"2009" CandlePower Knife ??????

[george tichbourne]

Any thoughts on the tear-drop shaped handle I mentioned in an earlier post?

Hi Monocrom,
We're busier then we had anticipated, that's a good thing but it kinda snuck up on us.

A tear-drop handle is something that will certainly be something to look at, it sounds like it would be very attractive.

Do you have a drawing you'd like to share ?

Cheers, Carol

[f22shift]

Robocop was correct a few posts back when he indicated that George & I were going to be busy We have just completed a corporate holiday gifting order consisting of over 50 kitchen knives and the quality control person from what I understand is a bit of a pain I won't elaborate as to the identity of this nuisance but one day I expect to find a life size picture of me in the shop with a dart board attached to it



Cheers, Carol

that's silly. custom made (hand) will always have variations/characteristics. even mass produced jeans label it.

[george tichbourne]

that's silly. custom made (hand) will always have variations/characteristics. even mass produced jeans label it.

We know that and you seem to know that but you would be very surprised at the number of people in this world that expect zero defect on everything they touch. So, we do the best we can and it usually costs us money.

Cheers, Carol

[Monocrom]

A tear-drop handle is something that will certainly be something to look at, it sounds like it would be very attractive.

Do you have a drawing you'd like to share ?

Cheers, Carol

Sorry Carol, my Artistic abilities are limited to a creative imagination that turns scenes & images seamlessly into written words in the form of fictional stories. I can create images in a Reader's mind.... but cannot create direct images for a person's eyes.

The idea was for a handle somewhat similar, but certainly not a direct copy of, Fred Perrin's LaGriffe. With George's personal touch as to the blade shape, length, and final dimensions & contours of the tear-dropped shaped handle. More of a basic idea for a handle.

[maddog]

to be honest. i really don't see this ever happing. the reason is to get 40+ people to commit to buy a $500 knife ... not going to happen. IMHO but CPF could prove me wrong.

[maddog]

Ok I will be brutally honest and say no person I know (Military, Officer or civilian) actually carries a 500 dollar folder. I do know people who have knives in this price range however they never actually use them but rather display or baby them.

well this is a very broad statement. i think it depends on what type of knife your taking about? owners of Busse, Strider, Extrema Ratio even Rob Simonich Knives normally use them and if i saw anyone that had these in a case and never used them ... i would laugh and so would their makers. i myself use my $500+ folder everyday for work and use it to the max! and i do this because i got tired of buying a new knife every time some cheap knife broke. well now you know someone who uses their $500+ knife (and there are others & if you would like to know them too .. i can direct you to some other sites. PM me if your interested). but i do have some other knives like those made by Tom Anderson that i would never use for work and only carry them when i'm in a suit ... lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex_JNTqgKL8 ... some strider action! after that demo i'm sure you won't be afraid to use your expensive knife ever again ... you get what you pay for.

[Robocop]

Maddog I have no doubt their are those out there who do use such knives and I have a best friend who is a big fan of very costly blades and beats the crap out of them daily. I agree with you on many points and I know bladeforum and others have plenty who would also agree however.....

I have been an officer for over 11 years in a dept. of over 900 patrolmen, swat members, detectives, K9, and any other division you can imagine. I have rode with other departments such as Ca, TX, FL, Vegas, and a few others and at no time did I ever see any officer with anything even close to a 500 dollar folder.

Most I have known usually start out with expensive stuff and usually lose it chasing some dirt bag (knives, watches, sun glasses,...etc Over a very short time officers usually carry what works however find cheaper products that work well enough just in case they get lost or destroyed.

No doubt if myself or others could afford exotic, better made knives yes we would surely do so but honestly in the real world of street patrol I have not seen anything like that. The maker here is asking for suggestions for a target market and if this market was a group of collectors or anyone else who appreciated better knives then sure 500 dollars would be just fine. The true market is to be everyday users such as many here and also police and military. It does not take a genius to see that a 500 dollar product for that crowd would quickly lose momentum and die thus proving to be a loss for the designer.

I will one day have my Large Sebenza however it will be after I retire and I will carry it daily as a gift to myself.

[Hitthespot]

We had a fellow recently that saw an add in a magazine and wanted to buy a Moose hunter to go hunting with but was not certain about the edge holding. I sort of convinced him the 440C would be just fine.

