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Thread: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

  1. #31
    Flashaholic* LukeA's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockz4532 View Post
    how would chlorine have been in the light?
    Cell chemistry = LiSOCl2

  2. #32
    Flashaholic* gswitter's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Could the OP clear up a couple things?

    - Was the host rit dyed? -sounds like it was
    - Assuming it was...
    - What was in the dye and/or in the water?
    - Has the light been used since it was dyed, and how much?



  3. #33
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    SureFire SF123A batteries are LiMnO2 Lithium Manganese Dioxide.

    It seems to make sense explore the impact modifying the G2 with aftermarket dye had and whether this caused or contributed to the failure. It looks that way so far.

    I know from experience that flashlights take far longer to dry out then I expected. I would advocate slow, gentle drying for at least a week depending on how low the humidity is. I've had one SureFire disassembled for two weeks in the airing cupboard (warmest, driest place in the house) to get rid of a window-misting issue.

    Modifying a SureFire product, using an aftermarket LED drop-in... Doesn't seem too promising that SureFire will warranty it but you can but call 'em and ask I guess.
    Last edited by Size15's; 11-24-2008 at 07:02 PM.

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* rockz4532's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    oh good, i only use SF cells, and isnt that LA the R2 from DX (haha SF LA R2 DX)
    Fenix: TK10, P2D Q5, LD01, L0P-SE, Nitecore D10, Inova X5, Surefire G2, Mag ROP-LE, Quark AA-Neutral

  5. #35
    *Flashaholic* kramer5150's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    This is interesting... so we have:
    -Sealed volume of air provided by the G2
    -Brass + Aluminum from the DX module
    -Water vapor (potentially)
    -RIT dye (potentially)
    -Periodic current draw from the cells as the light was used
    -3 Weeks of fermentation (for lack of a better term)

    What does surefire use to plate the inner metal sleeve of the G2?

    Like Al... I have found it takes a surprisingly long time to completely dry a flashlight that has been exposed to water.
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  6. #36
    Flashaholic* LukeA's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    SureFire SF123A batteries are LiMnO2 Lithium Manganese Dioxide.
    Guess what element is in the electrolyte.

  7. #37
    Flashaholic* Cosmo7809's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by gswitter View Post
    Could the OP clear up a couple things?

    - Was the host rit dyed? -sounds like it was
    - Assuming it was...
    - What was in the dye and/or in the water?
    - Has the light been used since it was dyed, and how much?
    Yes it was dyed about 3... 4 weeks ago, I let the G2 dry for a good 24 hours and then made it dry more, not used too too much. Just here and there.
    Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

  8. #38

    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    i think if water comes in contact with lithium this happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhW7...eature=related so maybe that happened in your light, what i mean by "that" is when lithium comes in contact whith water it creates heat and hydrogen, causing hydrogen to ignite because of the heat.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeA View Post
    Guess what element is in the electrolyte.

    Just a remark about a repeated posting style:
    A bit less attitude and a generally more friendly approach to a conversation with fellow flashaholics would be appreciated.

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  10. #40
    *Flashaholic* Sgt. LED's Avatar
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    Crackup Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Should that count when we are talking to size15?

    He speaks to CPF'ers with all the grace and care of a sledgehammer, can we not match him?

    Just kidding by the way!
    Last edited by Sgt. LED; 11-24-2008 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Joke joke joke joke!

  11. #41
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    It's like, CSI for flashlights. This thread is very informative so far, hopefully we can develop some conclusive idea as to what caused this.

    I'm very much in favor of blaming water, in conjunction with the lithium cells, in conjunction with a few coincidences that may not be easy to re-produce.

    --------------------

    Cheers to Niconical's offering!!!
    I've received some gifts from him already, definitely one of the most generous CPFers I know

    Eric

  12. #42

    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niconical View Post
    All this talk about the death of a flashlight is depressing.

