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Thread: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    UPDATE 2008-10-13
    The driver solutions discussed in this post that are based on AMC7135 chips are best suited to be used in conjunction with SSC P7 emitters that are D***I or C***I binned, I at the end means they are 3.25V to 3.5V in forward voltage. If used with D***J or C***J binned emitters regulation and even output may suffer from the higher forward voltage of that binning, 3.5V-3.75V. A better choice for D***J emitters are buck drivers, eg. the driver made by user Der Wichtel.

    The output from the drivers in this post are ~3.7V and work best with D***I or C***I binned SSC P7. When matched with one big LiION cell, three good quality
    D-size NiMH cells or four AA/C NiMH cells these drivers are a very good choice and have very high efficiency.


    Update 2009-02-05

    The corresponding build with Cree MC-E can be found here:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=212835
    I particularly like the 2D Mag with 2S2P wired MC-E. That's a more versatile solution.
    ----------------------------------------

    I have been asked about how I modded my SSC P7 Maglites, especially the driver solution I'm using. The basis of the mod is the classic Maglite with heatsink insert from H22A/Litemania/The Sandwich Shoppe with an Luxeon/SSC/CREE on it and a driver somewhere below the heatsink. You cut the bulb holder pedestal off and solder the leads for the emitter directly to the contact points on the internal switch.
    Like this, link to basic Magmod:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=167866

    The driver solution I use is conceived by user NetKidz, schematics can be found here:
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=192677

    Pic taken from NetKidz thread:




    The driver consists of one 16 mode 1A driver with a slave board that contribute ~1.4A. In total ~2.4A. I like it since the multimode driver have three user interface groups, one is low-med-high. This runs best on three or four big NiMH cells or one big LiION cell.

    What's needed, besides one Maglite and a heatsink. One C-bin SSC P7 emitter, drivers and some teflon wire:




    Preparing the drivers, first pic is the multimode driver, wire going up left is led + and wire going down right is led -. Second pic is the slave board. The third pic shows how to connect them. Battery + connects to the + pad on the multimode drivers underside and battery - to the ring of the multimode driver:








    It's necessary to dremel the emitter guides from my H22A heatsink, I also drilled the holes larger with a 3 mm drill bit. Then I opened the drilled holes with my dremel to make space for the emitter legs & leads. I used a milling tip for this. This guide was produced before dedicated SSC P7 heatsinks were available. Now several vendors sell heatsinks for P7 emitters so the dremel work is no longer necessary.




    Glueing the emitter to the heatsink with Arctic Alumina epoxy.




    Soldering the teflon wires to the inside of the trimmed emitter legs. I used 26 gauge wire. Make sure that the emitter legs & bare wire ends don't touch the naked metal on the drilled/milled heatsink.




    Connecting the battery leads to the multi mode driver. Drivers are glued to the heatsink with Arctic Alumina epoxy and Araldite epoxy. Almost finished. Some heatsink compound (not epoxy or glue) may ease heat transfer from the heatsink to the flashlight body, apply sparingly before inserting the heatsink into the flashlight body.




    Here it is to the left with two of my other SSC P7 lights. This one is 1D running off one D-size LiION cell. Runtime should be more than two hours on high.




    Links to the drivers and heatsink:
    Heatsink: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=160483
    Multimode driver, 16 mode: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612
    Multimode driver, 2 mode, my favourite: http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=1802
    AMC7135 1400 mA driver: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1886



    Update 2008-04-27

    How to build a high quality, low cost, regulated 3 Ampere driver for your SSC P7 Maglite

    This is what you need. Two 1A simple AMC7135 drivers and one 1A AMC7135 multimode driver to control them. Some copper wire, teflon wire 24 or 26 gauge. Three connections are needed between the multimode and the slave sandwich, ~15 mm each. Two 5-7 mm pieces of copper wire to connect battery negative and battery positive between boards on the slave sandwich. One 10 mm piece of teflon wire to connect led negative between boards on the slave sandwich. Two pieces of 20-30 mm teflon wire for connection to the led from the multimode board.




    Preparing the boards for the slave sandwich. Removing diodes and making sure connections are made between all AMC7135 chips with solder.




    Soldering some copper wire jumpers in place of the diodes.




