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Thread: Leave your DSL connected?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Leave your DSL connected?

    is it safe to leave your dsl connected when you're not on the computer? i usually disconnect and turn the monitor off but my brother leaves his connected, just turns off his monitor. he says not to worry about hackers as they're not after me. i don't keep anything stored in my computer.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* flownosaj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    I turn mine off if I'm not going to be around it for more than an hour. I've got some firewall protection, but I saw how "good" the ant-virus software from the same company was ([img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]) so I'm not entirely confident.

    -Jason

  3. #3
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    My router keeps my DSL connection always on and it is shared between two computers. The main computer is only shut down when on vacation. The router has hardware firewall protection and I run Norton Internet Security as well which contains a software firewall as well as Norton Anti-virus. In two years, my set-up has never been penetrated by hackers to the best of my knowledge and I've only had one virus via email in which Norton promptly caught.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    i have firewall, which i downloaded for free and norton anti virus. so far one virus norton caught, but i had to scan to get it.

    i think i'll keep turning mine off just to be safe.

  5. #5
    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Zonealarm!!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Sigman said:
    Zonealarm!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yep, that's what i have.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Behind NAT (Hardware) firewall. They're simple but fairly hacker-proof from what I understand. Then I add a wireless router to the mix, effectively poking holes in all my security [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    [ QUOTE ]
    tkl said:
    he says not to worry about hackers as they're not after me. i don't keep anything stored in my computer.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    These kids scan for open IP addresses, they don't know if it's "you" or not until they're in. It's quite possible someone already was. I'd get a Linksys DSL router and Norton AntiVirus as a minimum. You can probably do both for about $60 if you shop around on the web. Even if you don't have anything you think is worth stealing, someone can plant a password (or credit card) stealing program, or a script kiddie could make you part of a DOS attack. Check out grc.com when you get a chance for a good explanation of how it all happens.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Hmmm, I must really be paranoid ... we are running Zone Alarm, plus other programs for firewall and virus protection, have a router, have utility power & phone line transient voltage surge suppression and still, the standing rule in the "Lighthouse" is that the DSL & PC power lines are unplugged when not in use. Moving to DSL did help as there is some fiber optic distribution involved, but it is still copper into the house.

    YMMV due to different weather conditions, infrastructure and power generation / distribution systems.

    Actually not paranoid, just tired of replacing equipment due to power induced computer problems. All of our immediate power and phone lines are overhead, between the poles getting hit by cars which sometimes causes high voltage power lines to contact low voltage communication lines, and the occassional lightning induced events, it has been much less expensive to simply unplug. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif[/img]

    The unplugging also reduces the overall exposure to hacking and hijacking of our computers since they are turned off and disconected.

    Bottom line, once bit, twice shy. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif[/img]

  10. #10

    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Bill.H,
    Yep, WELL SAID...I've been a fan of Steve Gibson for several years and learned quite a bit from reading the information on his sites. If you're not paranoid when you start reading, you will be when you finish reading his stuff. He has a great manner of explaining "geek speak" to us "geekless" types. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    Hate to think that my PC was being used without my knowledge, much less to be remotely operated as a base for D.O.S. attacks. Simply having and using DSL makes one more of a target by hackers.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* NightStorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    ZoneAlarm, Norton System Works, cable modem OFF when not online. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

    Dan

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    I just wish I could get DSL... heck, I can't even get cable internet to my home. Just plain unavailable. As far as Dish Network Satellite connection - $75 bucks a month. Ouch...

    Buuuuuut, if I ever do get cable, then it's Black Ice Defender and Norton Simon Museum... eh, I mean Norton Symantec System Works... plus, turn off the PC and move it to another room. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  13. #13
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    what's a router? i disconnect but leave my modem on, should i turn it off too?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    I leave cable modem on, as it is connected to my UPS. I shutdown my PC when I go to bed or have to go out. I run AVG Antivirus, which catches stuff that norton and the other one don't (even before the others have virus defs out). Since I got AVG, I have never got an email virus/worm.

    no firewall here on win98se, though Mandrake Linux has one on by default. I haven't found a win98 firewall that didn't slow down my system and annoy the heck out of me.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    It is suggested that you check out www.GRC.COM and Steve Gibson's commentary on Black Ice before you invest in it. He provides ratings and a fairly direct evaluation of these types of software, without pulling any punches.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    PieThatCorner I thought Honeywell had a dish service for a lot less than 75/mo and with decent download speed (*upload sucks and is via 56K telephone line, but that might be okay?)

    I have cable, so I'm not sure since of the price I'm just going on vague recollection.

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    This Gateway box I'm on right now is on DSL. DSL in my case has GREAT through-put but CRAPPY Ping Time.

    This thing crashes so often that we NEVER leave it on if we are not in the room with it.

    When it used to be better, we did. And twice we caught something, one time serious. Now the others that use this box aren't as up on it all as I am and they could have screwed it up.

    Anyhow, at THIS time we do not leave it connected.


  18. #18
    *Flashaholic* James S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    The main target for these folks is indeed you. There is nothing better than an unprotected windows box connected to cable or DSL. They don't care what you've got on your machine, there is very little of interest to them (Unless you've got your CC#'s in there) what they are most interested in is gaining control of your machine to use against other folks in DOS attacks.

