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Thread: Shark Buck

  1. #121
    Flashaholic* LED Zeppelin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselsmoke View Post
    Got my Shark Buck today, thanks Wayne.

    Given the above external pot, once I remove the trim pot, do the three wires on the external pot need to go to particular solder points on the driver ?

    thanks for the help.
    dieselsmoke, hope you can follow this:

    - Locate the three solder pads under the on-board trimpot. Viewing the Shark from the component side with the pads at lower right, you will see that the larger central wiper pad connects to the top soldering hole just to the right. There are two smaller pads under the large pad. The lower right pad connects to the lower right soldering hole, and the lower left pad does not connect to any hole.
    - Connect the pads to the external pot. Viewing the pot with the shaft at top and the leads facing you, connect the large wiper pad (or top right hole) to the center pot lead, the lower right pad (or lower right hole) to the left lead, and the lower left pad to the right lead. I find it just as easy to solder to the pad as to the hole. The wires do not pass any current, so I use very thin flexible wire, 30 ga or so.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Very helpful, thank you LED Zeppelin !

    After testing I find that my 3a shark buck only runs up to < 1a

    I tested it with the original trim pot installed, just wired it up with 24g wire to an MC-E 4p using a 11.1v Li pack which is reading 12.4v. The pack cells are plenty capable to deliver 3a with PCB rated at 6.5a. I also checked the installed resistors and verified they are .10 and .05 ohm, so I think I have the right model shark buck.

    You can see the current range I acheived below using the onboard trim pot at min and max levels. No power was applied to the board prior to being sinked to the copper C using paste and an aluminum bar.

    One thing I did find odd, before I wired anything up I found there to be some electrical path between 3 of the four connectors and the copper C. I'm the farthest thing from an EE, and don't know if this is normal. All leads except the VIN showed electrical path to the copper C, albeit at extremely high resistance.

    What should I check ?





    Last edited by dieselsmoke; 06-23-2009 at 11:30 AM. Reason: clarification

  3. #123

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselsmoke View Post
    Very helpful, thank you LED Zeppelin !

    After testing I find that my 3a shark buck only runs up to < 1a

    I tested it with the original trim pot installed, just wired it up with 24g wire to an MC-E 4p using a 11.1v Li pack which is reading 12.4v. The pack cells are plenty capable to deliver 3a with PCB rated at 6.5a. I also checked the installed resistors and verified they are .10 and .05 ohm, so I think I have the right model shark buck.

    You can see the current range I acheived below using the onboard trim pot at min and max levels. No power was applied to the board prior to being sinked to the copper C using paste and an aluminum bar.

    One thing I did find odd, before I wired anything up I found there to be some electrical path between 3 of the four connectors and the copper C. I'm the farthest thing from an EE, and don't know if this is normal. All leads except the VIN showed electrical path to the copper C, albeit at extremely high resistance.

    What should I check ?


    It appears the board is working as min LED current is very low and the fact that the pot is adjusting the LED current.

    It appears if I had to guess is the Vf of the LED + DMM is near the input battery voltage and the board is not really in buck mode at the high end. It appears it is more in DD mode and that the 1A is actually the Vf at the applied battery voltage.

    Is this possible that you have LEDs wired in series like 3 MCE?

    If that is the case you can try two and see if you get the full range.

    BTW: I like your test setup. Clamping to a metal strip or some simple heatsink is a great way to fire the board up.

    Wayne

  4. #124

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Thanks for the quick reply Wayne.

    The MC-E star I have is pre-wired as 4p, so to my understanding I should see Vf of between 3 and 4 volts, and my shark buck could offer each of the 4 dies up to 750ma each (I certainly could be wrong on this math.)

    My intent is to use the board with a couple of serial wired P7's that I just received today, but that should be an equivalent setup as the 4p MC-E but with about double Vf. I can test a P7 tonight, and I'll check the Vf on the stars while I'm at it.

  5. #125

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    I got the P7's as expected and ran some tests with the board using 3 different battery packs.

