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Thread: Surefire Optimus UA2 and Invictus UB2.....

  1. #1
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    Default Surefire Optimus UA2 and Invictus UB2.....

    Hi guys,

    Sorry if something like this thread appears somewhere else.

    So far, the differences between these 2 lights are -

    Optimus - 200lm and variable beam between spot and flood.
    Invictus - 400lm

    My queries are -

    1. What will the beam be on the Invictus? Spot or flood?

    2. Optimus at 200lm. Fenix TK10 at 225lm? Which would actually be brighter as I have read that the measurements are taken at different distances and Fenix might overstate while Surefire might understate.

    3. Wouldn't the variable head of the Optimus just be "hardware" so why not an Invictus with a variable head? (unless they use different sized emitters or something). Imagine, 400lm AND a choice between spot or flood.

    4. Any word on runtimes on HIGH?

    Thanks
    Last edited by werdnawee; 04-07-2008 at 09:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    I am not sure about the Optimus...cos there are people around here who do say that surefire underclaim..which might very well be the case

    but either way i can tell you that the T1 and by extension the Tk10, were reviewed by a very reliable source to be emitting at least in excess of 200lumens, even if not 225.

    Crenshaw

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* WadeF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    SF is not going to get any more lumens out of a Cree, or SSC, than anyone else. If anything they may drive them less hard to improve run time and extend the life of the LED. heat, etc. I'm not sure about what kind of emitter will be in the Optimus. If it's a Cree, then I doubt SF will drive it any harder than Fenix is driving their Cree Q5 in the T1 and TK10.
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    I have a TK10 pre-ordered already so outputs should be about the same as you guys have stated.

    My interest was in the variable beam and the purchasing of my first Surefire after reading about build quality, support etc.

    An Optimus sounds tops but an Invictus (with a variable beam) would be top of the tops!!!!

    Maybe I will wait till one is released.

    Thanks

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    The Surefire Catalogue lists the run times for both of those lights. Its in my car and it's raining right now, otherwise I'd go look it up. You can get Surefire's catalogue online and see for yourself. If you can't find it, post again and I'll look it up tomorrow at work.
    Greg

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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Thanks GPB,

    Downloaded the catalogue last night. I think it only shows runtime of the lowest level - 2lm at 100hours (or something like that)

    Hopefully HIGH will have an equivalent (or better) runtime compared to other companies.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Hitthespot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by WadeF View Post
    SF is not going to get any more lumens out of a Cree, or SSC, than anyone else. If anything they may drive them less hard to improve run time and extend the life of the LED. heat, etc. I'm not sure about what kind of emitter will be in the Optimus. If it's a Cree, then I doubt SF will drive it any harder than Fenix is driving their Cree Q5 in the T1 and TK10.
    I think your exactly right Wade. That's why I don't think it will be a Cree, but if it is I question a Q5. Surefire is usually always shy on the lumen count. There is no reason to think the new U2's should be any different in my opinion. Personally I can't wait to find out. I have already got my money set aside!

    Bill
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  8. #8
    Flashaholic* 276's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    i sent surefire an email a few days ago a they say they dont know the runtime on high on both, they say its to early to tell and to check back when the Ua2 comes out.
    Surefire,Inova,4Sevens,Fenix,Olight,Malkoff, AEX25,Xeray50,Polarion Aybss Dual, AElight 30-50 watt,Wiseled tactical 2000,Peak, Lupine Wilma TL, .......

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* NA8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    I'd imagine the two U2's will eventually become one model in a year or two.

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    Flashaholic* adamlau's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Give SureFire a ring and ask directly !

  11. #11

    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    The Invictus can't be variable because it uses a composite LED like the U2, which is optically a bit of a mess.

    They already have enough trouble on their hands producing an attractive beam with the normal LED in the Optimus...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    They are probably trying to figure some way to keep the 400 Lumen Lamp Assembly out of the G2/6P bodies !!!
    Greg

  13. #13
    Flashaholic tussery's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Both the Surefire Optimus and Invictus will be using the 4 die SSC P7 from what I understand.

