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Thread: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

  1. #1
    Flashaholic Brlux's Avatar
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    Default Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    I was shopping for Energizer Lithium AA cells at target the other day and noticed that they have some new offerings. I could not find much information on them here at CPF or on the web so I got some to test.



    The Energizer Ultimate seem to be the new Premium Lithium cells and are branded with a claim of lasting 8X longer than the Energizer MAX Alkaline cells in a digital camera? I guess this is a step up from the last version of the Lithium AA which was touted as 7X. Whether this is a marketing scheme, they actually managed to cram in more power, or the MAX Alkaline cells decreased in power has yet to be determined. The Ultimate cells had an expiration date of 2023, so these must be rated for a 15 year shelf life. (edit shelf life)

    The other new player is a lower priced Lithium cell called the Energizer Advanced which claims to last 4X longer than the Energizer MAX Alkaline cell in a digital camera. They have the same temperature ratings as the Ultimate cells -40 to +140 deg F. The Advanced cells had an expiration date of 2018, So these must be rated for a 10 year shelf life. (Edited because I can't subtract)

    The Ultimate cells were $9 something per 4 pack of AA and the Advanced were $6 something per 4 pack of AA. I wanted to see how they compared because I use Lithiumís in a Canon A570is digital camera that I fly on a weather balloon that can reach 100k feet which is very near space and temperatures can get below -40F so the temperature rating was important to me. Here is a picture from my last flight.


    I ran the 8X Ultimate and the 4X Advanced through my CBA-II with a .5A constant discharge and the results are closer than I was expecting.


    Red = Ultimate Lithium 8X cell, Black = Advanced Lithium 4X cell

    At roughly 2/3 the price of the Ultimate cells the Advanced look to be a good option for some situations. I will be flying them on my next balloon flight in a few weeks.

    I hope this information is useful to someone.
    Last edited by Brlux; 10-19-2008 at 04:39 PM.
    It takes a really inteligent person to know how to spell a word more than one way.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Oddjob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Thanks for the info. The advanced are 2/3 the price but do not look to give 2/3 the performance. Nice pic BTW.
    I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Nice pic.

    What do you up there?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by Brlux View Post
    I was shopping for Energizer Lithium AA cells at target the other day and noticed that they have some new offerings. I could not find much information on them here at CPF
    4sevens gave Chevrofreak some but we have not yet seen the results.

    The Energizer Ultimate seem to be the new Premium Lithium cells and are branded with a claim of lasting 8X longer than the Energizer MAX Alkaline cells in a digital camera? I guess this is a step up from the last version of the Lithium AA which was touted as 7X. Whether this is a marketing scheme, they actually managed to cram in more power, or the MAX Alkaline cells decreased in power has yet to be determined.
    If you read carefully, the original Lithium packaging states: "lasts up to 7x longer ... vs leading ordinary alkaline".

    The new Lithium reads" "lasts up to 8x longer ... vs Energizer max".

    Energizer max is not the leading ordinary alkaline.

    It's been known to underperform vs other alkaline batteries:

    http://lights.chevrofreak.com/runtimes/AA%20cells.png

    I ran the 8X Ultimate and the 4X Advanced through my CBA-II with a .5A constant discharge and the results are closer than I was expecting.


    Red = Ultimate Lithium 8X cell, Black = Advanced Lithium 4X cell

    At roughly 2/3 the price of the Ultimate cells the Advanced look to be a good option for some situations. I will be flying them on my next balloon flight in a few weeks.

    I hope this information is useful to someone.
    Yes, the info is very useful. Thanks.
    Last edited by ltiu; 10-19-2008 at 05:54 PM.
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    Flashaholic Brlux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by ltiu View Post
    Your math sucks man! or are you living in 1998?
    The 90's were a sweet era, but the real answer is yes my math sucks as does my spelling.

    Sorry.
    It takes a really inteligent person to know how to spell a word more than one way.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by Brlux View Post
    the Advanced were $6 something per 4 pack of AA.
    Costs around $13 for a pack of 12 AA at Sam's Club.
    Last edited by ltiu; 10-19-2008 at 04:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Give him a break! His math is fine. Didn't you know that time slows down as speed goes up? Some Einstein dude though of this.
    Anyway, cool pic, please share a photo with us of your ultra high flying super fast flying apparatus (can't really use your affectionate term "balloon") !

    And thanks for the battery test, nice to have an alternative.
    10% weaker, but 30% cheaper batteries are a good value in my book.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic Brlux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Here is a website that has pictures from all our flights.

    Here is the camera

    And here is the launch.

    If you live in the South Western US and are into Amateur Radio or have a police scanner you can try checking out our next flight. We have a cross band repeater that goes up on each flight. It is 2m up and 70cm 445.525Mhz down. line of sight form 100K feet is quite far. We also use APRS (GPS data being relayed over amature radio transmision) to track our payloads and get real time flight data (ground speed, altitude, position). It is like the ultimate geo cash where the cash is moving nearly 100 miles and you try to guess where it is going to stop.
    It takes a really inteligent person to know how to spell a word more than one way.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Cool, Thanks!

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    Flashaholic* Kilovolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    About two years ago Energizer started selling lithium primaries here in Italy and from the beginning they were marked 'Ultimate Lithium' . They look like the left ones in Brlux pics. Initially there was a '7x' claim on the packing that recently has disappeared.

    The batteries are marked 'made in USA' . The latest I bought have an expiry date 03-2022.

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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    10% weaker, but 30% cheaper batteries are a good value in my book.
    Hmm, how did you get the 10% number? Just eyeballing the graph, the difference in power (Volt*Ampere*hours) appears like it might be more than 10%.

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    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    To Brlux --


    Thank you for this interesting and informative thread.