    7.4v - 2s 18650 Trustfire 2500mah, actual voltage = 7.68
    11.1v - 3s3p 18650 Tenergy pack, actual voltage = 12.4
    14.8v - 4s2p 18650 Tenergy pack, actual voltage = 15.46

    The Tenergy packs have a PCB that kicks at 6.5a. I've never tested them that far but the 14.8v pack has run 32w of halogen which would be somewhere around 2a, and that worked well for about 2 hours. The protected Trustfire cells are fairly well known, and I can't imagine that any of these cells wouldn't be capable of 3a discharge.

    As expected, the P7 behaved very similar to the MC-E 4p. I ran the emitters individual and also in serial. My end goal is to run two P7's in serial.

    Results are below:

    Battery--P7 Vf----P7 amp--MCE Vf--MCE amp---P7+MCE amp

    7.4-------3.42v----2.18a----3.11v-----1.93a-------.75a
    11.1------3.39v----1.05a-----3.10v------.96a-------1.9a
    14.8------3.39v-----.84a-----3.09v------.77a-------1.48a

    There seems to be a sweet spot at 7.4v with single emitter, or 11.1v with two emitters, but I'm still not getting close to 3a. Could this be a match of Vin and (Vf of emitters + board + DMM) providing the sweet spot ? I thought the buck board should even this out and provide constant current.

    I know the 11.1 and 14.8v packs are further from full charge than the Trustfire cells, but I think both have enough charge to do better than this. I'm topping off the 14.8v pack today and will see if that changes anything.

    So now I have data, but still no answer. Any ideas ??

  6. #126

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    dieselsmoke,

    It's starting to sound like a bad board.

    Most of the time either the board works or it doesn't work.

    Is it possible the DMM measuring the current is on the input side and not the output side. Just need clarification on your setup.

    Did you measure the Vf at the board or downstream closer to the LED. It's possible that the alligator clips, connections and junctions might be poor crimped or connected. There could be a substantial voltage drop across one or more connections and that could throw off the measurements you made and possibly explain the odd behaviour.

    If all the connections are good I would say the board is defective.

    Wayne

  7. #127

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    You got me on the right track Wayne. On your suggestion, I took a second look at my setup, and contrary to what I thought, I did have the DMM on the battery side of the board, hence the lower amp measurements using the higher voltage packs....

    I soldered all the temporary connections together, and put the DMM in the right place between the board and emitters, and I'm seeing 2.755a with my external pot and any 7v or greater battery pack I use

    Thanks for setting me straight !

  8. #128
    Flashaholic* Aircraft800's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Is there a way to run two SHARK Buck 3A in parallel to push a single PhlatLight SST-50 LED to it's 5A maximum at 3.6V, even if it is for "Burst" only? I plan on running it in the 2.8A area most of the time, but a occasional 5A burst, and driven by 3 Li-Ion cells.

  9. #129
    Flashaholic* petrev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Hi

    Update : I had a 1 level Shark-Remora but it wasn't Wayne's fault as I had damaged it while fitting it
    Somehow knocked a resistor off apparently

    Wayne sorted it out really quickly and didn't call me stupid once.

    Cheers for the great service
    Pete

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Does the Shark Buck run OK on one cell?
    I want to run an SST-50 with 2amps or better on a single 18650.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronM View Post
    Does the Shark Buck run OK on one cell?
    I want to run an SST-50 with 2amps or better on a single 18650.
    No, the Shark Buck needs a couple of volts overhead to maintain regulation. With a large LED or multiple parallel LEDs with Vf of 3.5V or so requires 5+ volts for the Shark Buck. That would be min or the voltage of the discharge state of the batteries and a fresh cell setup would therefore be 6-8V.

    Wayne

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Can I use a KD sku s006236 PWM board to act as a switch-controllable substitute for the Remora? I read on page 3 about using a 7135 chip as a PWM controller for the Shark, and this circuit I listed sounds like a similar approach without needing to modify the board, but I am not sure how to implement it.