He took that knife out moose hunting, got a medium sized moose, about 800 lb. dressed, skinned and quartered the thing and called me as soon as he got back. He said that the knife performed perfectly and in fact it seemed to get sharper as he went along and when it was finished he could still shave with it.

Fot those of you who have never seen a moose close up they are about the size of a quarter horse.

George
PS he ordered another knife

Absolutely.

1st) 440C is a great Steel for knife blades if you can harden and stress relieve the steel correctly. Sounds like you've got it Mr. Tichbourne.

2nd) I've been following this thread hoping it will swing in a direction I would prefer like, a small locking folder with a 2.5"-(2.75" max) blade of 440C, and maybe White Micarta handle stock with sort of the same design as last year. That doesn't sound like anything too expensive.

That's my two cents, if it's worth that much.

Anyway I'm following this thread. We'll see what developes.

Bill

[george tichbourne]

Greetings All

Sorry George & I have been absent for so long. Over the holidays we were off Christmas Day and New Years Day and that's it.

We are now back into the swing of things again and ready to pick this up if any of you are ready to move forward.

The holiday season is over, your election is over, everyone is or should be back to a regular routine again as we are.

Let's get serious about settling on a design, pricing, and getting started on this years project.

Points of Note: 1) Folders will be over $4-500/ea
2) we can bring in a knife like Robocop suggested at a
decent price range - i.e.blade where you wrap your
own handle/
3) we can run with a couple patterns to satisfy a larger
group
4) as like last year - small deposits would be required
we take credit card - Visa or M/C no paypal

Look forward to hearing from you,

Cheers, Carol & George

[KDOG3]

Dang. I saw the thread title and got all excited. But its too rich for my blood. I'm a po' boy... guess I'll have to stick with BMs'... Good luck with this project though....

[Chrontius]

Gentlemen I think we should establish very quickly here where the price level is going to start.

Our main stream folders start at $500 and go up. This is with 440C blade, titanium chasis, bolsters can be either 416S/S or titanium ~ the S/S being heavier the titanium being lighter. As an example both options change the pricing as would using Damascus for the bolster.

Can't afford it. No way, no how, no lottery win. I carry a $40 Strider and can't justify bumping that by more than 10x.

Could almost afford the 2008 CPF knife, but the money didn't come in time. C'est la vie... but I'd be up for a fairly similar knife this year.

[Hawkeye5]

I don't have a stake in this discussion, and as a new member, perhaps I should not stick my nose into the conversation regarding customs and price. However, as a daily user of straight razors, I've some exposure to custom makers.

Custom is not for everyone. Custom items are made by artisans one at a time, therefore custom items are expensive, even on a group buy. I'm on a list for a razor that Bill Ellis is making for twenty members on another forum. The price will be in excess of $500 each. Will I use it? Darn right. I have razors in my rotation that cost $40 up to $500 currently. Makers such as L. R. Harner, Joe Chandler, Robert Williams, and Tim Zowada are in the same general price range, if not a bit higher, than Ellis. Mastro Livi, from Italy, custom razors sell for $1200 or more. That is out of my range, but he sells a bunch of custom razors.

Ask yourself if you are requesting a custom maker to provide his product at a production knife price. George seems to be willing to make things work for the majority. Someone needs to thank him.

[Chrontius]

I don't have a stake in this discussion, and as a new member, perhaps I should not stick my nose into the conversation regarding customs and price. However, as a daily user of straight razors, I've some exposure to custom makers.

Custom is not for everyone. Custom items are made by artisans one at a time, therefore custom items are expensive, even on a group buy. I'm on a list for a razor that Bill Ellis is making for twenty members on another forum. The price will be in excess of $500 each. Will I use it? Darn right. I have razors in my rotation that cost $40 up to $500 currently. Makers such as L. R. Harner, Joe Chandler, Robert Williams, and Tim Zowada are in the same general price range, if not a bit higher, than Ellis. Mastro Livi, from Italy, custom razors sell for $1200 or more. That is out of my range, but he sells a bunch of custom razors.

Ask yourself if you are requesting a custom maker to provide his product at a production knife price. George seems to be willing to make things work for the majority. Someone needs to thank him.

