Looking for someone to build me a custom flashlight

animeai

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Jun 23, 2008
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Looking for someone with experience to custom build me a flashlight

First, a little background on myself. I am a security dog handler, I patrol all manner of sites with my rottweiler. I always carry three torches. 1. A 4-D cell maglite with LED bulb, 2. A 500 lumen 3 x cree led torch powered by 4 cr123a batteries (1000mAh, rechargeable), and 3. a 100 lumen cree led torch powered by a single AA battery.

I carry the maglite mainly to use as a secondary defence weapon should my dog be incapacitated by an intruder (thankfully it has never come to this, or indeed a dog bite yet which is not bad for a 5½ year track record). However, the light is produces is pitiful for it's immense weight. The 100 lumen torch is more or less my "if all else fails" backup, used in emergencies like battery failure on my other torches. My 500 lumen torch is very good, it does however had a few problems - it has three modes, bright, energy save, and rapid flashing- this flashing setting drives me nuts! I am looking for a flashlight to be custom built to my specifications which will hopefully replace both the maglite and 500 lumen torch.

Size: I would like the torch to be about the same size and shape as a 4 D-cell maglite, identical to within ½" if possible so it still fits onto my belt clip.

Durability: Sky high! It will need to be made from extremely durable materials - aircraft grade aluminium for the body and head, durable plastic for the lens. My torches tend to suffer a lot of abuse over the years - being dropped by cold / gloved hands, coming lose and rolling about in the back of the van etc - you get the idea. Ideally I would like everything housed within a 4 D-cell maglite body as my current maglite has been going strong for 4 years now and apart from many scratches and dents is still perfect. This may, however not be possible due to the battery requirements....

Light: CREE is shortly bringing out a new led (called the CREE XLamp MC-E)which has me rather excited. At 750mA (maximum input) each led will output 790 lumens. I would like this torch to run four four of these leds, giving a potential output of 3160 lumens. After doing some research there is a chance that an led driver capable of distributing 3000mA of power does not exist, but I could equally have been looking in the wrong place as I have never researched this before. These will of course require a custom built reflector, regardless of torch body.

Batteries: I would like it to be powered by 9 x RECHARGEABLE 3.7 Volt lithium 18650 2400mAh batteries, mounted in three sets of three, providing either 11.1v when set in series for a total of 21600mAh. In theory it should give us a potential runtime of just over 7 hours, but in reality I would expect the power drain from the led driver to give us considerably less, possibly 3-5 hours, however an hour or above would be acceptable. (This information may be totally inaccurate though, I just divided the total 21600 by 3000 the maximum drain). 3.7v 18650 batteries are commonly used in laptops and are suited to high rates of drain. They are the same width as cr123a batteries and twice as long, but with almost 2½ times the capacity of my current 1000mAh rechargeable cr123a. A custom battery caddy would need to be built to hold these and would need to sit within the torch body without rattling. I have a feeling that with a 3A power drain these will perform better than 4 rechargeable D cells or 12 rechargeable AA cells. I am however open to suggestions.

Torch Settings: This part is optional, however I will be willing to pay more for the finished flashlight if these features can be included. As the CREE XLamp MC-E are technically four led cores in one small chip, each core within them can be lit individually. Because of this I would like four brightness settings on the torch. 1. All leds lit, 2. 3/4 of each led lit, 3. 1/2 of each led lit, 4. 1/4 of each led lit. If possible I would also like to be able to choose to send 750mAh to each led, of just half the power at 350mAh for a better lumens per watt rating. This would in effect give us 8 settings. I believe this could easily be done my three switches. 1. Master On/Off, 2. Full Power (750mAh) or Half Power (350mAh) selector switch, and 3. A sliding switch to choose how much of each led to light. This may however be an electronic nightmare, so I would be willing to settle for a full / half power setting, but natrually I would pay less for this than I would for a flashlight with all my settings.

Heat dissipation: This torch is likely to need a heat sink of sorts, not having used so many leds before I do not know how much heat they will generate. I would prefer that this flashlight not get above 90-100 degrees (Fahrenheit) when on full load if possible to prevent accidental burn injuries to myself and the dog.

