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Thread: HID for Surefire M6

  1. #1
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    Default HID for Surefire M6

    A HID that will fit the Surefire M6, is there such a thing out there or is it possible to build?

    I have seen some smaller 10w HID custombuild Mags here on CPF and they look extremly nice. But since I love my M6´s I would really like to something similar in that shape..

  2. #2

    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Once, i saw a picture... it looked like it was a SURFIRE picture, NOT a photoshop.... of an M6 with some type of HID bulb in it.

    I THINK, i am not sure... but i THINK, at one point Surefire was testing something like that.

    Some one else might be able to post the pic.
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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    I hope in the near future we will be looking at an HID version of the M6 on Surefire's website.

    I am not impressed with the quality and color spectrum of the small amount of handheld sized HID's that are currently on the market.
    ampdude

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    I don't think we will see the M6 with HID, because of the disadvantages of HID. Slow start for instance.

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    I think this is pretty unlikely since Surefire have already planned to release similar sized HID lights. The Arc-1 and Arc-2 HID are in the 2008 surefire catalog but aren't expected until sometime next year. The Arc-1 is only a little larger than the M6.

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Wow, I just looked these up. I noticed one uses 12 CR123a's and the other uses 16! Maybe it's about time Surefire decided to power their bigger lights with something else besides those little CR123a's?
    ampdude

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    Wow, I just looked these up. I noticed one uses 12 CR123a's and the other uses 16! Maybe it's about time Surefire decided to power their bigger lights with something else besides those little CR123a's?

    I'm waiting for the 48 CR123 version to come out but with no recharge option. That'd be swell.

    Yes, I fully agree that Surefire needs to explore a different power option for there HID lights. There is no question that it works, it's just that not many would consider it ideal. It kind of reminds me of this design logic....



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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot36 View Post
    What the heck? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot36 View Post
    Yes, I fully agree that Surefire needs to explore a different power option for there HID lights. There is no question that it works, it's just that not many would consider it ideal. It kind of reminds me of this design logic...
    This is exactly why I am turned off by Surefires, all (with the exception of the Beast) of their rechargeable models are Ni-Cd.
    Last edited by dudemar; 09-29-2008 at 11:19 PM.

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot36 View Post
    I'm waiting for the 48 CR123 version to come out but with no recharge option. That'd be swell.

    Yes, I fully agree that Surefire needs to explore a different power option for there HID lights. There is no question that it works, it's just that not many would consider it ideal.[/IMG]
    I've seen HID's that run off of four CR123A's. And ones that run off of two 18650 lithium ion batteries. To me something like that would be ideal. Something that can take both rechargeable lithium ion and primaries for those times when you need extended run time.
    ampdude

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    I've seen HID's that run off of four CR123A's. And ones that run off of two 18650 lithium ion batteries. To me something like that would be ideal. Something that can take both rechargeable lithium ion and primaries for those times when you need extended run time.

    That would be a great power option, although I wouldn't expect SF to use rechargeable li-ion's in their lights...at least until the the chemistry is outdated. CPFer mdocod (Eric) already has that great 18650 pack for the M6 but unfortunately there isn't room for anything else inside that light in stock configuration. I'm not sure how much space would be required for a 14W Solarc but an extension like the ones FM used to offer might allow the room necessary for a mdocod pack and ballast. Obviously we're talking customs but it seems that could be a much more likely possibility than a compact, rechargeable, reasonably priced, Surefire HID.

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    I would think it would make sense for Surefire to introduce a new lithium primary to power their new larger HID lights. Perhaps something slightly longer than the CR123A (just to prevent CR123A use in lights designed for the new battery) and 20-25mm diameter. Something that would basically pack the watt hours of two or three CR123A's into one cell.
    ampdude

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    I would think it would make sense for Surefire to introduce a new lithium primary to power their new larger HID lights. Perhaps something slightly longer than the CR123A (just to prevent CR123A use in lights designed for the new battery) and 20-25mm diameter. Something that would basically pack the watt hours of two or three CR123A's into one cell.
    I don't think it makes sense to do this. Make a new form factor Lithium primary cell for a light that is going to sell in very low quantities? And make sure it isn't compatible with existing 123 technology so that you're further screwed when you can't get these "special" cells?

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by CM View Post
    I don't think it makes sense to do this. Make a new form factor Lithium primary cell for a light that is going to sell in very low quantities? And make sure it isn't compatible with existing 123 technology so that you're further screwed when you can't get these "special" cells?