I think there's no insult, nor was any meant. I also think that if the majority who want to participate can't afford a folder this year (recession and all) that maybe a less-expensive fixed blade or neck knife would be more popular. Otherwise, if we keep silent, it just seems like nobody cares about the 2009 forum knife and last year was a fluke.

As an aside, Hawkeye, I shave with a $0.50 Gilette Fatboy, carry a $40 Strider, and wear $40 oakleys. I drink clearance-shelf beer, carry a $10 Timbuktu messenger bag, and only paid $40 for the most expensive of my Surefires. (On second thought, not true - my Aviator set me back $70) My car was bought from someone moving to Germany in three days who lost his buyer. Even when I was employed, I was broke and well under the poverty line. Now, I am an unemployed college student. I have whatever I have left from Christmas to spend on a CPF knife, which I expected I could afford based on last year's price.

The only way I can afford to have nice things is to bargain shop and never pay retail.

[Unforgiven]

I would still like to see a sturdy fixed blade.

[Hawkeye5]

Chrontius, we are at different places. You are in college, I'm nearing retirement.
Fatboys are good razors, I used one in my youth. I hope you are using some decent blades and something other than canned goo. If you are using drug store DE blades I'll be happy to send a small sample of some good ones I still have and give you a website where good quality blades can be found. Unfortunately there are none still made in the US. Send me a PM with your address and I mail some blades.

[Chrontius]

Chrontius, we are at different places. You are in college, I'm nearing retirement.
Fatboys are good razors, I used one in my youth. I hope you are using some decent blades and something other than canned goo. If you are using drug store DE blades I'll be happy to send a small sample of some good ones I still have and give you a website where good quality blades can be found. Unfortunately there are none still made in the US. Send me a PM with your address and I mail some blades.

Tom's of Maine organic mint shave cream, cheap Tweezerman badger shave brush, and Derby Extra blades. If you know of anything better, I'll give them a go. As long as they're cheap.

As an aside, if anyone's looking to sell their 2008 forum knife to pay for the 2009 model, I may be interested.

[Cuso]

OK ,I have been watching this from the sidelines and want to comment on what I think is the loss of interest in the 2009 CPF blade by Mr. Tichbourne. First of all I am no blade expert, but I just don't see myself spending that amount of money on one of the blade styles offered by Mr. Tichbourne. Not questioning his quality work and craftsmanship, its just that his traditional blade styles are not my cup of tea. Im sure there's a lot of traditional (antique??) blade style fans in here that love George's work, and will pay the sum for a folder, but I bet most of the crowd here is waiting for something "tactical" looking and wrapped in orange G10 ( or blue), than the fine mother of pearl and stag bone George is used to work with..or am I wrong?? Sorry to say we will have to look elsewhere. Mr. Tichbourne himself has stated that he is fairly new to the folder scene and his traditional way of making knifes translates into his current offerings. I'm sure he will be more than pleased to accommodate the crowd to whatever we choose, but unless a prototype is made that sparks the interest of the silent lookers, the 2009 CPF blade by Mr. Tichbourne will remain vapor until then. I dropped out of the 2008 blade list when I saw the final design and materials, and I will dare to say most of the guys in the list bought it for the collectible factor, the CPF stamp and the numbering.
I would like to thank The Tichbournes for all the time and patience they have invested in this project, and in the 2008 project, even though I did not obtain one. Again, you sir make high quality knifes and your craftsmanship is second to none, but your particular blade styles, no offense, just does not rock my boat. To each his own right? Hope nobody gets offended by my post, and the 2009 CPF blade proves me wrong and sells out quickly , but this is just my 2 cents....

[JosephK]

I would still like to see a sturdy fixed blade.

I'm with you on that one. I use and abuse my 2008 knife, fixed blade is where it's at.

If we end up going that route, I'm in for 1.

[Mdinana]

I'm with you on that one. I use and abuse my 2008 knife, fixed blade is where it's at.

If we end up going that route, I'm in for 1.

Really? I found the knife just not "for me" in the use/abuse deparment. It's still a shelf queen (and quite the looker too, I might add!).

If Mr. Tichbourne's proposed 2009 offering was significantly different from last year, I'd be interested. But the one CAD we saw looked mighty similar, I'm not a fan of neck knifes, and while I could afford a $500 folding knife (after July), I'm not going to drop that kind of money. So for now, I'm one of the probably numerous CPF'ers that's sitting here on the sidelines waiting for a verdict on final, if any, design proposals.