If you believe yourself capable of taking on my challenge and building this flashlight I would be very interested to hear your estimates on price. Please only quote if you are prepared to also build if I accept your quote! Please note I the flashlight will need to be shipped to the UK (as a gift to prevent customs charges!), I would prefer it if you "sold" it to me through ebay once it is completed (use a buy it now, private auction) so I have some form of fraud protection, I would also require a receipt for tax purposes (I can claim a percentage back as I run my own business). Payment will be made through paypal, I am also willing to provide a small advance to help cover the costs of materials if you are a well known member and can get enough people on the forum to vouch for you. Since you will be the designer, and patents / copyrights on the flashlight will belong to
you - I simply want a torch that will replace my 4 D Cell maglite and give me more than enough light for any situation I find myself in. If you require any more information please feel free to ask me!

CREE XLamp MC-E http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_mce.asp
 

spencer

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A couple of things just for your information.
1. You cannot fit 9x 18650 cells into a 4D Maglite. I was wanting to do this as well but it just can't work.
2. As the MC-E LED's are not out yet and nobody know the price of what they are going to be or how well they work with what reflectors, it may be hard for someone to give you a quote.
3. It may not be wise to just power one or two or three dies per LED. This would require some tricky wiring and LED's are more efficient at lower currents. You would see better runtime if you reduce the power to all of the dies. At the same brightness, less power would be used.
4. I think you want a multimode driver. Something like the SuperShark when it comes out might do the trick. No word on UI yet but it may be a potentiometer which is very useful.
 

MorePower

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Can't help with the build, but I can help with your math on the capacity of the batteries you specified. 3 parallel sets of 3 18650 cells in series will give you 3x the capacity of a single cell, at a voltage of 3x a single cell.

Ie. 11.1V (3 cells in series) and 7200mAh (3 parallel strings of cells), based on the values you quoted per cell.

Also, there's not a chance that the RCR123 cells you have are truly 1000mAh capacity. At best, they're probably 600-650mAh cells. Check out this thread for some capacity testing on a number of brands.
 

animeai

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Jun 23, 2008
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A couple of things just for your information.
1. You cannot fit 9x 18650 cells into a 4D Maglite. I was wanting to do this as well but it just can't work.
2. As the MC-E LED's are not out yet and nobody know the price of what they are going to be or how well they work with what reflectors, it may be hard for someone to give you a quote.
3. It may not be wise to just power one or two or three dies per LED. This would require some tricky wiring and LED's are more efficient at lower currents. You would see better runtime if you reduce the power to all of the dies. At the same brightness, less power would be used.
4. I think you want a multimode driver. Something like the SuperShark when it comes out might do the trick. No word on UI yet but it may be a potentiometer which is very useful.

I guess the 3x 18650 are just that little bit too large to fit in a D tube? Shame, that means I will almost certainly need a custom tube unless there are D cells or AA converters that can supply enough juice to these leds.

That might be a good point, multiple levels of power drain would require multiple drivers... Shoving a resistor in the circuit instead to decrease power flow would be better - perhaps get it down to say 100mAh per led for a miser, battery saving mode, 350mAh per led for a medium mode and the full 750mAh per led for full beam. These settings would of course be left to the discretion of the builder as I'm sure they will know a lot more about leds than myself.

As for the price of the leds, while their price is unknown I am happy to accept quotes for the job minus their price (which will be added on once they are known)

Can't help with the build, but I can help with your math on the capacity of the batteries you specified. 3 parallel sets of 3 18650 cells in series will give you 3x the capacity of a single cell, at a voltage of 3x a single cell.

Ie. 11.1V (3 cells in series) and 7200mAh (3 parallel strings of cells), based on the values you quoted per cell.

Also, there's not a chance that the RCR123 cells you have are truly 1000mAh capacity. At best, they're probably 600-650mAh cells. Check out this thread for some capacity testing on a number of brands.



Many thanks for that information. I had assumed (as would any electronics n00b :p) that if you had 9 cells at 2400mAh each no matter what the configuration you would get the sum total of all the component parts (ie 21600mAh). So out of interest, does that mean that if I ran the nine batteries in series I would get the full 21600mAh? I'm scientifically minded and can't quite get my head around that... Theoretically that would surely mean I would get 7200mAh from three cells in series too? If that is the case (which I simply cannot understand lol) what is the benefit of the extra cells in parallel? Where does the extra 14400mAh that I would have had go?

Please forgive me for the confusing question though I just wish to understand more...

As for the cr123a cells, I also highly doubt they are a true 1000mAh since they are unbranded and from china ;) all I know is 4 of them will run my 500 lumen torch for about 4 hours
 
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Tekno_Cowboy

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:welcome:

For the batteries, 18650's are not the same width as CR123A's. 18650's are about 18-18.5mm, CR123As are about 16-16.5mm.

