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Thread: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

  1. #151

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    actully i have another question lol. putting them in series like that wont make their current add together? since 1 of them will drive both input and output current at 2.8A.

  2. #152
    Flashaholic* download's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    In serial setting, each driver limit it max 2.8A current, so it won't be over 2.8A at each led.
    If the voltage is high enough, led will draw 2.8A constantly.

    14V input => 1x (8x7135) + 3x 3.7V
    1x Driver loading = (14V-11.11V) x 2.8A = 8.12W heat

    14V input => 3x (8x7135) + 3x 3.7V
    Each 1x Driver loading = (14V-11.11V) x 2.8A / 3 = 2.7W heat

    So 3x driver share the heat, at the same time, it will cost 3x too.

  3. #153

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Quote Originally Posted by download View Post
    In serial setting, each driver limit it max 2.8A current, so it won't be over 2.8A at each led.
    If the voltage is high enough, led will draw 2.8A constantly.

    14V input => 1x (8x7135) + 3x 3.7V
    1x Driver loading = (14V-11.11V) x 2.8A = 8.12W heat

    14V input => 3x (8x7135) + 3x 3.7V
    Each 1x Driver loading = (14V-11.11V) x 2.8A / 3 = 2.7W heat

    So 3x driver share the heat, at the same time, it will cost 3x too.
    cool but price of pcb is minimal compared to a p7 XD.

    would you happen to know the maximum output voltage of the 8x7135 from KD im guessing if i wana run 4led/1 8x7135 it have to raise its output voltage to 14.8v to keep 2.8a flowing?


  4. #154
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    I think 3x P7, 12V is good enough, 14.4V may cost extra heat only.

    1 8x7135 driver for 1 P7 need 4V, 3x 8x7135 driver for 3x P7 need 12V.
    Wire should be like that.
    If you want 4x P7, 16V is needed.


  5. #155

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    sorry my picture is so bad lol. the 4 circle with + - was meant to be 4 p7 so total 12 p7

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    axile, you should make it like that.
    But I really doubt it is a smart way.


  7. #157

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    i guess with that set up we know the drivers would be nice a chilly

  8. #158

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method


    I tried this setup with a 1x7135 river and 3 cree Q5 with a 3 cell lipo battery. It worked ok for 5 minutes. Now the led that is connected directly to the driver is off, the other two are lighting up very dimm. Did i fry the driver and why? Maybe the lipo battery doesnt drop enough voltage and the 7135 is getting to hot?


  9. #159
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    worldedit,

    7135 have thermal protection, it will shut down when overheat.
    When it is cool down, it will work again.
    Did it turn on later when the driver is cool down?

    You can turn on for 5mins, that mean you wiring is correct.
    Try use 1x battery to 1x driver to 1x Q5.
    Test the driver is still OK or not.

    What is the voltage of your 3 cell lipo battery?

  10. #160

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    It didnt work again after cooldown. I just threw it away and used a resistor. the LEDs are ok. Maybe it was bad soldering after all.


  11. #161
    Enlightened krutzbeuazen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    great idea, exactly what i need! want to power a handful of those cheap 1w leds for fixed illumination (had those leds left). had some 7135 boards left from some lights. got me a 15v converter from fleamarket. soldered it all together, easy thing:
    3 leds in series connected between a single am7135 and the powersupply. one led connected to the 7135's out. that setup two times. powered it up, and, nice & bright. surprisingly bright and cool color, for those 1w leds.. *scratches head*
    and while thinking this, the first leds begin to dim. begin to glow very dim, but blue. begin to glow brownish. the first led explodes. the second setup (in parallel to the first, now dead string) shines normally. a bit later, the first led of this string goes dim, a dark spot forms in the phosphor.

    ok, i admit it, i turned it off immediately, and plugged it in again, to see what will ultimatively happen.. the leds were damaged anyway.

    so.. all three "voltage dropping" leds died almost instantly. one from the other string died. the led connected to the output survived, in each setup.

    never had a led explode, before.. i guess the transformer either has much more than 15v, or i connected the 1735 wrong. will check the voltage of the transformer now..

    manuel

  12. #162
    Enlightened krutzbeuazen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    i checked the trafo: 60v with no load, 11v when connected to a halogen bulb.
    ..i better watch out to short it before connecting anything.. ;-)

    i checked the 7135 datacheet, connected everything again, here goes another led.

    i then used another 7135 chip, bare, not connected to its board. works, drawn 220mA, stays stable, eventually (a minute) it starts flashing because of overheating.

    hint: check the boards you use, even when you removed anything, there might be surprises left..
    cost me 5 leds to find out.. i have exactly 12 left for three strings, better be careful now! :-)

    manuel

  13. #163
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    krutzbeuazen,

    Basic rule: 1x Li-ion or 3x NiMH to 1x LED.