[Robocop]

Be it fixed blade folder or even a small kneck knife I can understand the costs involved as it is a custom knife made by hand. I can also see where a smaller shop can not offer larger production runs without an assembly line style of production.

It is what it is and the maker has been up front stating his costs and I agree that many these days can not afford certain items. I would love to have a custom product from many of our members and dealers (both lights and knives) however as an average working person I am forced to choose wisely where and how I spend my cash.

Basically if I had it to use I would gladly purchase a high end folder or fixed blade from the maker. I am very impressed with Mr. Tichbourne and his including us in his designs and from what I have read his customers are very satisfied with his products. I believe he is wisely attempting to determine if a new product for this year will be worth his efforts to produce and from the responses gathered here it does not look as if it would be worth it for him at this time. (at least if it were sold on CPF)

Personally I believe the solution is to find something most of us would be willing to purchase at a certain cost while keeping it a quality enough of an item to put his name on it. For a true custom knife this may not be an option again due to labor and costs of parts. My suggestion of a small kneck knife again was an attempt to offer something that could be of good enough quality to allow the maker to proudly place his name on it while keeping costs at a lower point.

Basically we already know that a folder bearing the Tichbourne name will be at least 4 to 500 dollars. If enough are willing to pay then great however thus far it seems as if many are not willing to do so at this time. A fixed blade may be cheaper however a larger one will again be fairly expensive. If it is simply costs many are concerned with then a smaller kneck knife with a basic user wrapped handle is the cheapest option available or so it would appear.

So for now what we should be attempting to agree upon is what style of knife will sale the best right now. Many want a folder however knowing the clearly stated price point how many are willing to purchase? Will it be enough to justify a custom run and if not then how many will actually purchase a smaller kneck knife?

Not trying to be rude here at all however based on the minimum activity and posts with this project if I were a maker I would be a little nervous about putting my time and costs into something that showed moderate interests. I hope it works out for the best however I must be up front also in saying I am not able to purchase much of anything for 500 dollars right now. If it were a necessity or something I just had to have then I may do so however for a custom knife it would not be a priority. I kind of get the impression that it may be a better sale on a custom knife forum where it would reach a larger specialized audience.

[Monocrom]

Many CPFers have accounts on BladeForums as well. A folder could still be possible. However, George would need to get solid commitments (and C.C. numbers) up front. Also, forget about a run of 40. Perhaps a run of about 10 would be more realistic.

Few CPFers would end up with an '09 CPF knife. But such a knife would still be out there, and 2009 could still be counted as a success for George on CPF.

With the neck knife idea, more would be made. Giving more CPFers a chance to enjoy George's work. And once again, there would be a run of '09 CPF knives.

Both are viable. I hope George posts soon as to any decisions having been reached on his end.

[Cuso]

Did you guys see the EDC forums knife project??? They kept the price realistic , and the little thing looks awesome in orange G10. Maybe this is the route the CPF 2009 should take, does not have to be this design but gives you an idea...

http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=25541.0

[Monocrom]

Did you guys see the EDC forums knife project??? They kept the price realistic , and the little thing looks awesome in orange G10. Maybe this is the route the CPF 2009 should take, does not have to be this design but gives you an idea...

http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=25541.0

What do you mean by "realistic?"

A folding knife from a skilled BladeSmith will typically run about $400 at the low end of the price scale.

[Cuso]

What do you mean by "realistic?"

A folding knife from a skilled BladeSmith will typically run about $400 at the low end of the price scale.

I know , but given we are nowhere near the 40 interest list Tichbourne needs to make this happen, maybe we should get REAL and try for something less exotic...If this is going to be a CPF branded item we should go for quantity for everyone to enjoy not a uber exotic knife with the CPF logo that just a handfull of people are going to own. This should be left for a knife specific forum not a flashlight forum.

[Monocrom]

This should be left for a knife specific forum not a flashlight forum.

Normally, I would agree. But once again, CPF has a ton of members who also have accounts on BladeForums.

[Cuso]

Normally, I would agree. But once again, CPF has a ton of members who also have accounts on BladeForums.

