Need better bulb for an old classic.

BreathingMeat · Jul 29, 2008

I was looking for sturdy light to keep in the truck for changing tires in the dark and such, something that adjusts up and down and wouldn't blow over in a stiff wind. Couldn't find anything in the way of a modern light I liked, so I went with an old (NOS) Eveready #9101 off eBay. You know, sealed beam bulb connected to a spiffy chrome handle with a hefty 6V battery hanging underneath.

When I got it out of the box, I chuckled because I had forgotten I had one of these as a kid (that one had the flashing red taillight, too). Anyhow, I had also forgotten just how crummy the light is from one of these things: yellow, asymetrical beam, full of rings, dark spots, etc.

Here are the specs for the stock bulb: GE #45461, 2.35 watt (.5 AMP) 4.7 volt PAR36 Sealed Beam

Question is: Is there a reasonably priced replacement for a PAR36 with a nice, white flood-type beam that wouldn't suck the battery dry in 2.5 minutes?

Ledtronics has a led bulb for $60, but I don't know anything about the type of beam. There are inexpensive halogens out there, but they seem to be in the 30W - 40W range at 6V.

Thoughts?

Juggernaut · Jul 29, 2008

You my good man, have got yourself a very fine light. As for as bulbs go you can by the 4547. It is really the only other bulb you can buy that will work in that light with the standard battery. Any bulb using more than 5 volts will not work with the standard 6 volt batteries. So options are limited. The 4547 6w normally coast about $34 "instead of the standard 4546 which goes for $10 "make sure to not buy generic bulbs" is your battery new? Because normally these lights produce very white out puts. If the beam isn't narrow than you might have a cheap yellow crappy generic bulb installed. Note: be careful with the 4547 bulb because it is easer than normal to blew, though treated nicely it will last 10X longer that a normal RP bulb.

If you have any other questions about these style lights be sure to ask me if you want.
:welcome:

BreathingMeat · Jul 29, 2008

Well... It's fine in that it does what I wanted it to do (stays put and is adjustable, position wise), but the beam is really pretty crappy.

Yes, the battery is fresh. I checked the dust covered ones at the local hardware stores and opted, instead, for an online dealer with a higher turnover. The alkaline version I bought had a "best if used by" date around 4 years later than those available locally.

There's the possibility that I found a number on the bulb, and used that generic number to find the specs on the GE part (I'll have to go back and check). I'll also be sure to take a look at the 4547 bulb you mention.

Jeez, you know, it just seems like there's a whole lotta' potential there. I've got a Fenix L2D Q5 Premium that can crank out an (arguably) 170 lumens of nice, white light from 2 AA batteries and here we have a 6V source with tons of AH's and the best beam that can be had resembles that of a candle (sigh).

Thanks, - BM

Juggernaut: Thanks much for the welcome, but I've actually been around for a while. I'm not able to contribute much as you people usually go way beyond whatever amount of light knowledge I can possibly retain. ...but keep it up, I enjoy the reading.

Juggernaut said:
You my good man, have got yourself a very fine light. As for as bulbs go you can by the 4547. It is really the only other bulb you can buy that will work in that light with the standard battery. Any bulb using more than 5 volts will not work with the standard 6 volt batteries. So options are limited. The 4547 6w normally coast about $34 "instead of the standard 4546 which goes for $10 "make sure to not buy generic bulbs" is your battery new? Because normally these lights produce very white out puts. If the beam isn't narrow than you might have a cheap yellow crappy generic bulb installed. Note: be careful with the 4547 bulb because it is easer than normal to blew, though treated nicely it will last 10X longer that a normal RP bulb.

If you have any other questions about these style lights be sure to ask me if you want.
:welcome:

BreathingMeat · Jul 30, 2008

I checked the number on the stock bulb, it is indeed a genuine GE #4546-1.

Does anyone know what Streamlight does with their line of Vulcan lights? They kept coming up in a search for "PAR36" bulbs and there was some mention of an 8W halogen.

There was also this interesting tidbit in their parts catalog:

Kit, Par-36 Lamp Retrofit, Orange 40107 $11.00

lctorana · Jul 30, 2008

The 8W halogen bulb is a H7550, but that is 6V, not 4.8, so needs either 5 dry cells, or a 6V lead-acid battery.

