12 PM.

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* Gunner12's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    If it is like the Sulfur Plasma lamp, then Wikipedia has a decent explanation. Electrodeless lamps link might help too.

    I don't have any background, just providing links.

  24. #24
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Plasma LED

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow View Post
    PS: can anyone with more background than me explain if this is a hoax, or not?
    How can this thing work "without electrical contacts"
    If you placed one of those glass plasma capsules in a microwave oven and turned it on, it would light up. Same idea.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic Tachikoma's Avatar
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    Default Is there a 400w LED?

    http://gizmodo.com/369372/luxims-250...away-400w-leds
    I didn't even know 400wLEDs existed

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there a 400w LED?

    Oh good grief.

    I've heard that fact-checking is becoming a lost art in the race to be the first to get a scoop. Sometimes it results in embarrassing gaffes like this one.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Is there a 400w LED?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhotonWrangler View Post
    Oh good grief.

    I've heard that fact-checking is becoming a lost art in the race to be the first to get a scoop. Sometimes it results in embarrassing gaffes like this one.
    Thats pretty sad, how they write like they know what is going on.

    I would guess they meant HID, if they even know what it is.
    And diff_lock said, Let there be light: and there was light.

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there a 400w LED?

    Quote Originally Posted by diff_lock2 View Post
    Thats pretty sad, how they write like they know what is going on.

    I would guess they meant HID, if they even know what it is.
    The video demo clearly mentioned a comparison to an HID streetlight; you can see that it's an arc lamp and not an LED. Even if they didn't know what HID is, they could've studied the video before writing about it.
    Last edited by PhotonWrangler; 03-18-2008 at 07:06 PM.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Gryloc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there a 400w LED?

    Even though that story is just silly and confusing, I found out that there are super high power LEDs. I got a strange email today from this Jiangsu Bright Optoelectronic Technology Co. It sent me to this link:
    http://www.eleclight.cn/index.htm

    There, you will see a large selection of high power LED packages, including a 500W emitter! Just click on the 50-500W link. I think this is the same company that makes the 10W, 20W, and 50W LEDs you see on DX. They claim 40lm/W with the 500W emitter, and 45lm/W with the 200W emitter. Even though these things are not terribly efficient, the fact that they make these super high power emitters is nuts! I am kind of curious about the pricing of these things, and their availability. If you want to know more about them, and how they found me through my high power LED Yahoo group, just PM me. I think they thought that I produced products featuring high power LEDs, and that I would be interested in buying their stuff. It is hard to tell with the very broken English, though.

    Sorry if this does not pertain to the above article and this thread, but I thought that it would be interesting to share...

    -Tony

    EDIT: Actually, check out the news page of the Luxim website:
    http://www.lifi.com/dynamic/events.php

    Look for the two stories mentioning the efficiency and the flux of this new light bulb. Though they do not indicate the bulb being the size of a tictac, they should be describing the same thing as funny the Gizmoto article above.

    So, when will we see small scale mini-tictacs that can be used in converted maglites that outshines those 10W HID lights? When will CPF member Ra get a hold of one of these and puts it into his famous Maxablaster lantern? That would be nice. He will burn your retinas out from 8 miles away instead of 4...
    Last edited by Gryloc; 03-18-2008 at 11:31 PM.

  30. #30
    Unenlightened
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    Default New Plasma Lightbulb!

    (Admin, you may move this to a more appropriate place--sorry, got amazed and wanted to share asap)

    now this is pretty cool! Maybe future of flashlights as well?

    http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-32509.html

    Fred

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