    Edit:http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/produ...powerLEDp7.asp
    Last edited by tussery; 03-27-2008 at 07:37 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tussery View Post
    Both the Surefire Optimus and Invictus will be using the 4 die SSC P7 from what I understand.

    Edit:http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/produ...powerLEDp7.asp
    I have not seen any evidence to support this.

    We know that the UB2 and KL9 are using an LED like the one in the proto-type KL9:


    We don't know what type of LED will be used in the UA2 - SureFire have not told, nor hinted, and since the proto-types at SS2008 were sealed and 'hidden' behind optics it is impossible to tell.
    It is reasonable to assume that the LED used in the UB2/KL9 is going to be more difficult to create a suitable optic for due to it's large size and multiple dies and therefore it is unlike that the UA2 uses it.

    Since these products are still in development it is too early for lumen output ratings and runtime ratings although SureFire have a good idea of the ballpark ratings.

    With regards to whether SureFire's rating is different from the ratings of other manufacturers - based on current products I consider it reasonable to consider that SureFire are conservative with their lumen ratings and other manufacturers are more interested in creating a higher lumen rating regardless of whether the product lives up to it.

    I am sure that people will directly compare flashlights when they're able to get these new SureFires in hand. I get the impression that SureFire's current TIR optic gives people the impression that the L1/E1B/X300/E1L/E2L are bighter than their lumen ratings would suggest, compared to flashlights with reflectors. In light of this I believe it is more valuable to determine whether the flashlight can be used for the intended task(s) rather than get all preoccupied with ratings.
    I'm personally surprised that I don't miss the surround beam from a reflectored flashlight. Even though the beam from say the Titan is without doubt beautiful, I have no issues of the L1's TIR optic beam in use. For my uses I've never thought 'If only the beam had spill like from a reflector.'

    Al

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    Flashaholic* Daekar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Thanks for the insight, Al. I hope they do use a 4-die emitter in the UA2, I was hoping they'd set the top level for 200 torch-lumens, which would be underdriving the emitter, and give nice long runtimes. But... your logic does seem to be sensible and I imagine we'll see a Cree or SSC single-die in the UA2. I'm madly curious and impatient to see reviews.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    I have not seen any evidence to support this.


    I am sure that people will directly compare flashlights when they're able to get these new SureFires in hand. I get the impression that SureFire's current TIR optic gives people the impression that the L1/E1B/X300/E1L/E2L are bighter than their lumen ratings would suggest, compared to flashlights with reflectors. In light of this I believe it is more valuable to determine whether the flashlight can be used for the intended task(s) rather than get all preoccupied with ratings.
    I'm personally surprised that I don't miss the surround beam from a reflectored flashlight. Even though the beam from say the Titan is without doubt beautiful, I have no issues of the L1's TIR optic beam in use. For my uses I've never thought 'If only the beam had spill like from a reflector.'

    Al
    Good Post Al. My Surefire Backup is the first S.F. I have purchased with Optics, and though I never planned on purchasing it because I just didn't think I would like an optics light. As soon as I seen the beam on the Backup I immediately bought it. It has surpassed my expectations. Outside the beam quality at medium distances is amazing and much better than an reflector light in my opinion. It out throws lights I have with much more total output. I would now not hesitate to purchase another S.F. Optics based light.

    Bill
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitthespot View Post
    Good Post Al. My Surefire Backup is the first S.F. I have purchased with Optics, and though I never planned on purchasing it because I just didn't think I would like an optics light. As soon as I seen the beam on the Backup I immediately bought it. It has surpassed my expectations. Outside the beam quality at medium distances is amazing and much better than an reflector light in my opinion. It out throws lights I have with much more total output. I would now not hesitate to purchase another S.F. Optics based light.

    Bill
    +1

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Though I can't say the same about the L1 that Al does. I do find both of my
    E1B's to have the best beams yet of any Surefire with an optic that I have owned. The L1 was a big improvment on previous versions, but it was quickly replaced when I recieved my E1B's.

