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Thread: UV LED's for sterilization???

  1. #31
    Flashaholic* 1 what's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Hi AW!
    Do you know anyone who sells them at a "retail" level?

  2. #32
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Hello Phreeflow,

    I am going to move this discussion over to the LED section of the forum.

    Tom
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Seoul makes the 255nm UV LED for germicidal and medical applications :

    http://www.socled.com/en/product/prd/DeepUVLED255.asp
    Anyone know whot to talk to about building some 6P drop in bulbs?

    Wes

  4. #34
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Not to be a nit picker here, but UV light doesn't actually kill bacteria, it only inhibits it's ability to multiply, thereby stopping it's ability to reproduce. Sort of a miniature vasectomy. That's good enough however, because a few bacteria won't hurt you, it's only when all the offspring start having offspring etc. etc. that you get harmed.
    At least that's what I learned in biology many many years ago.
    Isn't it strange that people are happy to adopt epithets they would fight to the death to throw off had they been imposed?

  5. #35

    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by travelinman View Post
    Not to be a nit picker here, but UV light doesn't actually kill bacteria, it only inhibits it's ability to multiply
    This is only partly correct. UV light damages the DNA - very unspecific. Some of this damage inhibits important life functions, some of them inhibits growth and multiplying. The key is, that the UV-dose is high enough to damage enough DNA to overload the internal repair mechanism. And this is equal to being dead. Otherwise the microbes are only harmed and require some time to repair themselves. After that they are ready to do their thing again. This is one of the reasons why UV-disinfection has a bad rep in water supply. If you don't do it correctly then you don't really disinfect. Doing it correctly is not an easy thing to do (Computational Fluid Dynamics - anybody?).

  6. #36
    Flashaholic* Rexlion's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by travelinman View Post
    Not to be a nit picker here, but UV light doesn't actually kill bacteria, it only inhibits it's ability to multiply, thereby stopping it's ability to reproduce. Sort of a miniature vasectomy. That's good enough however, because a few bacteria won't hurt you, it's only when all the offspring start having offspring etc. etc. that you get harmed.
    At least that's what I learned in biology many many years ago.
    I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Stop shining that UV LED into your pants, and get a real vasectomy like the rest of us...
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  7. #37

    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by Wangstang View Post
    Anyone know whot to talk to about building some 6P drop in bulbs?

    Wes
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  8. #38
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    It's not an LED, but I just stumbled across a UVC germicidal bulb at Target today. It's in the hardware section by the air purifiers. I bought one to experiment with.

    Near as I can find out it's a 3 watt 10v bulb that's intended to work with a ballast in it's host device, a small UV air purifier that plugs into a light socket. The linked page shows a photo of the bulb also.

    This lamp is very reminiscent of the old OZ-4 ozone bulb, aka the G-E G4S11, with an incandescent filament and a tiny drop of mercury visible inside the clear quartz envelope. They're commonly used in water purifiers and tootbrush sanitizers as well as air purifiers. Many years ago they used to use the OZ-4 bulbs in commercial restroom hand dryers.

    At any rate I'm not sure what I'll use it for yet, but i'll think of something.
    Last edited by PhotonWrangler; 10-20-2009 at 04:10 PM.

  9. #39
    Flashaholic* Rexlion's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by PhotonWrangler View Post
    ...At any rate I'm nto sure what I'll use it for yet, but i'll think of something.
    That sounds like a lot of us with our lights.
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  10. #40
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke View Post
    Why not just use the Steripen to begin with?
    Steripens are a great way to get sick. They only work in water. If you dip your drinking vessel into the contaminated water source, then use the steripen, what is going to purify the germs you got on the outside and top of the container? You will just recontaminate trying to pour across the top of the container to put it into another container to drink it.

    The military tabs tell you to loosen the lid and shake the canteen to get antiseptic water onto the threads. The steripen purified water is not antiseptic so it would not kill anything by itself. The chemicals in the military tabs do actively kill bugs.

    Also, sterilized crap is still crap. The solids in the water actually will protect germs inside the solids. Light can't get to it so it lives through the treatment and goes into your belly.

    Use a real water filter.
    Last edited by batmanacw; 10-18-2009 at 01:13 PM.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
    I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Stop shining that UV LED into your pants, and get a real vasectomy like the rest of us...
    That's why I keep getting a real bad sunburn down there!
    Isn't it strange that people are happy to adopt epithets they would fight to the death to throw off had they been imposed?

  12. #42
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by batmanacw View Post
    Steripens are a great way to get sick. They only work in water. If you dip your drinking vessel into the contaminated water source, then use the steripen, what is going to purify the germs you got on the outside and top of the container? You will just recontaminate trying to pour across the top of the container to put it into another container to drink it.