  13. #133
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by mudman cj View Post
    Can I use a KD sku s006236 PWM board to act as a switch-controllable substitute for the Remora? I read on page 3 about using a 7135 chip as a PWM controller for the Shark, and this circuit I listed sounds like a similar approach without needing to modify the board, but I am not sure how to implement it.
    KD sku s006236 is a Cat Eye Lens SKU: S006236
    http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDeta...ProductId=5701

  14. #134
    Flashaholic* mudman cj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    I must be a bit lysdexic. That should have been s006326.


  15. #135
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    No, the Shark Buck needs a couple of volts overhead to maintain regulation. With a large LED or multiple parallel LEDs with Vf of 3.5V or so requires 5+ volts for the Shark Buck. That would be min or the voltage of the discharge state of the batteries and a fresh cell setup would therefore be 6-8V.

    Wayne
    Hi Wayne.For my first mod I like to use a Maglite 4D,a P7 -DSVNI emitter,a Shark Buck Driver and a Remora.Cells are 4 NiMh D size 12000mAh (input voltage 4.4V-5.6V).Like to run it at max.2.8Amps.
    My dilema is min.input voltage.In post#24 you saying it is 3V recommended 4V and in post#131 min.6-8Volts.Please let me know which one is corect?
    Thank you,regards cfive-1.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    cfive-1,

    Post 24 is the generic specifications.

    For a specific application you must always have Vin greater than Vf or the Buck converter will not be stepping down. If the P7 Vf is 3.5V then Vin must always be greater than 3.5V for A buck converter.

    The buck regulator will fall out of regulation when Vin approaches ~20% over Vf or ~1.3V above 3.5V.

    For a 4 cell NiMH, Alkaline means you will maintain regulation for only a short period of time on high. After that it will fall into DD mode.

    The batteries under load will sag making Vin lower on high.

    Wayne

  17. #137
    Flashaholic* mudman cj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Edit: Nevermind my question about using a different board to control the Shark. I see now that it makes more sense to use the Remora. Not only is it cheaper, but it is also backed by MUCH better customer service.
    Last edited by mudman cj; 09-24-2009 at 05:49 PM.


  18. #138
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    cfive-1,

    Post 24 is the generic specifications.

    For a specific application you must always have Vin greater than Vf or the Buck converter will not be stepping down. If the P7 Vf is 3.5V then Vin must always be greater than 3.5V for A buck converter.

    The buck regulator will fall out of regulation when Vin approaches ~20% over Vf or ~1.3V above 3.5V.

    For a 4 cell NiMH, Alkaline means you will maintain regulation for only a short period of time on high. After that it will fall into DD mode.

    The batteries under load will sag making Vin lower on high.

    Wayne
    Wayne thanks for help I hoppe you can give me more advice.
    When Shark Buck goes to DD at ~4.8V will LED current rise over 2.8A and could demage LED (my batt.are high capacitty and high discharge current)?
    Or may be you could sugest better driver for my aplication.
    Thank you,regards cfive-1.

  19. #139
    Flashaholic* mudman cj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Hopefully no one will mind if I answer this one for Wayne.

    The LED current will not exceed a 2.8 Amp regulation setting unless the batteries supply more than the upper voltage limit to the circuit (24V). When the battery voltage falls below about 4.8V, the LED current will no longer be held at 2.8 Amps, but will gradually decline from there.
    Last edited by mudman cj; 09-24-2009 at 05:44 PM.


  20. #140
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by mudman cj View Post
    Hopefully no one will mind if I answer this one for Wayne.

    The LED current will not exceed a 2.8 Amp regulation setting unless the batteries supply more than the upper voltage limit to the circuit (24V). When the battery voltage falls below about 4.8V, the LED current will no longer be held at 2.8 Amps, but will gradually decline from there.
    Hi mudman cj
    Thank you for your replay(I think it's meant for me).I tested my batteries in DD input 4.1V output 2.3A at 3.5V at P7 LED.At input 5.4V(fully charged) output 7.5A(I stoped after few seconds).I did not test yet at 4.8V.
    Regards cfive-1.