We didn' mention it because it means a change of battery, or some sort of modification.

The 4547 (or a 4547-1, if you can find one) is most definitely the bulb to get.

precisionworks · Jul 30, 2008

One of the custom modders (who often post on Custom & Modified B/S/T) could probably build a driver/converter that would allow the 6v lantern battery to power an LED ... or quite a few LEDs. Certainly worth a post there.

If you want to try to do it yourself, a SureFire head (KX2) should be voltage-compatible with the lantern batt. I've purchased a few on The Marketplace B/S/T, usually in the $30 to $40 range. If you aren't pleased with the result, relist on B/S/T.

jerry i h · Jul 30, 2008

I saw the LED PAR36: http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/par36/
:huh: OK: I admit it; I live under a rock. I have never seen anything like that.
First, if the light is not strong: take apart the bulb and batt, and scrape all the contacts clean. Might make the light brighter, but won't improve the icky beam.
Out of curiosity, I looked for PAR36, inasmuchas I have never seen one before. There are a lot of places you can get it:
http://www.bulbdirect.com/products/product.php?item_id=2475&cat_id=5661
http://www.servicelighting.com/GE-4...6-Special-Application-Incandescent-Light-Bulb
http://www.servicelighting.com/Sealed-Beam-Special-Application-Incandescent-Light-Bulbs
problem: some of them have bases that look slightly different from the 45461. You will have to check to see if these other, more powerful, more battery-draining, higher watt bulbs will do the trick.
I like the idea of that LED replacement, it will certainly turn your lantern into a blowtorch. OTOH, there is much to be said for retaining original configuration.

lctorana · Jul 30, 2008

jerry i h said:
I saw the LED PAR36: http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/par36/
:huh: OK: I admit it; I live under a rock. I have never seen anything like that.

Nor had I.

A showerhead built into a PAR36 envelope.

20 times the lumens of a 4546 incan.

BUT and it's a massive BUT - a tiny fraction of the throw.

The standard 4546 throws a mile - yes, 1760 yards - with only 17 lumens.

Depends what you want out of the light, I suppose.

Juggernaut · Jul 31, 2008

lctorana said:
Nor had I.

A showerhead built into a PAR36 envelope.

20 times the lumens of a 4546 incan.

BUT and it's a massive BUT - a tiny fraction of the throw.

The standard 4546 throws a mile - yes, 1760 yards - with only 17 lumens.

Depends what you want out of the light, I suppose.

I was like Wow that's worth looking in to I…..Oh $59.50 never mine. I would buy them for like $15-20 but besides mass output / longer bulb life, they do not really provide enough for that price. They both consume more power and do not have the completely awesome throw of the cheap 4546 stock bulb. One thing to add though, as for as places to buy bulbs I normally use a combination of http://www.servicelighting.com/Seale...nt-Light-Bulbs and when I found a bulb I like, I head on over to http://www.atrlighting.com/webstore/atrretail.php It is normally hard to find stuff by just looking there, but if you know what you want and use the search you will find great info on any bulb just about ever made. Also ATR seems for the most part to keep up to date photos of each bulb so normally you get to see the actual one your looking for instead of another similar bulb "like on bulbdirect for the 4547 is does not show the actual bulb, instead it shows some sort of spread beam bulb with a none smooth lens." :thumbsup:

BreathingMeat · Jul 31, 2008

lctorana: We didn' mention it because...

Aha! I knew it, you guys were holding out on me!

I got the battery out and tried the light again last night. I take back what I said about a "yellow" beam. It does indeed have a very intense, white, oddly shaped hot spot with a ghostly side spill. Not at all a flood, which is what I was expecting when I bought it. I still think the beam is, as jerry i h puts it, "icky" (guess I've been spoiled by led lights more than I realized, plus I was expecting a flood).

Having a modder make a replacement bulb probably isn't in the cards. With a sealed beam bulb, the emitter, reflector, and lens is all one piece, so it becomes a mechanical problem more so than an electrical one.

I may try the ledtronics led bulb for grins at some point. I'm more than willing to sacrifice range for a good flood.

Is the dry-cell/lead-acid difference still an issue with the led replacement? (looks like they're intented for use with as emergency lighting and hence lead-acid batteries)

jerry i h: I have never seen anything like that.
lctorana: Nor had I.

