Ballerina requires a very small, bright light source... please help!

Hi guys!

I'm new to the forum and I'm wondering if you could put forward some solutions for a little problem I've encountered?:mecry:

I'm currently working on a photographic project. This involves a ballerina moving through the frame of the camera over a long exposure. To convey the sense of movement we want to have the ballerina holding some sort of light sources in her hands and then these will leave a light trails on the exposure. The light sources must be as small as possible, so as to be easily concealed but they need to be very bright.

Think writing in the dark with sparklers for reference! This will all be shot against a black background with a final flash shot at the end of the long exposure to show the model/ballerina frozen in movement (this is why the light sources must be small, so they don't show up much in the flash)

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Great forum guys, cheers!:twothumbs

Salazar

Ah....................

I would like to know how long it must run (constant on) for this to work.
I imagine total flood (beam profile) being good for this?

I'm not sure it needs to be as bright as you think it does... "Really bright" on this forum means "BLINDINGLY BRIGHT"!

Anyway, try a Photon Freedom (or a few if you need them). They're fairly cheap ($10-$15), tiny, come with different color LEDs (white, red, blue, etc.) and have adjustable brightness. They get pretty bright with the new 2x LEDs, as well...

I bet with long exposure times these would work perfectly. You probably won't even end up using them on full brightness if filmed against a black background...

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1253

are about as small as they come. you can get a few.

alternatively, the stuff from

www.photonlight.com are the original makers...and they have more advanced versions available too. You COULD tape them on with flesh-coloured tape....

OR, go DIY and just hook some LEDs up with small batteries....those will be alot smaller.

Crenshaw

Hmmm interesting . . . I suggest any small reasonably bright light . . Such as kaidomains buckle lights . . . But With a diffuser tip fitted . . . Think tiny traffic wands. . .lambertian type of diffusion.. . This will allow the brightness to stay the same through the dancers entire range of motion, so there won't be any bright spots in the film exposure if the light is faced directly at the camera. . .

Attention with the Photon Freedoms, they use PWM (pulse width modulation) dimming and you might see a strobing effect on your final pics. This might make a cool effect though

The PhotonII lights do have a constant on without PWM.

If you go for a Photon Light, buy some extra batteries as th econstant-on runtime is not that great, maybe an hour at reasonable brightness.

Here's a pic of some Photon Lights, mostly the Freedom varianbt with the fashion outfits:




bernie

I agree with concept0. Since this will be shot with a long exposure, your light source won't need to be very bright. A floody type of light will wash out your subject and if it's directed towards the camera you might end up with some flare. I think a small light like a fauxton might work (might still be too bright though depending on the exposure length). You can always diffuse the light with some tape if you find it too bright. It's going to take a bit of experimenting. Good luck with your project.

Another suggestion for the photon, it even comes in a white body version which would be easy to hide. It would definitely show up on a log exposure shot, you could even put a few on, like on the sleaves, maybe on the shoes...

Another option would be the various effect-lights used by the Rave guys and girls, they have small button cell belly button and what else lights that sometimes even have magnets to attack them to fabric and might be able to shine through the clothes of your ballerinan depending on how much she wears.
Might help to conceal the lightsource itself and eliminate glare and wash-out effects.

nars42 said:

Another suggestion for the photon, it even comes in a white body version which would be easy to hide. It would definitely show up on a log exposure shot, you could even put a few on, like on the sleaves, maybe on the shoes...

Click to expand...

White body?
Show me, please !!
I want one

The Liteflux LF2X might be good for this, it can easy be concealed in a hand and the brightness can be adjusted. It works on NiMH AAA rechargeable batteries (Alkaline can also be used, but they will limit maximum brightness).

Your can get it from cpf marketplace

concept0 said:

I'm not sure it needs to be as bright as you think it does... "Really bright" on this forum means "BLINDINGLY BRIGHT"!

Anyway, try a Photon Freedom (or a few if you need them). They're fairly cheap ($10-$15), tiny, come with different color LEDs (white, red, blue, etc.) and have adjustable brightness. They get pretty bright with the new 2x LEDs, as well...

I bet with long exposure times these would work perfectly. You probably won't even end up using them on full brightness if filmed against a black background...

Click to expand...

+1

Kiessling said:

If you go for a Photon Light, buy some extra batteries as th econstant-on runtime is not that great, maybe an hour at reasonable brightness.



bernie

Click to expand...