    I am looking forward to both the UA2 and the UB2 and I think I'm going to have a tough time deciding which to carry whenever I finally get both.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    cant wait for the Optimus
    Last edited by marinemaster; 03-29-2008 at 02:15 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Since no one mentioned it, the Surefire 2008 catalog says the UA2 has optics, and the UB2 has a reflector. So it's doubtful the beams are comparable. Personally I like the now discontinued L4, L5, L6 style beam profiles, and am hoping the UB2 will be similar but brighter.

    Paladin
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitthespot View Post
    Good Post Al. My Surefire Backup is the first S.F. I have purchased with Optics, and though I never planned on purchasing it because I just didn't think I would like an optics light. As soon as I seen the beam on the Backup I immediately bought it. It has surpassed my expectations. Outside the beam quality at medium distances is amazing and much better than an reflector light in my opinion. It out throws lights I have with much more total output. I would now not hesitate to purchase another S.F. Optics based light.

    Bill
    the people who are after the next highest lux number don't know what they re missing. I have a whole bunch of optics light for the reason you listed, ever since the 4th generation KL1 came out.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
    Since no one mentioned it, the Surefire 2008 catalog says the UA2 has optics, and the UB2 has a reflector. So it's doubtful the beams are comparable.
    Thanks for the clarifications.
    I guess my implications were too subtle.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Hopefully the floodbeam on the Optimus is smooth, even better than the LedLenser 3AAA Focus w/ SSC P4, which still has a SLIGHTLY darker center area. The LedLenser's floodbeam is really not too bad, way better than a cammed reflector flood (Mag / earlier model Rayovac 2AA's, JetBeam Jet I Pro, etc..), but still, it's hard not to expect too much from SureFire.

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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
    Personally I like the now discontinued L4, L5, L6 style beam profiles, and am hoping the UB2 will be similar but brighter.

    Paladin
    I wasn't aware that they'd discontinued the L4/5/6. Is this true? I'd hope not, I love the L6. IIRC The Optimus required optics for the zoom plate to work right. So it's got a nice TIR on it, and then the plate on top to redistribute the light. Is that right?
    Need a website? PM me or go to http://www.maxphstudios.com -Mention you're from CPF, and we'll work something out

  25. #25
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    I think those at SureFire - from the engineering side, the production side and the marketing side - they must realise that these UA2 and UB2 flashlight will be their flagship models and with specific regard to their optical focusing system - the expectations of the beam at tight and wide and the transition must be of the highest quality.
    Having said that - SureFire have demonstrated that their current crop of TIR optic based flashlights can perform the tasks they are designed and intended for without having a beam like a reflector would produce.

    I am sure there will be winners and losers when it comes to whether users like the beam, or not.

    Perhaps a more important consideration for people will be whether they can justify carrying the UA2 or UB2. My personal opinion is that the UA2 being slim and long and bezel-down clipped will make it easier to carry compared to the UB2 which has a larger diameter, heavier bezel.

    I guess that some people will want to find a way to carry these flashlights.

    Here are a few photos for size reference to some common SureFires:



  26. #26
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    I will in any case carry the lamp, even if I must make a cosmetic operation at the hip. With your beautiful photos you do not make it for me more easy to wait.

    Rainer
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  27. #27

    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    *Drools at Size15's' pics..

    NOT FREAKIN FAIR!!!!! Thanks for the pics though lol..

  28. #28

    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jufam44 View Post
    I wasn't aware that they'd discontinued the L4/5/6. Is this true? I'd hope not, I love the L6. IIRC The Optimus required optics for the zoom plate to work right. So it's got a nice TIR on it, and then the plate on top to redistribute the light. Is that right?
    I was basing my discontinued comment on the 2008 catalogs not showing them in the spec pages anymore, but the Surefire web site still lists the L4 and L5 for sale.

    Paladin
    Qui Me Tangit Paenitebit (he who touches me will repent)

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    I have a coworker who just got in the SF lights. He would like to know what the runtime is on all settings/levels for the Optimus. All i could tell him is that is rated at 100 hours for probably 2 lumes, lowest setting. But he would like to know what the runtime is for all setting.

    Thanks in advance
    Chris

  30. #30
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    Since these products are still in development it is too early for lumen output ratings and runtime ratings although SureFire have a good idea of the ballpark ratings.

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