    Making the sandwich. Battery negative is connnected on the edge with copper wire soldered between the boards, the ring around the boards. Not seen is a similar piece of copper wire going from center positive to the other boards center postive (if you miss this it will only give you 2.0A). A short piece of teflon wire going from led negative to led negative.




    Preparing the multimode driver.
    1 will go to battery negative on the slave sandwich.
    2 will go to led negative on the slave sandwich.
    3 will go to emitter negative.
    4 will go to center positive on the top board of the slave sandwich.
    5 is going to led positive.
    Battery negative and positive connect to the underside of this driver,
    negative to the ring and positive to the center.




    To illustrate the connections.




    This is mounted in a 2D Maglite, options are 3 C size NiMH with some modding or one D-szi LiION cell and one spacer. The difference between 2.4A drive current and 3A is a few thousand lux in throw, ~20 000 versus ~25 000 lux. The big drawback is shorter runtime and more heat. Going from 2.4A to 3A will cut runtime dramatically.


    Update 2008-05-03

    Today I ran a small unscientific experiment with two of my regulated Maglites, both are 1D using unprotected D LiION cells for power. One has an AMC7135 multimode driver set to 2.4A, the other one has an AMC7135 multimode driver set to 3A. Both have H22A heatsinks with some thermal compound between it and the body, short gold plated springs and UCL-lenses. Both Mags were just laying on the the table, no cooling or even holding in my hand. This test only about heat, not runtime. The runtimes are much longer than what is used here to test heat transfer and heat managment.

    After 30 minutes the 2.4A Mag is 36.2 Celsius on the outer side of the head, battery voltage is down to 3.94 V from 4.05 V. Output was a steady 21 300 in throw at one metre, a flatline during the whole test.

    After 30 minutes the 3.0A Mag is 39.1 degrees Celsius on the outer side of the head, battery voltage is down to 3.89 V from 4.05 V. Output was a steady 25 800 in throw at one metre, a flatline during the whole test.

    So my unscientific feeling is that the drivers I use are top notch, that my lights have working thermal transfer, that the SCC P7 emitters in these two lights can handle heat very well and that they have respectable runtimes.



    A word of caution. When using an SSC P7 with AMC7135 drivers and an in voltage exceeding 4.5Volt the temperatures will be considerably higher. These drivers are supposed to be used with max 4.5 Volt as they are the most efficient then.




    Update 2008-07-12

    Beamshots with the lights discussed in this post.

    MRV SSC P7s. Lots of different SSC P7 beamshots!
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=202014

    SSC P7 beamshots. Mag & Tiablo A8 SSC P7!
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=198549

    SSC P7 Mag against OSRAM 64440 Mag & RaidFire Spear. 95-250 m beamshots!
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=192740




    Update 2008-10-28

    I did a runtime test on one of my 1D Mags with the above multimode driver, an SSC P7 DSWOI (3.25-3.50V) emitter driven by one unprotected 5000 mAh D-size LiION cell. The unprotected cell is ok to use in this build because output dims noticeably when voltage comes near 3V, then you just change to a fresh cell. I think this driver is a big improvement over using direct drive in one cell LiION lights with C/D***I emitters.

    Voltage at 45 min.: 3.78V. Voltage at 90 min.:3.66V. Voltage at 130 min.: 2.89V. At 130 min. the light is very dim.





    Update 2009-05-07


    How to adapt the spring an tailcap to use 4 x C-size cells.

    I use a length of pvc pipe thats 32 mm OD and have an ID that accepts C NiMH cells, eg. 27 mm.

    I cut the spring and deanodize the inner part of the tailcap. I use lye and hot water for this, lye is toxic and highly corrosive, it will burn skin and eyes and it stinks, so be careful. Lye (sodium hydroxide) can be found in drain cleaner other such products.



    Cut the spring like this, one little piece at a time until it fits in the tailcap. It's trial and error.






    How to connect one of the newer variants of multimode driver

    Note that I have popualted an empty space for an additional AMC7135 chip to get 2.8A with just two boards. Even without the additional chip the soldering points are the same. There is at least one more variety of the multimode driver out there, just follow the general rule of connecting as seen here. The last in series AMC735 VDD leg (the one with a trace going to it) on the multimode connects to slave board positive center on all boards I have seen to so far.












