un-activated d cells

Hi,I just bought a CODE RED flashlight that comes with 4 d cells(at a church rummage sale).The flashlight is just a common plastic rubber construction that uses a PR2 bulb no big deal,but here is where it gets interesting.The batteries are un-mixed,you have to turn the top of them so the liquid(thats in them)mixes.It says that these batteries will last 20 years(if not activated).It sounds like a good idea.The flashlight still had the sticker on it,it was purchased from Radio Shack for $15.88.I am guessing the late 80's.The company that produced it is Energetics corporation Redmond Washington.Anyone with any info?What could the liquid be in them?Thanks.

my first guess is that the liquid is an electrolyte...but you guessed that already
I'm sure. The chemical makeup is probably an acid but surely not lemon juice

Could you post some pictures of the batteries and the light?

It sounds like a real historical item to be preserved!!! Like those original
Barbie dolls that now sell for $1000 each?

I've seen this sort of thing mentioned on CPF but I really can't remember what they're called.

This is interesting. Can you provide pictures? The system can't have been much good if such batteries are unavailable today, though.

hopkins said:

my first guess is that the liquid is an electrolyte...but you guessed that already
I'm sure. The chemical makeup is probably an acid but surely not lemon juice

Could you post some pictures of the batteries and the light?

It sounds like a real historical item to be preserved!!! Like those original
Barbie dolls that now sell for $1000 each?

Click to expand...

The liquid is an electrolyte; it's either sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide. The cells are fairly low capacity compared to modern alkaline D cells, but will last a long time in storage which is exactly what they are designed for.

darn .....a base not an acid! Well I had a 50/50 chance a being wrong and I've
got a SLA 6volt on the desk here so...

Tried to search the web for pictures of twist top activated D-cells but no luck.

Please post some pictures of those things if you can.

hopkins said:

darn .....a base not an acid!

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Ah now, the "alkaline" in alkaline-manganese cells might have given you a clue as to what it was most likely to be...

well sure, I hope that would have clued me in, but I've reread Loving Light's OP a couple times and he does not mention any chemistry info on the twist top D-cells thus his query.
Maybe he'll cautiously cut one open and test the mystery juice with litmus paper?
(i.e. an acid turns blue litmus paper red and a base turns red litmus paper blue
- for you CPFers who have not had a chemistry class yet)

Morepower sounds like you know about these type of batteries. Any info
we could follow on the web to see these things?

Re: un-activated D cells

hopkins said:

Maybe he'll cautiously cut one open and test the mystery juice with litmus paper?
(i.e. an acid turns blue litmus paper red and a base turns red litmus paper blue
- for you CPFers who have not had a chemistry class yet)

Click to expand...

Nah, red cabbage juice all the way! Or FTW as the case may be, depending on your country of vernacular.

hopkins said:

well sure, I hope that would have clued me in, but I've reread Loving Light's OP a couple times and he does not mention any chemistry info on the twist top D-cells thus his query.
Maybe he'll cautiously cut one open and test the mystery juice with litmus paper?
(i.e. an acid turns blue litmus paper red and a base turns red litmus paper blue
- for you CPFers who have not had a chemistry class yet)

Morepower sounds like you know about these type of batteries. Any info
we could follow on the web to see these things?

Click to expand...

Google is your friend; search for "code red" battery

http://www.911emergencykits.com/site/745186/product/L33
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10996
http://www.quakekare.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=47

On further review, the liquid may be plain water which upon activation mixes with solid potassium hydroxide that is dispersed in the zinc powder of the anode.

Thanks MorePower!I tried to do a search(but I couldn't find anything).It really sounds like a good ideal,20 year shelf life(better than lithium?).Why do you guy's and girl's think that this never became mainstream?Sounds like a good battery for an Emergency kit.Thanks again to everyone for your help.:twothumbs

MorePower said:

Google is your friend; search for "code red" battery

http://www.911emergencykits.com/site/745186/product/L33
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10996
http://www.quakekare.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=47

Click to expand...

:thinking: - So I wonder if these are "old" stock or of recent manufacture? None of the references make mention of date codes. So the question of the day might be:
20 year life starting from when?. 20 years from 1988 would be about right for these to start showing up for sale. Right about the time their 20 shelf live ends...

loving light said:

Thanks MorePower!I tried to do a search(but I couldn't find anything).It really sounds like a good ideal,20 year shelf life(better than lithium?).Why do you guy's and girl's think that this never became mainstream?Sounds like a good battery for an Emergency kit.Thanks again to everyone for your help.:twothumbs

Click to expand...

They're expensive, they're more difficult to manufacture, and they have relatively low capacity.

Personally, I'd just use normal alkaline cells in an emergency kit, check them every year or so, and replace them every 5 years or so.

Re: un-activated D cells

MorePower said:

... and replace them every 5 years or so.

Click to expand...

Which works well for the manufacturers, too.

to be anywhere near as productive as manufactured alkalines that mixture has to be well mixed after you turn it....and even then it may act just like zinc oxide cells...probably will work if someone creates a D cell adapter for the fenix E01 or the ARC but doubtful for anything else :candle:

loving light said:

The flashlight still had the sticker on it,it was purchased from Radio Shack for $15.88.I am guessing the late 80's.

Click to expand...

From one of the websites:
Wow... a revolutionary 20 year old breakthrough! :thinking:

Turbo DV8 said:

From one of the websites:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]​

Wow... a revolutionary 20 year old breakthrough! :thinking:

Click to expand...

well...20 years ago the ability to set wet cells into binary components that's stable enough to sustain itself over a span of 20 years could be considered a breakthrough

I wonder how the plastic can contain the electrolyte without it eating through though...possibly a glass vial set to have the tube tip shaved off by a shear when you turn it?

Illum_the_nation said:

well...20 years ago the ability to set wet cells into binary components that's stable enough to sustain itself over a span of 20 years could be considered a breakthrough

I wonder how the plastic can contain the electrolyte without it eating through though...possibly a glass vial set to have the tube tip shaved off by a shear when you turn it?

Click to expand...

There are a number of types of plastic that have good resistance to degradation by alkaline electrolyte.

If Loving Light is willing to activate one of the Code Red twist top D-cell's
It would be very informative to do some tests on it to see if these thing are
worth buying.

Suggested tests
1. unloaded output voltage after the initial twist and mix shaking.
2. Momentary short circuit max current measurement.
3 output voltage under various loads, 5ohms, 10ohms, 100ohms, 1000ohms.
4. Does additional shaking bring it 'back to life' after some use?

hopkins said:

2. Momentary short circuit max current measurement.
3 output voltage under various loads, 5ohms, 10ohms, 100ohms, 1000ohms.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be better to reverse the complete sequence?

Wulf