ELE II Battery Holder & Switch Melting...help

choppers

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Hi Guys,

I set up my ELE II today with 8 Emoli cells running the Osram 64657 Lamp with a Hi temp KIU socket. Since there was space at the top of the battery holder I use 3 Nylon washers to fill the gap. Got everything secure and put in the holder + batteries, put on the tail-cap and turned on the light. Instantly it burned my finger and began to smell. I instantly turned it off. I took off the tail-cap and this is what I found:
23936499pb6.jpg

74145585tx2.jpg

81803673jt3.jpg





Any ideas of what went wrong??
Was it the nylon washers?
KIU Socket?
Should I have been using an AW Soft start switch?

Any help/advise/recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys,

Tony
 
Last edited:

Bullzeyebill

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Sounds like too much current for the switch to handle. What is the current draw from the batteries?

Bill
 

sylathnie

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If you are using the stock mag switch core it can't handle that sort of current. I just turns into a small heating element. :poof:

Take a look at this thread for some tips on how to soup up your switch.

Take this as a nice warning as to how much power you are playing with and be careful :thumbsup:
 

choppers

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If you are using the stock mag switch core it can't handle that sort of current. I just turns into a small heating element. :poof:

Take a look at this thread for some tips on how to soup up your switch.

Take this as a nice warning as to how much power you are playing with and be careful :thumbsup:
Would using a AW soft start switch solve the problem? I am not sure I can perform the modification to the switch you suggested...
 

LuxLuthor

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I have had some issues with the design of the Ellie-II, and I am not exactly sure what caused this instance, Chopper.

I have expressed my findings previously in PM's to FiveMega, but I am now concerned about this as a safety issue that your instance raises. I am making this post with absolutely no intention to impugn or demean Fivemega's reputation/quality. FiveMega remains my favorite modder.

My major issues were the inside ridge that blocks using a KIU/Mag D switch (above switch hole), and the top battery holder plate makes contact with narrow body (below switch hole).

FM told me that this Ellie was designed primarily to work with the AW Soft-Starting multi-level switch, which uses the ridge, and isolates the battery holder top. However, AW's switch is only rated to work with 150W which is easy to exceed with overdriving 90-100W bulbs--so many would need to use KIU setup with 4s or higher Li-Ion setups.

In addition, FM's sales thread says the Ellie-II will "accomodate this type (AW) switch or stock M*g "D" switch." (which is a part of the KIU assembly that you used, Choppers). To use the KIU/stock switch you have to Dremel grind out the inside ridge (just above the switch hole).

With this design, the FM Ellie-2 battery holder top contact plate (& Modamag's quad-wide 18650 as well) is too wide. If you slide an empty quad-18650 battery holder inside of an empty Ellie-II, you will see that the cap makes metal on metal contact with the narrow neck of the body, below the switch area. This will result in a dead short of the positive battery pack against the negative grounded body. I do not regard the HA inside coating as an adequate insulator for this high voltge pack.

Looking at your pictures, Chopper, I cannot rule out the possibility that you may have had a dead short created from this scenario. I do not believe a switch overheating would give such a damage pattern on the top of battery holder as you show. Obviously if the inside plastic of the switch is all melted, it may be from that. Look inside of the body to see if it appears the HA coating shows arc electrical damage to verify the cause. If there was an arc/dead-short, it may also have heated and melted the bottom of the Mag switch.

The safest resolution which would be to get a thin Delrin or Nylon washer that would insulate the top battery contact plate from the inside narrow body area. After brought to his attention, I feel FM should have sent a cheap, thin insulator washer out to everyone purchasing the Ellie, or redesigned the cap with the same kind of insulating plastic layer he provided in his 3x17670 M-6 Battery holder here. The voltage and current output of 4x18650 Li-Ion (especially Emoli/Sony-V) is no joke. Then there are the 8s & 12s holders with body extensions that could be downright dangerous.

Now in FM's defense, should the buyer/user have an awareness of these kind of issues before purchasing? Yes. Do they all? No. This is the first FM product (of which I have bought many--and praise his quality routinely) that I have had this safety concern, and people should be aware of it and careful.