Oh, you younguns'. I should post a pic.

Still think this minimalist "frame with bulb and humungous battery" arrangement would make a good platform for some awesome led lights. A Mallory 6V alkaline is rated at 27AH, BTW.

edit: Here's a link to a photo. The black plastic bezel unscrews and the bulb just flops out. It has tab-type terminals on the back.

Juggernaut · Jul 31, 2008

BreathingMeat said:
Aha! I knew it, you guys were holding out on me!

I got the battery out and tried the light again last night. I take back what I said about a "yellow" beam. It does indeed have a very intense, white, oddly shaped hot spot with a ghostly side spill. Not at all a flood, which is what I was expecting when I bought it. I still think the beam is, as jerry i h puts it, "icky" (guess I've been spoiled by led lights more than I realized, plus I was expecting a flood).

Having a modder make a replacement bulb probably isn't in the cards. With a sealed beam bulb, the emitter, reflector, and lens is all one piece, so it becomes a mechanical problem more so than an electrical one.

I may try the ledtronics led bulb for grins at some point. I'm more than willing to sacrifice range for a good flood.

Is the dry-cell/lead-acid difference still an issue with the led replacement? (looks like they're intented for use with as emergency lighting and hence lead-acid batteries)

Oh, you younguns'. I should post a pic.

Still think this minimalist "frame with bulb and humungous battery" arrangement would make a good platform for some awesome led lights. A Mallory 6V alkaline is rated at 27AH, BTW.

edit: Here's a link to a photo. The black plastic bezel unscrews and the bulb just flops out. It has tab-type terminals on the back.

The truth is you need not to go to the extreme of building your own LED bulb if you want to take a gamble you can simply by the homemade Par36 - RP based bulb conversion. In which case you can simply drop in any sort of LED such as the EverLED, or 4 cell MagLED. Conversion is simply buying a used 7 Cell RayOvac sportsmen and taking it's reflector and lens out, soldering leads on to the bulb and brass reflector and presto. The gamble is the problem, most of these lights I have found have hideous reflectors and badly cracked, melted, and oxide lens:thumbsdow:sick2:. And some of the lens come in two piece assembly's:sigh:.

jerry i h · Jul 31, 2008

BreathingMeat said:
...Oh, you younguns'. I should post a pic...

Come, come, now: they still make it:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/9101ind.pdf
http://www.batteriesandbutter.com/M...=PROD&Product_Code=9101IND&Category_Code=lafl
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKLU18/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Couse, they no longer have the cool-guy-blinky-red-tail-light; and the spec sheet has a typo for the bulb type.
It might be worth getting one just to see what 4 dozen LED's look like, all lit up together.
You know, if the PAR36/LED sub is more or less direct drive with only a buck circuit or resistor, it might just work with a dry cell.

lctorana · Jul 31, 2008

I already have a 128-LED "showerhead" torch with a 4" head, so I know EXACTLY what it would look like.

Mine outshines even a Cree Q5 running flat-out, and should give a R2 a good run for its money. It takes a 20W monster or a P7 to put it down.

It's very useful, but I totally don't need to waste a valuable sealed-beam lantern body on this...

Juggernaut · Aug 1, 2008

jerry i h said:
Come, come, now: they still make it:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/9101ind.pdf
http://www.batteriesandbutter.com/M...=PROD&Product_Code=9101IND&Category_Code=lafl
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KKLU18/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Couse, they no longer have the cool-guy-blinky-red-tail-light; and the spec sheet has a typo for the bulb type.
It might be worth getting one just to see what 4 dozen LED's look like, all lit up together.
You know, if the PAR36/LED sub is more or less direct drive with only a buck circuit or resistor, it might just work with a dry cell.

I almost pissed myself when I saw the illustration of the light "supposedly bouncing off the ground" under rough abuse :ohgeez:

! Come my mind can barely comprehend that 5 pound monster doing anything but falling through the floor! It should have had an "Warning sign" saying: Danger drooping light may lead to serious injury or death to those on the floor beneath you :crackup:

. As for all the sealed beam Energizer links and "they still make them" well yes but if you want a real sealed beam lantern you have to buy one from Big Beam who in deed still carries a full line of these vintage lights:twothumbs!