    The 1A multimode really does give you 1.4A with an additional AMC7135 chip:




    Stefan
    Last edited by StefanFS; 06-07-2009 at 06:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Thanks for the tutorial Stefan.
    Norm

  3. #3

    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    thanks! good work there!

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* NA8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    +1

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    I love this emitter! It's spectacular compared to eg. SSC P4. When it comes to heat and runtime I think it's advisable to run it at slightly under it's rated max. The difference between 2.8-3A and 2.2-2.5A is minimal and not visible to the naked eye. But it's a world of difference with the heat.
    Stefan

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    Flashaholic Tidra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    P7 C-bin in the MagLite D on H22A heatsink + DD @ 4V/2.4A it is almost cold @ approximately 750Lum.

    On the other hand in MagLite D + custom heatsink + 4xSSC P4 U-bin star + MaxFlex Vin 7.4V 2D Li-Ion and output 700mA on serial wired LED's @ approximately 750Lum gets much hotter.

    Cheers,
    Iztok

  7. #7
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Excellent guide, many thanks for the links and great photos!
    Can't wait until my heatsinks turn up....

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by gojira54 View Post
    Excellent guide, many thanks for the links and great photos!
    Can't wait until my heatsinks turn up....
    Thank you,
    I expect this will be updated with your data, please tell us about your modding experience.
    Stefan

  9. #9

    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Nice! Stefan you always have the time and energy!

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* AlexGT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Just want to add a little contribution to this tread on the part of "Make sure that the emitter legs & bare wire ends don't touch the naked metal on the drilled/milled heatsink." I used clear nail enamel to cover up the bare aluminum, just a light coat will prevent any electrical contact, the thickness is barely zero.

    Cheers!
    AlexGT

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    Flashaholic* f22shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    when you cut the reflector, do you cut the cam and leave a little of it? or do you cut the cam and a bit of the reflector to fit the p7?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    I cut it flush with the reflector.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by f22shift View Post
    when you cut the reflector, do you cut the cam and leave a little of it? or do you cut the cam and a bit of the reflector to fit the p7?
    The whole cam is cut on the one here, in post #1. If you carefully trim the legs on the emitter it fits in the original reflector opening, without messing with the reflector.
    Stefan

  14. #14

    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    What reflector /mod would give the best throw with the P7 ??

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isthereanybodyoutthere View Post
    What reflector /mod would give the best throw with the P7 ??
    The original reflector is very good when it comes to throw, it throws like the better CREE throwers, but with a hotspot four times the size of those. Certainly there are bigger heads/reflector combos like the ones from fivemega, but I don't know about how they might function with an multi dice emitter like the SSC P7.
    Stefan

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    Flashaholic* AlexGT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    I am waiting on my drivers to build a P7 Mag with a Throwmaster reflector, will post pics when complete, I think it will be a thrower.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexGT View Post
    I am waiting on my drivers to build a P7 Mag with a Throwmaster reflector, will post pics when complete, I think it will be a thrower.
    I'm very interested in the result of that, if it works I might have to get one.
    Stefan

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    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Post #1 updated with a tutorial for building a 3A regulated driver.

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    Flashaholic* AlexGT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    I tried it and the results look good.

    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=196283

    Stefan can you tell me what settings did you use on your camera for the pics you took?

    Thanks
    AlexGT

    Quote Originally Posted by StefanFS View Post
    I'm very interested in the result of that, if it works I might have to get one.
    Stefan

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexGT View Post
    I tried it and the results look good.

    http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=196283

    Stefan can you tell me what settings did you use on your camera for the pics you took?

    Thanks
    AlexGT
    It looks good. What's the current? Aren't they just wonderful, the little P7 emitters?
    For long range pics I use 8 sec exposures, WB on daylight, ISO 100, f/2.8 and manual focus are the most important for me. But keep in mind that different cameras require different settings. These settings work for the cameras I prefer to use for beamshots, my Canon G9 and my Sony W5. At shorter distances or in confined areas much shorter exposure times are required to get good results. Indoors it might be enough with half a second, and for 30 meters outside 4 sec exposures might be perfect. You have to experiment. You do need a camera with manual settings.
    Stefan

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* AlexGT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Right now it is being direct driven from a 1C li-ion, I couldn't catch the mailman who is delivering me 2 SOB 1500 to be run in paralell for 3 amps to the led.