    We've had an existing posting on this subject for perhaps
    a month. Maybe someone can provide a Link to that.



    Oh, BTW, i really loved yer' photograph !



    I think i can actually see my house from up there.


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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA


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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Brlux, do you have a graph of the current L91 lithium AA to compare to the new cells?

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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by David_Campen View Post
    Hmm, how did you get the 10% number? Just eyeballing the graph, the difference in power (Volt*Ampere*hours) appears like it might be more than 10%.
    Just that - eyeballing the graph.
    [ugly flashback] Maybe somebody wants to refresh their Calculus skills, probably the areas of two graphs would be useful? [/ugly flashback]

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    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    uhmmm, Calculus . . . .


    Was that the same thing as Algebra ? ? ?



    How can ya' add X's and Y's ?



    Heck, i even have trouble with 3's and 8's.


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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    I did the integration by printing the graph and cutting out and weighing the curves on a scale sensitive to 0.01 gram. I got 1.07 gram for the Ultimate Lithium curve and 0.82 gram for the Advanced Lithium. So according to this the Advanced Lithium delivered 77% as much power as the Ultimate Lithium (0.82/1.07 = 0.77).

  18. #18
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Nice work, David !





    Definitely above and beyond the Call of Duty !


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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by David_Campen View Post
    I did the integration by printing the graph and cutting out and weighing the curves on a scale sensitive to 0.01 gram. I got 1.07 gram for the Ultimate Lithium curve and 0.82 gram for the Advanced Lithium. So according to this the Advanced Lithium delivered 77% as much power as the Ultimate Lithium (0.82/1.07 = 0.77).
    Hey, why didn't I think of that back in calculus class!@#$%?! I could have passed on the first take!
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdgineer View Post
    Brlux, do you have a graph of the current L91 lithium AA to compare to the new cells?
    The 8x Ultimate are the same as current L91 cells. The 4x is, in reality, better than 4x, but Energizer needed to give consumers the idea that there was more differentiation between the 2 products than there is. It's all about marketing.

    That is based on standard ANSI testing, of course, rather than 500mA constant current.

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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by MorePower View Post
    That is based on standard ANSI testing, of course, rather than 500mA constant current.
    So what is standard ANSI testing?
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by ltiu View Post
    So what is standard ANSI testing?
    For AA cells, there are 8 (soon to be 9) ANSI tests. The following PDF lists a subset of the ANSI tests for AAA through 9V cell sizes.

    http://batmon.emporia.edu/BatteryConditions.pdf

    In addition to the 6 listed for AA cells, there is a photoflash test (1A 10 sec/min, 1 hr/day) and a digital camera test (1500mW for 2 sec, 650mW for 28 seconds, run 5 min/hr).

    As you can see, most of these tests are intermittent. This more closely matches the usage patterns of a typical consumer.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Interesting how Energizer has used a twist on Rayovac's "More Power" marketing phrase for the Advanced Lithium cells.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    You keep the ultimate, and give away the advance.

    Ultimate for L1D, Advance for L2D
    Last edited by MichaelW; 10-23-2008 at 10:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by David_Campen View Post
    I did the integration by printing the graph and cutting out and weighing the curves on a scale sensitive to 0.01 gram. I got 1.07 gram for the Ultimate Lithium curve and 0.82 gram for the Advanced Lithium. So according to this the Advanced Lithium delivered 77% as much power as the Ultimate Lithium (0.82/1.07 = 0.77).
    Did you take into account the fact that the voltage scale is starting at 1.0 volts and not 0?

    My estimate would be about an 8 to 10% difference for a device with a 1.0 volt cut off. For devices with a higher voltage cutoff, the difference would be much higher - e.g. for a 1.2V cutoff, I'd estimate a difference of about 25%
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    Flashaholic* Bones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rose View Post
    Interesting how Energizer has used a twist on Rayovac's "More Power" marketing phrase for the Advanced Lithium cells.
    I wonder how a judge would view Energizer's encroachment, especially considering Rayovac has trade marked the phrase 'More Power for Your Money'.

    Energizer must be trying to repeat the success it's enjoyed with the Bunny that they stole from Duracel.

    The following is quoted from an article entited the 'Top 25 Ads We Can't Get out Of Our Heads' published by USA Today in 2007:

    5. Energizer: Energizer Bunny (1989)

    Energizer stole Duracell's drum-beating bunny, put it in motion and never looked back. For this campaign, Energizer can beat its own drum. And it's still going and going and going.
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    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    It could be part of Energizer's game plan against ROV.

    Energizer is suing Rayovac over Rayovac's attempt to bring lithium AA/AAA cells to market in North America (and break the Energizer monopoly).
    Apparently Energizer's patent has expired or something along those lines. The info is buried in a thread here somewhere.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic Brlux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    I imported the graph data into Excel and calculated watt/hours for each battery.

    The Ultimate cell came to 4.257 Wh
    The Advanced cell came to 3.815 Wh

    So the Advanced cell has 89.6% of the Ultimates power down to 1V with a .5A discharge.

    Take this for what it is worth from a guy who couldn't calculate the correct expiration date for the cells.
    It takes a really inteligent person to know how to spell a word more than one way.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    LC7LED - great callsign.... DE WA9TKA

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Energizer Ultimate and Advanced Lithium AA

    Brlux,
    Thanks for the thread and your work. Cool pic too! I have a survival pack with a Fenix TK20 and 22 e2 lithiums (ultimate) in a waterproof case. When I was a Sam's, I was very tempted by the lower priced Advanced 12 pack for $14 (I think) vs. the Ultimate 12 pack for $20 (still a great deal considering most stores sell 4 for $10).

    I am not sure how much better the Ultamates will perform in the TK20, but at least with your graph I know I am getting SOME difference for the extra money.
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