    7135 can't handle the voltage range excessively. (3-6V only)
    Suggested to use 110/220V driver directly to your leds.

  14. #164
    Flashaholic* Changchung's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    I just finish my triple P7, I am really happy with it, I am using this driver;

    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=1845

    With the 2 Leds in serie technique



    THANKS
    Zebralight Spark Princeton Inova Petzl Maglite Bushnell 4 XM-L MagMod and a lot of Cree XM-L Lights Nitecore i4 Intellicharger Intl-outdoor 3400 Panasonic 3100 Bare and protected Samsung 3000 Sanyo 2600
    Please, respect the planet, dont kill animals...

  15. #165
    Flashaholic* lolzertank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Just a quick question...

    The diagrams say the drivers are multi level. From what I know, the levels are implemented through PWM on the supply pin on the 7135 chips. Once the microcontroller turns the 7135s off, doesn't that drop the forward voltage of the LEDs to zero because there's almost no current (couple uA of leakage)? So let's say I used 2x fully charged Li-ion. Wouldn't the 8+ volts fry the AMC7135s (8 - 0 - 0 = 8 )?

    I can think of three (crazy?) explanations.
    1. The microcontroller draws a little current through the first LED, causing the vF to increase and protect the rest of the circuit.
    2. The AMC7135's internal transistor can handle more than 7 volts, despite what the datasheet says about the maximum voltage on the OUT pin.
    3. There's so little current it really doesn't matter.

    Maybe I answered my own question. Still want a 2nd opinion though before I burn something
    Awesome! I just got the Luxoulree Z4 bin XD-Q! Wait... are you saying they released the Z5 bin the day after I bought it?

  16. #166
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    lolzertank,

    When the 7135 driver turn off 100% to the master LED (which connected to driver) It will be no light.
    But the 1x slave LED will get a few mA, so it will light up barely.

    Battery 8.4V ---> (Driver will turn extra 1V to heat + Master LED 3.7V ) + ( Slave LED 3.7V )

    Battery 12.6V ---> (Driver will turn extra 1.5V to heat + Master LED 3.7V ) + ( Slave LED 3.7V ) + ( Slave LED 3.7V )


  17. #167
    Flashaholic* lolzertank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    I'm not sure you understand my question. Obviously, a LED driven at a couple microamps/nanoamps will have a forward voltage far less than 3.7. Basically I'm trying to figure out what happens when the LED's forward voltage drops when the AMC7135 switches off, mainly whether it'll destroy the AMC7135 chips if the forward voltage drops so much that the voltage across the regulator goes over 7v.

    Now that I think of it, I have this huge 10 pack of 1.4A boards ready to have traces cut, improperly used and possibly killed in the name of science... One chip less won't hurt, right?
    Awesome! I just got the Luxoulree Z4 bin XD-Q! Wait... are you saying they released the Z5 bin the day after I bought it?

  18. #168
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    3. There's so little current it really doesn't matter.

    Just wire it, you will see how it works.

  19. #169
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Thanks for the help! I'll try it!
    Awesome! I just got the Luxoulree Z4 bin XD-Q! Wait... are you saying they released the Z5 bin the day after I bought it?

  20. #170
    Flashaholic* jar3ds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    so could we use this same idea with the taskled HipFlex? I want to run 5 P7's w/ 6xLiON's... since 6xLiONs=25.2v (the HipFlex has a max of 24v)...

    would running the battery right into 1 P7 to drop the total voltage down a Vf to ~21.7v, then put it that into the HipFlex and connect the remaining 4 in series just like normal?

    Thanks!

  21. #171
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    georges80
    is the creator of HipFlex.
    He sure have a better answer than me.

  22. #172
    Flashaholic* jar3ds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    thanks download for your help.... this is what i got from george:

    25.2V exceeds the max input spec of 25V. You could put a series diode into the VIN+ line to drop the voltage down 0.5V or so.

    cheers,
    george.
    so I'd assume I could do it with an LED instead of just a normal diode? If this would work, it would be the slickest setup...

    Theres something telling me though "its too good to be true" with this... i sware I have to be missing something.... i feel like this setup breaks the laws of physics or something

  23. #173
    Flashaholic* download's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    George's driver is one of the best for flashlight mod.
    You got the right choice.