    Let's cheer things up

    Cosmo7809, Christmas is just around the corner, so if Surefire don't warranty it, let me know, and I'll send you a new and unopened G2

    Pm on the way.....
    WOW! What a deal! If anything ever happens to one of my M3s, M3Ts, or M4s, I'll be sure to let Niconical know!

    But seriously, a very generous offer. Good to know such people/CPFers, exist out there!

  13. #43
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)


    _

  14. #44
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    You said that the batteries were ok, no obvious damage to them. What is the voltage of the cells now? Were the Surefire cells checked for voltage prior to putting them in the light? Looks like the R2 drop in shorted out somehow.

    Bill

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* Nyctophiliac's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niconical View Post

    Cosmo7809, Christmas is just around the corner, so if Surefire don't warranty it, let me know, and I'll send you a new and unopened G2

    Pm on the way.....

    That is a great offer, and a very kind one. Truly the spirit of the festive season is amongst us.


    What a gentleman!





    Be lucky...

  16. #46
    Flashaholic* jumpstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Yikes, looks like serious corrosion on a grand scale.
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  17. #47
    Flashaholic* Cosmo7809's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    I want to make this post in a thank you for Niconical. He is such a great guy and more people should be like him! I cannot thank him more for his kindness. Thank you Nick and have a Merry merry Christmas!!!!
    Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

  18. #48
    Flashaholic* will's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    RIT dye suggests adding salt to the dye solution. I am not sure what concentration of RIT dye was used here. If there was salt, that is the reaction I would expect to see between brass and aluminum. There may even be salt in the RIT dye itself.

    Whenever I use any solution on anything electronic, I rinse with plain water for quite some time to remove any residual solution. The next step I use is to blow off the part with compressed air. This will drive the remaining solution out from between small spaces on the part.

    To be really sure, I will rinse again and blow out the part a second time.

    Think of a threaded part, the water that gets between the male and female parts will not air dry, It needs some help. Forced air will drive some of that moisture out. A second method is to use low heat. Parts placed in an oven at 110 degrees will speed the drying process.

    Looking at the pictures, it looks like the result of residual moisture and a chemical reaction between the brass and the aluminum.
    Now I can see the darkness .

  19. #49
    Flashaholic* Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    hmmm, its amazing HOW much this looks like a alk leakage....!

    Crenshaw

  20. #50
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by will View Post
    RIT dye suggests adding salt to the dye solution. I am not sure what concentration of RIT dye was used here. If there was salt, that is the reaction I would expect to see between brass and aluminum. There may even be salt in the RIT dye itself.

    Whenever I use any solution on anything electronic, I rinse with plain water for quite some time to remove any residual solution. The next step I use is to blow off the part with compressed air. This will drive the remaining solution out from between small spaces on the part.

    To be really sure, I will rinse again and blow out the part a second time.

    Think of a threaded part, the water that gets between the male and female parts will not air dry, It needs some help. Forced air will drive some of that moisture out. A second method is to use low heat. Parts placed in an oven at 110 degrees will speed the drying process.

    Looking at the pictures, it looks like the result of residual moisture and a chemical reaction between the brass and the aluminum.

    Aaah... Not sure what the salt content of RIT dye is, but I have seen it recommended as an additive to the dye solution to help the dye set more permanently into the plastics.
    CLICK HERE for my flashlight reviews.
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  21. #51
    Flashaholic* Cosmo7809's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    No salt used here.
    Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

  22. #52
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeA View Post
    Guess what element is in the electrolyte.
    Nice try
    The element within the electrolyte is different from the cell chemistry.
    Whether or not the electrolyte used by SF123A batteries contains Chlorine is different to SF123A batteries being Lithium Thionyl Chloride; which they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. LED View Post
    Should that count when we are talking to size15?
    He speaks to CPF'ers with all the grace and care of a sledgehammer, can we not match him?

    Just kidding by the way!
    It's the way I am with everybody; don't want CPF'ers thinking they get special treatment.