  21. #141
    Flashaholic* mudman cj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    cfive-1: I did not mean to run the LED DD without the circuit in between. 4.8V is too much without the circuit (never mind 5.4V! ), but with the circuit then there is a voltage reduction to the LED which leaves about 3.5V left at the LED given 4.8V into the circuit.


  22. #142
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    mudman cj, I do not run DD that wos only short testing.Still looking for a driver which can give regulated output 2.8A at input voltage 4.4V-5.4V.

  23. #143
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by cfive-1 View Post
    Hi mudman cj
    Thank you for your replay(I think it's meant for me).I tested my batteries in DD input 4.1V output 2.3A at 3.5V at P7 LED.At input 5.4V(fully charged) output 7.5A(I stoped after few seconds).I did not test yet at 4.8V.
    Regards cfive-1.
    Out of curiosity, were you able to measure the voltage drop of the four NiMH D under the 7.5A load? I'm contemplating direct driving a 9A SST-90 from four D NiMH (AccuPower LSD cells) if they'll sag low enough to not drive the SST90 over 9A...

  24. #144
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Techjunkie
    Test was-4xfrash charged NiMh 12000mAh Titanium PowPower.No load voltage 5.6V.
    DD a P7 Bin C (other data unknown) for 5-7 seconds,current through LED 7.5A and stedy.I did not measure batt.voltage under load(voltage drop),I have only one tester and can not measure 2 values at a time.
    Sorry I am afraid to repiet test it could burn LED.
    Regards cfive-1.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Hey Wayne

    I was wonderin' if I could use Assembled SHARK with Remora to drive my P7 "J" with 9AA to 3D holder..would it be enough to last for awhile or do I need to change the power source to different kind of battery ?

  26. #146

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie02 View Post
    Hey Wayne

    I was wonderin' if I could use Assembled SHARK with Remora to drive my P7 "J" with 9AA to 3D holder..would it be enough to last for awhile or do I need to change the power source to different kind of battery ?
    You can run the P7 from 8 to 12 AA battery configuration.

    I'm sure others have more info on configurations that they have done.

    Wayne

  27. #147
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by dat2zip View Post
    You can run the P7 from 8 to 12 AA battery configuration.

    I'm sure others have more info on configurations that they have done.

    Wayne

    which one is best for my mod ? Shark Buck or Blue Shark ?

  28. #148
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Any ETA on the SharkBucks?
    -Will-

    Sorry, I have retired from flashlight modding, I do not offer machining services, & I do not make custom flashlights. Thank you for your understanding.

    My Mod Archive

  29. #149
    Flashaholic* Aircraft800's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Wayne,

    With the new Cree XM-L LED's with low fv, is it possible to run 3X XM-L with 3X 17670 Li-Ion's, or is that too close to the Buck Sharks limits? I know 4 Li-Ion would be a better combination, but I don't know of any 4S 18650 adapters for dual boared Mags, but there are plentyful 3X 17670 adapters

  30. #150

    Default Re: Shark Buck

    Three LEDs with Vf of 3V is 9V in total.

    Remember take your batteries low and high Voltage. For a fresh li-ion that would be 4.2V and I don't know where you consider discharge is, but, let's say 2.5V.

    For three batteries that would be 7.5V to 12.6V.

    In order for the Shark buck to be in regulation all the time the complete battery range must be higher with margin in order to maintain regulation.

    Since 9V is not always less than 7.5V - 12.6V this situation is not optimum for full regulation all the time.

    It may be in regulation under fresh batteries conditions, but, will fall out of regulation at some point in time before the batteries are fully depleted.

    To determine a different configuration determine the following:

    1) sum up the Vf of all the series LEDs.

    2) Based on the battery technology and number of batteries determine the low and high battery voltage.

    3) For a boost the low and high must be less than the sum of Vf. For a buck the low and high must always be higher than the sum of Vfs.

    Wayne

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