    I will try your settings for beamshots tonight.

    AlexGT

  22. #22

    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Awesome tutorial Stefan!

    I just ordered some P7 emitters. That driver solution looks great. I'll have to order a few.

    Is the small light an Aleph 3?

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquillityBase View Post
    Awesome tutorial Stefan!

    I just ordered some P7 emitters. That driver solution looks great. I'll have to order a few.

    Is the small light an Aleph 3?
    Thanks,
    no it's my Tiablo A8 running at 2.4A. It's mostly spill, but it lights up a big warehouse/convention hall!
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=194753

    Stefan

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    I think I did my most successful SSC P7 Mag mod this evening. One red 1.25D FM Mag with UCL-lens, a perfectly cut H22A heatsink (down to 1/10 of a mm), teflon wire, a hand picked stock Mag reflector (I have dozens), a perfectly soldered 3A 5 mode driver sandwich. A perfectly soldered low resistance tail cap mod. AND a hand picked SSC P7 premium C-bin emitter, saved because of it's very low vf and very matched dice (even with the ultra low current continuity test on my DMM the dice are matched). Throw is 28 000 lux at one metre at 3A. The hotspot from a SSC P7 Mag is four times the size of the best CREE throwers that produce 20-25 000 lux in throw. The spill is three times the area and two to three times the intensity compared to those top CREE throwers. This little monster should run on one protected LiION D cell for ~90 minutes at top flux.







    Stefan

  25. #25
    Flashaholic uluapoundr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Stefan,
    Nice lights! Your post has gotten me excited to do my own P7 Mag mods. I have 3 heatsinks ( 2 H22A and 1 Fenix), two P7 emitters and one on the way, 2 3D mags, Tenergy D cells on the way, Kai AMC boards on the way. I'll be sure to post some pics when I'm done. Thanks for sharing! Keep um commin! BTW, where did you get the mag reflectors from? I may need some spares too. I'm sure some of those Incan guys must have a bunch to give away. Aloha!

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    uluapoundr,
    from www . flashlightking.com. But mostly as leftover reflectors from Mag mods. After a while you get piles of Mag parts laying around.
    Stefan

    Edit!

    It's fun to build and you're going to love it when it's built!
    Last edited by StefanFS; 04-30-2008 at 02:29 PM.

  27. #27
    Flashaholic* f22shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by uluapoundr View Post
    Stefan,
    Nice lights! Your post has gotten me excited to do my own P7 Mag mods. I have 3 heatsinks ( 2 H22A and 1 Fenix), two P7 emitters and one on the way, 2 3D mags, Tenergy D cells on the way, Kai AMC boards on the way. I'll be sure to post some pics when I'm done. Thanks for sharing! Keep um commin! BTW, where did you get the mag reflectors from? I may need some spares too. I'm sure some of those Incan guys must have a bunch to give away. Aloha!
    let us know how the kai amc board works with the 3 cells. i know they mention 4 cells in the description so i was wondering if it still worked with 3 cells

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* StefanFS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Post #1 updated with a small unscientific heat test.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Northern Lights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by StefanFS View Post
    This is what you need. Two 1A simple AMC7135 drivers and one 1A AMC7135 multimode driver to control them.Stefan
    I do not know enought about board electronics to get this.
    What is the purpose of the controler board? That is to say I perfer only off and on, is the boards only purpose mode control or is it intrigal to the operation? The two simple boards provide the regulation, is that all that is necessary to operate the P7?
    <; )}}}}>< I fish therfore I am... pic links: '03,'07,'08

  30. #30

    Default Re: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Lights View Post
    I do not know enought about board electronics to get this.
    What is the purpose of the controler board? That is to say I perfer only off and on, is the boards only purpose mode control or is it intrigal to the operation? The two simple boards provide the regulation, is that all that is necessary to operate the P7?
    Each board is contributing 1A of drive to the total 3A. If you remove the multimode driver you will need to replace it with another 1A driver or you will only get 2A.


    Kev.

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