    If I even began to tell you what I think about windows security you'd all just tune out and wander off, so I'll keep it short.

    All those software firewall solutions that run on the same machine are suspect. After all they are running on the same physical machine and are software based. Therefore software exploits will find a way around them, the traffic is already getting to your box and just hopefully being intercepted.

    To anyone who actually thinks that they want to run windows get yourself a hardware router. They are cheap. Set up a NAT network so that your PC is on a non-routable address like 10.0.1.1 or something like that. This way they cannot actually send packets to your computer without fooling your router into forwarding them. Basically any packet that isn't part of a conversation that you started on purpose gets thrown out.

    But, just because you've done this doesn't mean your safe from anything already on your machine. Those programs make outgoing connections which are not filtered by the router so you're still messed up if they are already in and you don't know it.

    of course, the ultimate solution is to explore an alternate OS. Otherwise you'll find that your crop is suffering from the same potato blight as everyone elses and when they go down, so will you...

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Alternate OSes have their flaws too mind you...just..less of them

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* James S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Besides the point [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Does that mean that you should continue to use the one with the most?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Nah, just meant you can't drop all your security because you're using a superior OS.

  22. #22
    Farewell our Curmudgeon Administrator Roy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Since my ISP started scanning for viruses, my Norton has not caught anything. I use Black Ice Defender for my DSL protection. I also run Ad-aware and Ad-watch...scary how much they pick up!

  23. #23
    *Flashaholic* James S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Good internet hygiene is always necessary, no matter what! Except for me it's more like brushing your teeth twice a day and less like being on IV Cipro all the time in the isolation ward...

  24. #24

    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    It's not a matter of a superior OS as much as it is popularity. If I wanted to reach as many machines as possible, why would I target anything other than what's mostly out there.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Agreed with James S, seperate the firewall.
    If you're going to go the alternate OS approach I personally recommend OpenBSD firstly (in this case) because PF's syntax is infinitly more intuitive than FreeBSD/NetBSD's IPF or Linux's IPTables, second because it kinda just b---hslaps the rest.
    More info on PF and this will be of special intrest if you go this way.

    Also, I'm not sure about in general but my particular DSL equipment supports access control lists. Sortof a basic stateless firewall. It's a Zyxel 642M. A thing about it though. I'd just like to point out that over a *year* ago I called Sprint and told them that the 642M's default password was a joke, and that it accepted telnet connections from the outside. And get this sh!t, it supports logging to a remote syslog! What this means is that anyone could log into it, and tell it to send logs to anywhere they wished [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif[/img] They laughed at me. Well, about a month ago I recieve a letter saying I need to change its default password and to goto some site to learn more about the problem... dorks.

    Anyway, back to point, I have ADSL and leave it on 24/7/365. And it's on a static IP anyway (like $7/mo extra). I just sit and laugh at all the random attempts, as it simply does not respond to anything that doesn't have a state associated with it and logs it for my morning humor. And it cleans up obviously strange packets that are destined to any of my windows boxes (the scrub option). Eh, I'm going to shut up before I start rambling. Basicly, it's a hell of a learning curve but any new OS will be (though PF itself is a baby to set up), and the rewards are more than worth it.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    i am totally lost.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    Erm, just real the FAQ's and such on the first link [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    I'll echo what Flow & James said. A standard redhat installation as it comes out of the box is WIDE open. If you must use a Unix clone, use BSD.


    PS I got a Linksys router from amazon a while ago for $50 and they even had a special for a free (albeit a cheapy) digital camera with it. Don't know if it's still available.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    When my internet-to-PC connection is in doubt, I contact James S to explore my options. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Leave your DSL connected?

    I use a Linksys router with NAT behind the modem and Zonealarm pro 3.x on the three laptops and one desktop system that are connected. I could harden this setup by switching to a Cisco router with a firewall, but so far I havenít seen the need. The Linksys doesnít have a firewall, just NAT, but coupled with Zonealarm it works well enough to discourage all but the best and people with those skills arenít interested in me.

    I also have a full time VPN connecting my home Novell server (running Border Manager) to the office, where I have a Cisco router with a PIX firewall. It tough, real tough to get through both NAT and Zonealarm (at max protection). About the only way is playing with source routing, which may get a clever hacker through NAT but Zonealarm kills any further penetration as long as itís setup properly. Border Manager on the server is beyond the ability of nearly all hackers to break.

    In almost 2 years I have never had a successful penetration of my home network although there have been hundreds of attempts. Mostly these have been casual poking around but some have been pretty determined. I do have a full time server but no Windows or WEB server so most of the normal hack routes aren't there and the Novell OS is just about hacker proof. In fact, come to think about it, Iíve never heard of anyone breaking Zonealarm when itís setup right, anyone else heard of it happening?

    Anyone who can get through both NAT and Zonealarm (set to max protection) should be working for a living at a (very) high salary. Besides, anyone with those skills probably doesnít want you anyway, their after the Government or Chase Manhattan or something, but if they do want you, then forget about it, your toast.

    Just be sure youíve changed the default password on your router, make it difficult!. Better yet, disallow WEB access entirely and set it up using just the service port. Forget that step and youíve just handed the keys to your network over to the hacker.

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