Indeed , most of us have , me included. What I mean is that we are proposing a very high caliber knife to the wrong crowd, yes most of us are knife enthusiast too willing to shell out the cash , but some are not... $500 for a CPF branded Mcgizmo, sure ?? $500 for a CPF branded knife?? . See what I mean ? Wrong crowd...

[george tichbourne]

Gentlemen,
George and I have left this thread alone for a while to see which direction it would take.

Robocop I feel is fairly accurate in his post, as is Monocrom, Cusco custom knives of high quality take time and cost money. Our prices are REALISTIC and we have been clear right from the start that a 2009 project would reflect realistic costs unlike last year where the price was indeed lower than it should have been.

Any of you who have followed the thread should have noted by now that I have offered a high end folder or fixed blade and a lesser expensive neck knife (no less in quality). I felt that by offering two seperate styles for 2009 it would cover off many members choices. However, there just has not been the interest there was last year.

As was stated by one of the members we are not about to put our name on something of poor quality just to run a massive order, we have worked long and hard to build a solid reputation of quality and good workmanship, something we are not about to risk just to get a possible order.

One thought of mine that I have shared privately with a few members is that it is conceivable to me that seeing as last year was the first CPF knife and there were pictures and narratives along the way and the knife something new to everyone as were we that it was an interesting and fun project for all involved. OK, those involved have been there, done that and now it's not really all that interesting because they now have a pretty good idea how knives, well fixed blades without guards/bolsters are made that it's not really of that much interest. Everyone is ready for something "new".

Of course I could be mistaken but that is the impression that I get.

Some of you have come directly to us and had knives made to your specifications and I believe have been very happy with the end result.

Personally I don't know what else we can do here, we have offered what I feel is something for everyone, we could even open it further and offer a neck knife with helpful suggestions from Robocop, a nice little fixed blade for others who still prefer that style and a folder that yes will run around $500. Quite frankly I would be more than willing to ride herd on three projects simultaneously if you folks are interested. There would be something for everyones price range, and purpose. You cannot say that we have not tried to offer a variety of style and price. Each of good quality, and each to suit the customers preferred choice.

To this end, unless we get a resounding YES from a number of members this is the last you will hear of a 2009 project from us. I'm sorry I am not going to plead with you for an order, you know what we can offer, you have worked with us before you know we follow through and you do in fact get what you order so I don't know what else to tell you.

Nothing was ever written in stone that George was or is "The" CPF official knifemaker. If you can find something somewhere that suits your needs and everyone is happy with it ~ go for it. George and I had a blast last year. We became acquainted with a number of great people and enjoyed our time with all of you immensely.

Any of you who have something you want made or would like to purchase you know where to find us. Our door is always open and we'd enjoy working with you again.

Take care and God Bless, Carol & George Tichbourne

[george tichbourne]

Cusco, one last thing before I go ~ there was a large post of yours that I had missed ~ appreciate your comment about George's quality, "Thankyou"

I would like to point out to you that last years knife was designed by a fellow forum member, the choice of handle material was a group choice that it had to match the colour of the CPF logo.

As to George's folders - many sell in the $1200-$1500 range and are classed as Men's Jewellery. Tacticals and heavy duty are now part of his line up with the G10 scales, you haven't seen them because they are coming on stream now and are for serious heavy duty situations.

Carol Tichbourne

[Cuso]

Carol,

Yes, your prices are in-line with the cost , craftsmanship and quality of skilled bladework, there's no question about it and you have been mopre than clear. What I meant with saying "realistic" is that a blade in that price range and the quantities that you require to make it happen are not in-line with the interest shown so far. No one is suggesting you to put your name on a low-budget/quality knife, my suggestion above was to contribute to the pool of ideas, and try to make this a reality. Again NO question about value, quality and craftsmanship, I know how much a quality folder can go up for.

Last years process was indeed a fun thing to read, and a learning experience, we thank you for letting us inside the shop with all the pictures and narrations. It was more than awesome, and a joy, THANK YOU.

BTW: Who's Cusco??

[smokelaw1]

Carol,

If this goes forward or not, I want to add my voice that I agree that your prices are well withing reason for custom knives, and last year was a complete steal. I love my 08 knife, and it has gotten some nice use (as I believe blades should). Look forward to seeing some of George's heavy use folder, as I am in the market for one.

SL1