    I tend you agree with you CM. It's seems that Surefire is really a bit stuck when it comes to there higher output or longer run-time lights. I really think they should continue to offer the primary format but also design them to also run on a common rechargeable format. I think they made it half way there with the Beast II, but the charger case isn't friendly and the battery is a proprietary format which I don't care for. I guess that shouldn't come as a surprise since I'm in the flashlight hobby. My opinion is that we'll never see common rechargeables from Surefire for whatever reason.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Why would they quit making them?
    1. They still make the B90 after all these years.
    2. They still make the 10X body battery.

    As far as impracticality goes, in my opinion sliding out three or four old batteries and sliding in 3 or 4 new ones is far more practical in the field than removing a battery carrier and replacing 16-24 little batteries or having to purchase multiple expensive, fragile battery carriers and take them along with you.
    Last edited by ampdude; 10-06-2008 at 08:09 AM.
    ampdude

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    Smile Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Well, about 6 years ago someone here met PK's boss on the street on his weaponlight pimped bicycle...Supposedly Surefire made a prototype of an HID retrofit for the M6, its about a year now and no word has yet to come of it.

    Seeing that Mac's 1D MagHIDs have worked so well, I'm sure the ballast from a magHID will fit in the body tube of the M6, and that one could downgrade from an MB20 6 cell battery holder to a MB10 3 cell battery holder and operate under the same congiguration as the 3x16340 holders.

    Granted its not impossible to do, but I'm not sure whether the overall gain in performance would be greater or lesser than the stock configuration using incandescent lamps
    Last edited by Illum; 10-08-2008 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Illum_the_nation View Post
    Granted its not impossible to do, but I'm not sure whether the overall gain in performance would be greater or lesser than the stock configuration using incandescent lamps
    Would still be nice to see though, it's a step in the M6 HID direction.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    Quote Originally Posted by dudemar View Post
    Would still be nice to see though, it's a step in the M6 HID direction.

    At 8.4" I think the ARC1 is going to be very close to a "M6 HID."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    I don't see a picture of the ARC-1 in the Surefire catalog, but it shows the ARC-2. It looks like the body will have four tubes holding 4 batteries per tube.

    I don't see any knurling on the body which makes me wonder why not. I'll wait and see what the finished product looks like though before making a judgment on that. I think I'll prefer the 12 battery version myself, especially if it's rechargeable friendly..
    ampdude

  19. #19
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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    There are some nice diagrams on page 77 of the Illumination tools catalog. It shows the relative sizes of the M6 ARC-1 and ARC-2. I'm hoping that the Arc-1 can run on 8 x 17500 and the Arc-2 on 8 x 17670 but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

    EDIT: Here's a screenshot:

    Last edited by monkeyboy; 10-08-2008 at 05:45 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    I've been watching this thread with great interest, hoping to find out that a drop in module is available for the M6. Would be a great way to get lots of light for a long(er) time, with some tradeoffs.

    Seeing the Arc series (in the 2008 catalog downloadable from Surefire's website) and here in this thread, it is obvious that Surefire will not be making a conversion for the M6 host.

    With the Arc series, I wonder what Surefire is trying to accomplish? In particular, what kind of magic are they using to get lots of light QUICKLY? Sure, HID's make huge amounts of light efficiently, but only after they've had a chance to get going. I don't see this technology being in step with thier mantra of using their lights as a defensive tool.

    I also believe, based upon the design of the battery tubes, that Surefire has gotten wise to the modding (is it safe to call it an industry?) coming up with alternative power schemes. If this is indeed true, I give them a .
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: HID for Surefire M6

    [quote=monkeyboy;2653987]I'm hoping that the Arc-1 can run on 8 x 17500 and the Arc-2 on 8 x 17670 but I guess we'll have to wait and see./quote]


    I'd hate to be the first guy to try that!




    Flipside
    Seeing the Arc series (in the 2008 catalog downloadable from Surefire's website) and here in this thread, it is obvious that Surefire will not be making a conversion for the M6 host.

    With the Arc series, I wonder what Surefire is trying to accomplish? In particular, what kind of magic are they using to get lots of light QUICKLY? Sure, HID's make huge amounts of light efficiently, but only after they've had a chance to get going. I don't see this technology being in step with thier mantra of using their lights as a defensive tool.



    I don't think there was ever any speculation that SF was going to offer a HID M6, they were just asking if it could be done.


    Not every light that SF makes is going to have the same application, some are huge, some are very small, some are very bright, others have limited output but much longer run-time, they all vary in efficiency, others turn on a little bit slower but get really bright. They make both the Hell Fighter and the Titan, neither of which can really be considered "defensive" lights. I don't believe that SF has a specific mantra other than building really high quality production lights.

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