A quick lesson on battery math: When Batteries are in series, add the voltage, when batteries are in parallel, add the capacity (and increase the max charge/discharge current). To sum it up for you, 9 2.4Ah 3.6V 18650 cells in a 3 series x 3 parallel arangement would be:

Voltage:
3 x 3.6V = 10.8V with 2.4Ah capacity, but since Li-ion's are up to 4.3V off the charger, it could be up to 12.9V. voltage sag could also bring it lower than 10.8V

For total Capacity, add the 3 series sets:
3 x 2.4Ah = 7.2Ah at 10.8V-12.9V

If you'd like, I can draw up a design in Qcad, but I don't have the equipment to manufacture it.

I would also recommend a different LED for now, as the draw will likely be more than Li-ions can handle if you want to use MC-E's. Might I suggest a Quad Q5 or R2? Perhaps even a 5 Cree setup? Both would be much easier to wire right now.

There are several modded mags that you might find would be close to what you are looking for. I would suggest browsing the marketplace and the Custom B/S/T subforum.
 

MorePower

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Many thanks for that information. I had assumed (as would any electronics n00b :p) that if you had 9 cells at 2400mAh each no matter what the configuration you would get the sum total of all the component parts (ie 21600mAh). So out of interest, does that mean that if I ran the nine batteries in series I would get the full 21600mAh? I'm scientifically minded and can't quite get my head around that... Theoretically that would surely mean I would get 7200mAh from three cells in series too? If that is the case (which I simply cannot understand lol) what is the benefit of the extra cells in parallel? Where does the extra 14400mAh that I would have had go?

Please forgive me for the confusing question though I just wish to understand more...

Tekno_Cowboy's explanation of capacity and voltage of series and parallel cells should make things clearer for you.
 

Phaserburn

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FYI, Milkyspit is an excellent custom modder that builds to orders. He enjoys new challenging projects and is quite interactive. Tell 'em Phaserburn sent ya...
 

animeai

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Jun 23, 2008
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The priority for this torch is a massive light output while being housed in a 4Dmaglite (or similar) body - there are some sites I work on that are so immense where my 500 lumen torch is dwarfed into something that reminds me of a standard maglite... I have recently ordered a 5xcree 1000 lumen torch from ebay (shipped all the way from china >_<) so will be able to test that once it arrives, but I have the feeling I would need (well, ok :p like) up to 2000-3000 lumens at times. I have done some more searching and found the P7 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12721 led which has a drain of 2.7A and a max output of 900 lumens. Is there any battery configuration or barrety type that would be able to power three of these without me having to lug around a lead acid battery? My concern is that this led uses almost 3A for just a 900 lumen output, whereas the new CREE MCE will give almost that output for just 750mA. I am more than happy to wait for the new CREE to be released (regardless of price) if I will end up with my dream flashlight.

@MorePower & Tekno_Cowboy: Many thanks for your explanations, while I will never be a professor in electronics or engineering I love learning new things ;)

@Norm: I've taken a look at the Elephant II and I'm not sure how comfortable it would be to hold, but until I had one in my hand I couldn't give an honest opinion. If something like that would be required to host enough battery power to give me my 3000ish lumens I would me more than happy to try.

@Phaserburn: Thanks for the tip, i'll look him up via PM shortly.
 

mcmc

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Elektrolumens currently is making a batch of Quad-P7 lights, a custom 3" head but fit on either a 6D Mag body for Nimh D cells, or a 2D Mag body for li-ion D cells (the one I'm getting). The runtime on the 6D would be long, and you'd definitely retain the blunt object feature =) If required you could probably figure out with him an alternative length, closer to 4D, with a different battery config. Btw, this light is about 2600 to 3200 lumens.

On multiple levels - I would just point out that our eyes perceive light logarithmically, i.e. 1/4 the light -> 1/2 -> 3/4 -> full power does not equal 4 visually spaced brightnesses - you'd have to go something like 1/1000 the max power, 1/100, 1/10, max power - to get visually even spacing.

However, I have a Quad-Cree Q5 (~800 lumens) and I find that having this be a single-stage light is more useful than if it were multi-level - because when I'm needing less light and variable light, I can use one of my many backups (SSC modded HDS, which, given the whole visual spacing thing, would be about at the next 1/2 visually bright level or not too much below); but when I need and want the brute light output, I'm also in situations where I don't want to fumble, i.e. hiking with a bunch of kids in the dark in the woods, investigating some sound behind the mountain house, etc. And, as it is always is the same level, it gives me a quicker reaction time on id'ing something - because I have a visual memory of how much light it's putting out and what standard objects I see a lot, look at that exact lumens output.