  23. #53
    *Flashaholic* Sgt. LED's Avatar
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    Talking Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)


  24. #54
    Flashaholic* hopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    1.Vinegar and an old toothbrush should be able to clean it all up. (acidic)
    Rinse well with water before next step.

    2. A water and baking soda solution brushing (basic) after the vinegar scrub
    will neutralize any acid left, rinse well with distilled water. Dry with a fan and it'll
    shine like new but have some pits.

  25. #55
    Flashaholic Taboot's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by mdocod View Post
    It's like, CSI for flashlights. This thread is very informative so far, hopefully we can develop some conclusive idea as to what caused this.

    I'm very much in favor of blaming water, in conjunction with the lithium cells, in conjunction with a few coincidences that may not be easy to re-produce.

    --------------------

    Cheers to Niconical's offering!!!
    I've received some gifts from him already, definitely one of the most generous CPFers I know

    Eric
    Haha! I was thinking it was like a House, MD episode!

    Man, it looks just like an Alkaline battery issue I had that killed my 6D Mag. Clearly, it's not though.....

  26. #56

    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    That's what my leaked m@gcharger looked like. Very corrosive stuff. (whatever is it)

    Last edited by Paul520; 11-25-2008 at 12:59 PM.

  27. #57
    Flashaholic* WadeF's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    I have a lot of these brass/aluminum drop ins and have never seen aything like that. There must have been some kind of moisture in the light. It may well have been water and dye left on the threads, etc. If it was only left to sit around for 24 hours it was most likely still damp. Once the light was assembled it was probably pretty humid inside the body after awhile.

    Also were the batteries the same voltage? Couldn't sticking a near dead cell and a fresh cell in a 2 cell light cause venting?
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  28. #58
    Administrator Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    The G2 body has a metal sleeve press-fit inside it - a moisture trap no doubt. Even if it was removed for the dying process, putting it back in before the body was fully dry would not have helped.

  29. #59
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Ok, guys. I think I know the problem here. I just checked my two G2's. Both were RIT dyed by me that night when we were all excited about doing that. I let both of mine dry for about 36 hours, maybe a little less. I have not taken them apart since I finished reassembling them a couple of months ago (or so). I just took them apart right now. Both have the SF123 cells in them. One has a P60, the other a P61 LA. Both LA's have the same corrosion on the outside of the LA's. Both are not as serious as the OP'er. The P60 is a bit worse than the P61 for whatever reason. The G2+P61 has a SF shock-isolated tactical bezel on it, whereas the G2+P60 had the stock bezel. I'm thinking the P61 didn't get affected as much because of not being exposed to as much moisture due to it being surrounded by the aluminum bezel. The P60 clearly had more exposure to moisture from the G2 bezel. My cells are fine.

    Definitely let dyed G2's dry out A LOT longer than a day or two before reassembling them.

    Sorry about no pics. No way to post them.
    Last edited by socom1970; 11-25-2008 at 03:07 PM.
    "Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10

  30. #60
    Flashaholic* Cosmo7809's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT THE %$#@ (Pic Heavy)

    Quote Originally Posted by socom1970 View Post
    Ok, guys. I think I know the problem here. I just checked my two G2's. Both were RIT dyed by me that night when we were all excited about doing that. I let both of mine dry for about 36 hours, maybe a little less. I have not taken them apart since I finished reassembling them a couple of months ago (or so). I just took them apart right now. Both have the SF123 cells in them. One has a P60, the other a P61 LA. Both LA's have the same corrosion on the outside of the LA's. Both are not as serious as the OP'er. The P60 is a bit worse than the P61 for whatever reason. The G2+P61 has a SF shock-isolated tactical bezel on it, whereas the G2+P60 had the stock bezel. I'm thinking the P61 didn't get affected as much because of not being exposed to as much moisture due to it being surrounded by the aluminum bezel. The P60 clearly had more exposure to moisture from the G2 bezel. My cells are fine.

    Definitely let dyed G2's dry out A LOT longer than a day or two before reassembling them.

    Sorry about no pics. No way to post them.
    Ummm interesting....
    Its better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

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