Some colors and battery combinations run signifigantly longer. A green photon II on a single cr2032 battery will run for days. The white/blue/cyan ones on 2x2016 batteries are only good for 1-2 hours. Still plenty of time for a photo shoot, since they'll only be on for a few minutes at a time. I usually get at least a few months to a year of regular use out of a white photon II, which is a few seconds to a minute every few days.

edit: I think the photon II's are going to be nearly ideal for your project. They're about the size of 3 stacked US quarters, and weigh almost nothing. The only problem is the light emission pattern from the LED, they project forward in around a 30-60 degree cone of light. If that doesn't work out maybe you could frost the LED domes with some sandpaper or abrasive scotchbrite, it may give better results. The "fauxtons" are cheap copies of the photon II, I'd grab a few of those just to see if they would work, if not it's only a couple dollars down the drain.

The Draco and Drake are extremely small and even smaller. Both are very bright (Draco is brighter) and both have adjustable brightness. Here is the link.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/166864

Did anyone see this ad on the main page?



I think the issue with this problem is that... and even a photon will have trouble with this. I think ideally, you are going to want the light pointed in the same direction at all times. If the light is moving, and the light gets pointed directly at the camera it will appear much brighter than the rest of the motion... or as the OP was saying, as a stopping point.

Now, what does not change brightness no matter what direction you point it? A clear incandescent lamp does. Maybe a 12 volt, 10 or 20 watt lamp? Maybe you can string 5 or 6, 2AA battery holders from radio shack on a belt and use some rechargeable NiMH batteries in it.

Kiessling said:

White body?
Show me, please !!
I want one

Click to expand...

went back to the website and noticed it's actually pink, oh well, close enough.

divine said:

I think the issue with this problem is that... and even a photon will have trouble with this. I think ideally, you are going to want the light pointed in the same direction at all times. If the light is moving, and the light gets pointed directly at the camera it will appear much brighter than the rest of the motion... or as the OP was saying, as a stopping point.

Now, what does not change brightness no matter what direction you point it? A clear incandescent lamp does. Maybe a 12 volt, 10 or 20 watt lamp? Maybe you can string 5 or 6, 2AA battery holders from radio shack on a belt and use some rechargeable NiMH batteries in it.

Click to expand...

I think you're making this more difficult than it has to be. If the problem is going to be the directionality of the LED light, then a diffuser should be used on a Photon. I'm thinking a small, opaque, plastic sphere of some sort would be perfect.

Where to get something like this? Off the top of my head, maybe a small opaque superball (like out of a quarter machine) with an LED-sized hole drilled in it? Although I've never seen a white opaque superball, just flourescent colors.

There's gotta be a more simple solution for a small Photon diffuser... anybody?

Maybe I am. A diffuser on a photon might be too dim, too. :shrug:

concept0 said:

I'm not sure it needs to be as bright as you think it does... "Really bright" on this forum means "BLINDINGLY BRIGHT"!

Anyway, try a Photon Freedom (or a few if you need them). They're fairly cheap ($10-$15), tiny, come with different color LEDs (white, red, blue, etc.) and have adjustable brightness. They get pretty bright with the new 2x LEDs, as well...

I bet with long exposure times these would work perfectly. You probably won't even end up using them on full brightness if filmed against a black background...

Click to expand...

Countycomm has some nice Photon style led lights. They come in two flavors - the light by itself is $1.00, the same light with a small clothespin style clip is $1.50. The clip rotates 360 degrees, so it would be ideal.

As far as diffusers go, just cover the exposed part of the led with rubber cement. It's close to being transparent, yet it should spread the light out some as well.

Another thought - instead of having the light be a point in space type of thing, have it aimed back at the dancer along whichever limb it is attached to. If the dancer is moving spatially as well as rotating, etc., it should produce some nice ghost-body style effects. Also, instead of using the on-camera flash as an ending of the shot, use a small flash handheld that you trigger with the open flash button several times through the shot. As long as she is in a different part of the frame for each flash it should produce a nice multi-image shot.

Either way, we expect to see the final results here at CPF!

as the others already typed: You dont need a bright light for this
(unf. I dont have pics (stolen from another forum) here, I can add them later if You want. They were made with a Fenix + diffusor cone).

take a Fenix E01, glue a white, milky plastic pearl on the front. That will spread the light all over
if it has to be brighter, a Fenix L0D