The other non-safety item in the Ellie-II sales thread which is not correct is where he says the Ellie-2 "Can accept all FM3 heads, 3.5" and even M*g "D" head." In fact, none of the 6 x FM3H-2 heads I have will fit the threads of the Ellie-II. All other FM3 & 3.5" heads will fit the Ellie-2. Interestingly, my FM3H-2 heads fit the original Elephant threads. There is no easy way to resolve this, so I have accepted it, but sales thread should be corrected.
 

choppers

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Thanks for your feedback Lux.

Looking at the inside of the body the "ridge" that the Battery Holder hits looks to be melted/removed. So your theory is correct I think about an arc/dead-short.

So even is I get an AW switch...should I still get the thin Nylon layer to protect the top of the battery holder to eliminate contact?

Thanks again for your help/feedback,
 
Last edited:

LuxLuthor

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It is hard to be sure of parts integrity once this has occurred, so I would recommend you contact FM about this. Check your batteries too.
 

cmacclel

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I just checked the Elle II I have here and see the problem.

The Brass contact on the battery holder does make contact with the body with the stock mag switch installed. The easiest fix would be to install a plastic washer but since the brass contact is cut tapered this may be a problem. To fix it correctly you would just need to make the upper brass contact a smaller diameter.


If anyone (US only)wants this done before FM gets a hold of things they can send them to me for rework, just pay for return shipping and a $1 envelope. The upper contact weights under 2 ounces so First class should be cheap.

Mac
 

LuxLuthor

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WoW, sending mine to you Mac. This was exactly what I asked FM to do with these tops...to no avail. So this is really nice and everyone should take note. Email sent...also about possibly doing Modmag's that have the same problem.


  • The bottom of Mag D Switch measures 1.337" so any larger battery top will contact metal around bottom of switch.

  • Original Elephant top contact measures 1.24"

  • Ellie-2 top contact measures 1.495"

  • Modamag 4x18650 holder top is 1.625"

Sometimes a picture makes it clearer for people.

ellie-2.jpg
 
Last edited:

choppers

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WoW, sending mine to you Mac. This was exactly what I asked FM to do with these tops...to no avail. So this is really nice and everyone should take note.
Agree Lux. Thank you Mac. Will be sending you a couple.

Thank you,
 

sylathnie

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Ahhh that makes alot more sense than a switch short. I couldn't figure out how that burn pattern was produced but I have seen shorts do stranger things.
I replaced my contact on the bottom of my mag switch with a copper rivet that stands about .25" away from the bottom of the stock switch. That must be what is saving me.
Excellent find Lux.
 

cnjl3

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I have to admit that I am a little bit disappointed with FM's reply when I asked him if he was going to offer a solution to his V2 "Elle" design flaw which can lead to a "Dead Short." I notice FM has already edited his Version2 Elephant sell thread and his only words to me were to make sure that the MAG switch was not inserted "too far in." Lucky for me Mac did his magic on my V2 "Elle" battery carrier postive cap and now I feel 100% safe that my battery carrier wont end up shorting out and looking like Choppers. I notice that even Mac was thinking that FM would soon offer a fix (see Post#10). This is not the first FM battery carrier that I have had problems with. Previously I had a 12AA to 3D battery carrier that was bad from day one and FM eventually replaced it. I say eventually because by the time i noticed that the battery carrier was not working the run had ended and i had to wait for the next 12AA to 3D battery carrier run before FM replaced it - BUT IT WAS REPLACED and all I could think of was what a nice guy FM is to offer this world class service! So that is why I am a little bit disappointed. I wonder if there shouldnt be a cross post to this thread as a warning to all the loyal customers who purchased V2 Elle's before FM edited/corrected his sell thread? I say this only because before I shipped my brass positive cap to MAC for his "Fix" you could see the impression from the ridge around the MAG switch quite clearly because at least in my V2 Elle I notice that the tail cap/spring feels like it is really pushing hard on the battery carrier.


I have had some issues with the design of the Ellie-II, and I am not exactly sure what caused this instance, Chopper.

I have expressed my findings previously in PM's to FiveMega, but I am now concerned about this as a safety issue that your instance raises. I am making this post with absolutely no intention to impugn or demean Fivemega's reputation/quality. FiveMega remains my favorite modder.

My major issues were the inside ridge that blocks using a KIU/Mag D switch (above switch hole), and the top battery holder plate makes contact with narrow body (below switch hole).