    The military tabs tell you to loosen the lid and shake the canteen to get antiseptic water onto the threads. The steripen purified water is not antiseptic so it would not kill anything by itself. The chemicals in the military tabs do actively kill bugs.

    Also, sterilized crap is still crap. The solids in the water actually will protect germs inside the solids. Light can't get to it so it lives through the treatment and goes into your belly.

    Use a real water filter.
    I love my Steri pen, got two of them in fact. I used it all over S. America last year and didn't get the runs at all. I also didn't eat salads, or any fruits that I couldn't peel myself. You can also get bacteria from any food that you buy at a stand or restaurant so it's really hard to tell where you pick it up if you travel in any poorer part of the world.

    Steri pens work great though, if you are careful, but if you use the poison pills I wouldn't trust what the "poisons" do to you after they kill the bacteria.
    Isn't it strange that people are happy to adopt epithets they would fight to the death to throw off had they been imposed?

  13. #43
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by travelinman View Post
    I love my Steri pen, got two of them in fact. I used it all over S. America last year and didn't get the runs at all. I also didn't eat salads, or any fruits that I couldn't peel myself. You can also get bacteria from any food that you buy at a stand or restaurant so it's really hard to tell where you pick it up if you travel in any poorer part of the world.

    Steri pens work great though, if you are careful, but if you use the poison pills I wouldn't trust what the "poisons" do to you after they kill the bacteria.
    Did you use them in the field or just in a hotel? Too totally different situations. I would not hesitate to use one in my hotel room, but try dunking a glass in a river and not getting any bad stuff on the outside of the glass where you put your lips.

    I also tend to avoid eating anything not really well cooked when traveling in Mexico. That is when I can't avoid it totally.

    Those poisons taste terrible. that is why I use a katadyn hiker pro. The water from our local streams taste better than bottled after I am done. I am going to pick up a pocket filter by the same company in the near future.

    I travel for a living. A sweetwater filter, straw type filter, and micropur tablets come with me every time I travel anywhere.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by batmanacw View Post
    Steripens are a great way to get sick. They only work in water. If you dip your drinking vessel into the contaminated water source, then use the steripen, what is going to purify the germs you got on the outside and top of the container? You will just recontaminate trying to pour across the top of the container to put it into another container to drink it.

    The military tabs tell you to loosen the lid and shake the canteen to get antiseptic water onto the threads. The steripen purified water is not antiseptic so it would not kill anything by itself. The chemicals in the military tabs do actively kill bugs.

    Also, sterilized crap is still crap. The solids in the water actually will protect germs inside the solids. Light can't get to it so it lives through the treatment and goes into your belly.

    Use a real water filter.
    Except filters do not get viruses....

    I've got something nobody has mentioned, a uv aquastar
    http://www.uvaquastar.com/skins/2008...9&SkipFlip=201

    Fits to a normal 1l nalgene bottle. Had it for about 4 years now. Comes with a little set of prefilters (like a coffee filter) to screen out big chunks.
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  15. #45
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    For those reading this in a 'here's some good water filtering/etc advice':

    Chemicals such as chlorine and iodine can leave a nasty taste. They also have a dwell (wait) time that can be short (in warm water) or 4 hours or more (in cold water). They also DO NOT GET cryptosporidium.

    Filters can let viruses such as cryptosporidium through.

    UV kills all nasty bugs if the water is clear enough. Keep the threads of the bottle clean and fitler out the chunky stuff and you'll be fine.

    MSR makes a device which delivers some sort of mystery liquid (paraphrasing their words) based on salt water breakdown through electric current. It's supposedly effective against bacteria AND viruses. It suffers from dwell time, but taste is not affected much.

    Boiling vigorously for 5-10 minutes kills everything.

    Contaminants are somewhat removed by filtering as filters often contain charcoal 2nd stage filters which help with taste issues.

    Personally, when in the backcountry, I filter then dose with UV. My msr filter screws on to top of the uv aquastar bottle. Filter comes off, uv goes in, and I am ready to go.

    So that's it. Not going to derail thread anymore. Questions? PM me.
    This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
    Be prepared for the truth.

  16. #46

    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    It is now almost a year since the last post -- any update on when we might see SteriPEN products using UV LEDs?


  17. #47
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    I still don't see any major movement in the shortwave UV LED arena. I'd like to have an LED-based SteriPEN also, but there are apparently some serious manufacturing challenges. For now I'm sticking with conventional mercury-vapor UVC lamps.