BreathingMeat · Aug 1, 2008

jerry i h said:
Come, come, now: they still make it:

Interesting. I had no idea they were still available. I may have to get another while I still can.

I miss the one with the red blinky light I had as a kid. With all the chrome, the big, round headlight, and the red taillight, it bore a striking resemblance to my Dad's '59 Chevy Impala (if it only had fins...).

Whatever happened to that light? I dunno'. I suspect it went MIA when my Dad suddenly realized that batteries cost money and need to be replaced.

lctorana · Aug 1, 2008

BreathingMeat said:
It does indeed have a very intense, white, oddly shaped hot spot with a ghostly side spill. Not at all a flood, which is what I was expecting when I bought it. I still think the beam is, as jerry i h puts it, "icky" (guess I've been spoiled by led lights more than I realized, plus I was expecting a flood).

Shine it at a white wall and you'll be absolutely underwhelmed.

"Is that IT?" you will think. All that battery, all that weight, and that huge bulb, just for THAT?

And yes, it's only 17 lumens.

But - 6,300 candlepower.

Now take that torch outside on a dark night, and see how far that throws. A mile is no exaggeration.

Far from having a floodlight (although floody bulbs are, of course available), you have the ultimate thrower. Nothing in this wattage range will come NEAR it for throw.

lctorana · Aug 1, 2008

BreathingMeat said:
edit: Here's a link to a photo. The black plastic bezel unscrews and the bulb just flops out. It has tab-type terminals on the back.

I have been eyeing off a current-model Energizer for about a year now. I have just GOT to get a friendly Yank to send me one.

Oh, and the battery? You underestimate by a factor of two! Your figure would be for the 4F spring-terminal lantern battery. 8F lantern batteries, with 2 parallel strings of F cells, have double that capacity - Duracell claim 48Ah for theirs, Energizer 52Ah. So if Mallory are still trading, they would claim 54 Ah!

Juggernaut · Aug 1, 2008

lctorana said:
Shine it at a white wall and you'll be absolutely underwhelmed.

"Is that IT?" you will think. All that battery, all that weight, and that huge bulb, just for THAT?

And yes, it's only 17 lumens.

But - 6,300 candlepower.

Now take that torch outside on a dark night, and see how far that throws. A mile is no exaggeration.

Far from having a floodlight (although floody bulbs are, of course available), you have the ultimate thrower. Nothing in this wattage range will come NEAR it for throw.

You know, I was always content with the 4546 flood pattern. Because according to my eyes if you use the light in a normal size room and place it on the floor "head up" I swear it fills the room with more light then a 4D Maglite on it's wide setting. I think it might have to do with the fact that while the Mag is more powerful, only the reflection of light from the ceiling will light the room. While the 4546 will get reflection from the ceiling and the 180 degree flood to hit the rest of the room. It may be a dull flood but it still makes the difference to my eyes. You can always upgrade to the 4547 bulb as we have said but I always liked the long run time with the stock bulb. Using the upgrade bulb will make the alkaline 8F battery run like a Heavy duty 4F battery with the stock bulb. Or it could be that I'm just to cheap :broke:

.

BreathingMeat · Aug 1, 2008

lctorana said:
Oh, and the battery? You underestimate by a factor of two! Your figure would be for the 4F spring-terminal lantern battery. 8F lantern batteries, with 2 parallel strings of F cells, have double that capacity - Duracell claim 48Ah for theirs, Energizer 52Ah. So if Mallory are still trading, they would claim 54 Ah!

My mistake, I still use the Mallory name when referring to Duracells. In particular, the Procell #MN918. I've seen AH figures from 27 to 40 AH for that brand/model. The equivalent Eveready, #521, has a crude graph of AH ratings measured at 25 and 100mA discharge currents here.

The people that run the Duracell and Eveready websites should all be taken out and shot! Useless, utterly useless. ...and I should never be forced to watch a Flash animation before even being offered a link to the products from the homepage. :scowl:

BreathingMeat · Aug 1, 2008

Juggernaut said:
... was always content with the 4546 flood pattern.

See, this is where my flashlight ignorance kicks in. How can you call what that bulb puts out a "flood"? To me it seems like a hyper-spot.

Need better bulb for an old classic.

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