FM told me that this Ellie was designed primarily to work with the AW Soft-Starting multi-level switch, which uses the ridge, and isolates the battery holder top. However, AW's switch is only rated to work with 150W which is easy to exceed with overdriving 90-100W bulbs--so many would need to use KIU setup with 4s or higher Li-Ion setups.

In addition, FM's sales thread says the Ellie-II will "accomodate this type (AW) switch or stock M*g "D" switch." (which is a part of the KIU assembly that you used, Choppers). To use the KIU/stock switch you have to Dremel grind out the inside ridge (just above the switch hole).

With this design, the FM Ellie-2 battery holder top contact plate (& Modamag's quad-wide 18650 as well) is too wide. If you slide an empty quad-18650 battery holder inside of an empty Ellie-II, you will see that the cap makes metal on metal contact with the narrow neck of the body, below the switch area. This will result in a dead short of the positive battery pack against the negative grounded body. I do not regard the HA inside coating as an adequate insulator for this high voltge pack.

Looking at your pictures, Chopper, I cannot rule out the possibility that you may have had a dead short created from this scenario. I do not believe a switch overheating would give such a damage pattern on the top of battery holder as you show. Obviously if the inside plastic of the switch is all melted, it may be from that. Look inside of the body to see if it appears the HA coating shows arc electrical damage to verify the cause. If there was an arc/dead-short, it may also have heated and melted the bottom of the Mag switch.

The safest resolution which would be to get a thin Delrin or Nylon washer that would insulate the top battery contact plate from the inside narrow body area. After brought to his attention, I feel FM should have sent a cheap, thin insulator washer out to everyone purchasing the Ellie, or redesigned the cap with the same kind of insulating plastic layer he provided in his 3x17670 M-6 Battery holder here. The voltage and current output of 4x18650 Li-Ion (especially Emoli/Sony-V) is no joke. Then there are the 8s & 12s holders with body extensions that could be downright dangerous.

Now in FM's defense, should the buyer/user have an awareness of these kind of issues before purchasing? Yes. Do they all? No. This is the first FM product (of which I have bought many--and praise his quality routinely) that I have had this safety concern, and people should be aware of it and careful.

The other non-safety item in the Ellie-II sales thread which is not correct is where he says the Ellie-2 "Can accept all FM3 heads, 3.5" and even M*g "D" head." In fact, none of the 6 x FM3H-2 heads I have will fit the threads of the Ellie-II. All other FM3 & 3.5" heads will fit the Ellie-2. Interestingly, my FM3H-2 heads fit the original Elephant threads. There is no easy way to resolve this, so I have accepted it, but sales thread should be corrected.
 

monkeyboy

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Mac's solution is definitely a lot better than backing the switch out. For those of us that don't have access to a lathe and want to do it themselves, reducing the diameter of the brass nut is fairly straightforward. All you need is a powerful drill and some coarse sandpaper. I used a 550W drill and 60 grade sandpaper.

-Clamp the brass nut tightly in the drill. The raised nipple is just long enough for a drill to clamp onto.

-Get someone to hold a strip of sandpaper on a table and sand away with the drill. Keep moving the drill so that you're not using the same spot of sandpaper.

It only took me about 10 mins to reduce the diameter to the right size but it would take a lot longer with a weak cordless drill. I was quite pleased with the results although the brass nut is no longer perfectly round.
 

choppers

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I sent my two ELE brass caps to Mac for his recommended fix. I have two ELE II's that I am running with the KIU Switch. One with the Osram 64623 Lamp with 4 Emoli's and have had no issues with that one. I still sent both caps to Mac to make smaller in diameter. I am thankful and appreciative to him for offering help correct the issue.
 

LuxLuthor

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Wanted to give a HUGE SHOUTOUT of THANKS to MAC who fixed all 4 of my Ellie FM-II caps, and all 3 of my Modamag caps. Plus he put nice cross hatch grips on the side like they had before he reduced their diameter. Now I can finally safely use my Ellie-II. :thumbsup:

Thanks again, Mac !!!
 

MorpheusT1

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He is a great guy :twothumbs



But...
I am amazed that FM havent chimed in here...
He is the one who should have offered to do this.


Benny
 
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