Just some thoughts!
 
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animeai

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I still like my original idea of using 18650 batteries as they have a large capacity at ~3.7v, however since three sets of three will not fit in a D Cell maglite (being too wide) I would have to get the body custom machined. If I were doing that would getting a tube big enough for three sets of four or five of these cells help with the immense power requirements this flashlight is likely to have? I think i'm going to have to start drawing some sketches or learn how to use an auto-cad program soon so I can get up a working plan. I also have a feeling that the immense power drain of the p7 is going to be far too much for almost any conceivable battery pack so might be better off waiting for the new cree to be released.

@dixemon: A HID would be fantastic if they were not so damned expensive and needed constant bulb replacements. I like the idea of 50,000 hours or service life from an led (and have been a big fan of leds since I bought my first 4D maglite led conversion a long time ago.

@nickbizzlex13: *DROOL*! Seriously... If I had over $2000 to spend on a flashlight I would almost certainly be tempted :p But if that were the case the replacement bulb cost would not be a factor in me choosing leds. I would however be interested to know more about that flashlight's battery source, although considering a spare battery costs an extra $215 it would quite likely increase the cost of my built to an insane amount

@FrogmanM & mcmc: A 6D is just too long for me, and since there still seems to be a lot of argument about how to power the flashlight as it drains so much current I think I will have to give that one a miss. I would also have contacted milky by now if his PM inbox were not full...

@mcmc: Thanks for the information about light settings - again, it's something I know little to nothing about (all I know is more lumens = brighter!) settings like that would be up to the designer. However, perhaps four staging levels would be a bit excessive... Perhaps just two would be better, say a ~1000 lumen output and an all singing, all dancing 3000+ lumen output.
 

Gunner12

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The Seoul P7 C bin can hit 900 lumen max. With those lights I'm guessing you'll et around 400 lumen out the front. More if you remove the resistors(if it has one).

How about making your own mod?

1 hour runtime out of 4 D rechargeable batteries. Presuming 10 amp hour battery and 70% driver efficiency. You should be able to drive 4 Seoul P7s. That should get you around 1800-2300 lumen of pretty floody light out the front.

How far do you want the light to throw?

:welcome:
 

LEDninja

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Essexman

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Hiya animeai and welcome to CPF.

Just to mix things up even more, you may wish to keep you purchase/mods in the UK. Therefore avoiding costly shipping/import tax etc.

See here for Gnap's work

enjoy
 

mwaldron

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I think Milky is a very popular guy. I tried to send him a PM about some thought I had on a Kroma mod but his box was full.

Just goes to show there's a market for good top-end modders on CPF!
 

Tekno_Cowboy

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My concern is that this led uses almost 3A for just a 900 lumen output, whereas the new CREE MCE will give almost that output for just 750mA.

The Cree MC-E is 750mA per chip, so a total of 4x750mA or 3A. I believe it is supposed to be more efficient than the P7, and due to being a smaller chip, should provide light that's easier to work with in a flashlight.

Question: If you don't have a $2000 budget, why are you looking for a very expensive custom light? If you want high output and have money for a custom light, I'd spend that money on a decent HID instead. Several manufacturers make bright HID's in about the same size you asked for. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are HERE, but there are several. I know I'd love a 24W Boxer or 2-mode Shark :devil: And what I wouldn't give to be able to afford a Crocodile :faint::D:sigh:

If you're interested, contact Mike[at]PTS for a discount. (replace the [at] with @)
 

animeai

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Jun 23, 2008
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You seriously think the flashlight would hit the $2000 mark? Put it like this, if it did I would not be able to afford it, however I am also unwilling to put down a budget as a lot of people I have dealt with or seen on the net will immediately quote your maximum budget (notably script writers that I have dealt with in the past on sites you need to set a budget on) - I'm not saying anyone here is untrustworthy at all, it's just the way I work. I have also already ruled out HID lights because of the high bulb replacement rate and cost. I like the idea of 50,000 (heck, even 5000 hours) of light. Changing bulb in the middle of a field in pitch black is not fun either... I'm also toeing the water at the moment to see if anyone would be up for building a compact(ish) 3000 lumen led torch ;)
 
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