  24. #174
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Quote Originally Posted by jar3ds View Post
    so I'd assume I could do it with an LED instead of just a normal diode? If this would work, it would be the slickest setup.
    Yes, of course it would work, but you'd get a greater difference in current than the 200 µA difference in the AMC7135 setup. A quick calculation (assuming 90% efficiency) suggests it would be around 2,000 mA, because that's what the driver would draw to power four LEDs at 2,800 mA.

    No laws of physics broken, just not the result you may have been looking for. Driving all five LEDs together (in series) would have them running on the same current.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
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  25. #175
    Flashaholic The Dane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    Yes, of course it would work, but you'd get a greater difference in current than the 200 µA difference in the AMC7135 setup. A quick calculation (assuming 90% efficiency) suggests it would be around 2,000 mA, because that's what the driver would draw to power four LEDs at 2,800 mA.

    No laws of physics broken, just not the result you may have been looking for. Driving all five LEDs together (in series) would have them running on the same current.
    Errrrr no!
    If the board delivers 2800mA to it's LED's and have a loss of 10% then it uses 2800mA+280mA or 3080ma wich the series LED would see. So if anything one LED will be ever so slightly brighter than the rest, but nothing noticeable to the naked eye.
    Dont go spoiling a perfectly good thread with too many facts.
    Henrik
    Creator of The Axe and the BigM*g and i'm sure more silly projects will follow

  26. #176
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Hej Henrik. Sorry, I thought the Hipflex was a buck driver, so it'll draw less current on in the input if the output is at a significantly lower voltage. I suppose I should have been a bit more meticulous and worked out the power on each side of the driver instead of doing it in one step...

    Out: 2.8 A @ 14 V = 39.2 W.
    In: 39.2/90% = 43.5 W @ 21.7 V = 2.00 A.

    Still works. I hope I'm not spoiling the thread with that, eh.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
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  27. #177

    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Hi,

    I have got a question about this desing. I hope someone can help me out. First I am going to redraw Download diagram in a way that is easier for me to understand:



    So far I'm using a board with 2 amc7135 and another one with 8 amc7135 with a switch in between so i can have a low (700ma) and a high(2800ma) modes (bicycle use). It works great but, it maybe an easier and simpler way to do it.
    It is possible to feed the AMC7135 board with a different voltage reference so the whole set of LEDS will dim. As in this mod of Download diagram:



    The resistor R1 would put the voltage down to about 3.6volts, then the potentiometer, used as a variable resistor, would let you choose the voltage from about 3volts to 3.6volts. I understand that the amc chip has a very low comsuption, so R1 won't need to be bulky. Even the pot can be replace by several resistors to be switched to get different modes. Another advantage is that only two cables need to be pass throw the heatsink into the leds room. Can someone clarify if this would work? cheers

    sorry for my poor skills drawing diagrams.
    Last edited by javiole; 09-28-2009 at 04:02 AM.

  28. #178
    Flashaholic* download's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    javiole,
    Just use this 8x 7135 driver, it has MCU (multi-level control IC). Like 3 or 5 mode.
    Power on & off to change the mode you like, eg: High 2.8A, mid 1A, low 300
    mA ......

    Wiring is same as my original diagram. It will be fine.


  29. #179
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    javiole, I think you would get a very twitchy output. The AMC7135 drops out of regulation at 2.7 V. With a polarity protection diode that becomes about 3.3 V (not 3.6 V). Unregulated the AMC7135 may be a little unpredictable and I suspect a very small change in the resistance of your potentiometer would make big changes in the output current, so you might have trouble setting it as you want. The dropout voltage graph in the datasheet is about the only help it offers. Having said all that, it sounds like a very interesting way to use them. Give it a go and let us know if it's practical.

    download, where is that driver from? I list it as "unsourced" since I've only seen a photo posted before (from Alibaba) but no retail links.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
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  30. #180
    Flashaholic* Aircraft800's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poorman Mutli-Lux setup method

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    javiole, I think you would get a very twitchy output. The AMC7135 drops out of regulation at 2.7 V. With a polarity protection diode that becomes about 3.3 V (not 3.6 V). Unregulated the AMC7135 may be a little unpredictable and I suspect a very small change in the resistance of your potentiometer would make big changes in the output current, so you might have trouble setting it as you want. The dropout voltage graph in the datasheet is about the only help it offers. Having said all that, it sounds like a very interesting way to use them. Give it a go and let us know if it's practical.

    download, where is that driver from? I list it as "unsourced" since I've only seen a photo posted before (from Alibaba) but no retail links.
    That was the 3-Mode Regulated Circuit Board for Cree MC-E and SSC P7 sold by Shiningbeam.com SKU 1217. It has been removed from the site
    Last edited by Aircraft800; 09-28-2009 at 07:19 PM.

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