    **EDIT**

    Maybe I should post this one under Pet Peeves, but I'm seeing some 365nm longwave UVA LEDs being marketed as "UVC" (shortwave germicidal) LEDs. Buyer beware.

    UVA = 400-320nm longwave "blacklight"
    UVB = 320-290nm medium wave
    UVC = 290-100nm "germicidal" shortwave
    Last edited by PhotonWrangler; 09-30-2010 at 08:53 PM.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Another year down...any updates?

    Wes

  19. #49
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    I still haven't seen any breakthroughs in shortwave UV LEDs. We're still stuck with germicidal fluorescent lamps for awhile longer.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by PhotonWrangler View Post
    I still haven't seen any breakthroughs in shortwave UV LEDs. We're still stuck with germicidal fluorescent lamps for awhile longer.
    I keep updating a folder whenever I come across anything to do with UV LEDs and disinfection. The latest entry I have is:
    http://www.crystal-is.com/press.cfm/newsitem/86372

    Some day, I want to have a LED based sterilization room for the daily disinfection of metal greenhouse production carts.

    Stephen Lebans

    Stephen Lebans

  21. #51
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Interesting - thanks Stephen.

  22. #52
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Another "breakthrough" but still only half the WPE of the current non LED solutions.

    http://www.s-et.com/news.html
    SETi reaches milestone UVC LED efficiencies of over 10%

    Sensor Electronic Technology, Inc (SETi) announced record efficiencies of ultraviolet light emitting diodes (UV LEDs) operating in the germicidal UV-C range of 11% external quantum efficiency (EQE) with a corresponding wall-plug efficiency (WPE) of 8%. This industry beating result was achieved under the DARPA Compact Mid-Ultraviolet Technology (CMUVT) program and in collaboration with Army Research Laboratories (ARL). read more (pdf)

  23. #53
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Another interesting find. Thanks Slebans.

    Even with a WPE that is half of fluorescent-based counterparts, I think there will be a number of applications where this is the preferred solution just from the standpoint of ruggedness. I've never liked the idea of carrying around a fragile glass tube when I need a portable UV source.

  24. #54

    Unhappy Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    I know they work but I guess since I can not see the magic smoke I harbor some caveman type fear of it. Same with the water purification tablets. I would use them in a pinch but if I have time I think I will still boil.
    Thing the lights are really good for is going to some place like Mexico with a less then 100% water supply. Many an american has fallen before the might of the single cell.

  25. #55

    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    The pdf link didn't work for me for the 278nm uv led so I thought I would post it again.
    Anyone know the usual length between a press release and the actual availability for this company.

    Might be a DARPA hard problem.

    Any help would be appreciated.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Another breakthrough to keep an eye on.
    http://www.hexatechinc.com/news_events.html#aug072012

  27. #57
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    http://www.ledinside.com/news/2013/1...t_led_20120122

    Japanese researchers Akinori Koukitu and Yoshinao Kumagai, who are professor and associate professor, respectively, at the Division of Applied Chemistry, the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology (TUAT), and researchers of Tokuyama Corp. , have made breakthroughs on a deep ultraviolet LED that has the world's highest levels of output characteristics.

    With a forward current of 150mA, its output and external quantum efficiency are 20mW and 3.0%, respectively.

  28. #58
    Flashaholic* JohnR66's Avatar
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Nichia has some high power deep UV LEDs:
    http://www.nichia.co.jp/en/about_nic...12_122601.html

  29. #59
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    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR66 View Post
    Nichia has some high power deep UV LEDs:
    http://www.nichia.co.jp/en/about_nic...12_122601.html
    Wow. I'll bet those will cost a pretty penny.

  30. #60

    Default Re: UV LED's for sterilization???

    I just found this forum with a search for UV flashlights. I'm interested in finding fluorescent minerals, some of which require short wave UV. In the past I've used a mercury lamp with a filter to pass the 254 nm radiation, but I've been wondering if LED technology has progressed to the point where a short wave (deep) UV LED flashlight would be possible for a reasonable price.

    I see the Nichia LEDs linked a couple of posts up, and the power level is amazing, and more than needed for my purpose.

    So far, I've been a little OT, but LEDs suitable for short wave mineralogy are also good for sterilization. Here's a link to a source of LED sterilization items I found. The radiant power of these LEDs is much lower than the Nichias, but the price is probably also lower. This is the US web site for a Chinese supplier:

    http://www.ledwv.com/en/uv-sterilizer-c-21.html

    It looks like you could actually buy these and not have to try to get a sample, although for the LEDs a minimum order quantity of 20 is required.

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