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Thread: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

  1. #1

    Default LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    ***If one of the mods could move this to the Review section that would be great!***

    For the longest time I thought that everything made by Coast was overpriced and of relatively low quality, especially when factoring in the price. I didn't even consider buying one until recently when I saw some positive reviews of the P7/P14. I hope this review will help improve the poor reputation that Coast seems to have on CPF. Now onto to review:

    Build:
    The Coast P7 (P7 from now on) is made out of machined aluminum. It is most likely type II anodized, so it will scratch easier than flashlights that are type III hard anodized. It has some non aggressive knurling on the middle of the body and on the tailcap, which improves the grip of the light slightly. The P7 uses a three stage forward clickie which is located on the end of the light. It also has a small hole in the tailcap so that you can attach a lanyard. It uses a 4xAAA battery carrier, that is permanently attached to the tailcap. The P7 has 24k gold contacts on the battery carrier to minimize the energy lost at the contact points.


    Coast P7

    Head:
    The P7 uses an optic which can be focused down to a spot, or defocused so that there is no hotspot at all and the beam is all flood. This is the first light I've seen that has a useful focusing system. Focusing or defocusing the light is done by sliding the head back and forth. When the head is all the way down it is defocused, and when you push the head forward it focuses. My only gripe with this method is that you can accidentally focus the light if you push forward too hard on the head. I would personally prefer that the head twisted to focus/defocus the beam. There are also holes near the head of the light to help with heat sinking. These holes mean that the light is NOT dunkable! Coast claims that it is only splash proof. Inside the head of the light is a Cree Q4 bin LED.

    Size/Weight:

    The P7 is 5.5" long and weighs 6.8oz with batteries installed.


    Maglite 2AA Minimag Compared To Coast P7

    Beam:
    The P7's beam is the most impressive I've ever seen from a flashlight! It can be focused down to a spot to give incredible throw, or defocused so that it is 100% flood. Here are some beamshots to illustrate this:


    Coast P7 Spot


    Coast P7 Flood

    Function:
    The P7 has a three stage forward clickie. If you press the light momentarily it turns on in boost mode, which drives the LED at 130%. Once you click the switch fully it turns on in low mode (15%). A second click turns the light to high mode (100%), and your third click turns the light off. When in either low or high mode if you press the switch it gives you boost mode momentarily. I've found this very useful when in low mode and wanting more light for a short period of time. It's not quite as useful when in high mode, because the difference in brightness isn't that much to the human eye.

    Output:
    There has been some discussion about how my overall output numbers might be a bit high for this specific light. Because of this I removed them and will only leave the lux at 1 meter. I'll add the lux at 1 meter for low and high later on tonight. However, I'm sure that this light puts at least what the manufacturer claims on the front the package (167 lumens).

    Boost:
    13,980 Lux


    Runtime:
    I personally have no way of testing this, so I can't say for sure. A member of another flashlight forum tested this light with NIMH cells and it ran for slightly over 1 hour on high. Coast rates the runtime of their lights to the point it takes for the light to completely shut off. Because of this the runtimes they list on their packaging need to be taken with a grain of salt. This is also one of the main reasons why they have received a bad reputation among flashlight collectors.

    Pros:
    The best beam I have ever seen!!!
    HUGE output for such a small light
    Forward clickie
    Great user interface
    Lanyard attachment

    Cons:
    Not fully waterproof (only splash proof)
    Poor regulation

    Conclusion:
    Overall I think this is a great flashlight. The beam is a real work of art and has yet to be duplicated by any other manufacturer. The entire light has a really nice hefty feel to it, and you can tell it is not a cheap flashlight the second you pick it up. In the last year Coast has really improved the overall quality of their flashlights and should be noticed for doing so. This light might not be for everyone, but if you're looking for a pocketable high output focusing flashlight, there isn't a better light on the market.
    Last edited by adirondackdestroyer; 12-06-2008 at 07:08 AM. Reason: edit

  2. #2

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    I agree its a great little flashlight and has a very good adjustable beam. Better than I have seen on several other flashlights in regards to spot to flood adjust.

    However, lightbox or not, I don't believe you can say it puts out 182 lumens based on your higher lux readings in the lightbox and referencing their original lumens values then calculating percentage differences, or just using your own conversion factor. It just doesn't work that way. I would just post the lux values in the standard 1 meter test at the 3 different power levels with both spot and flood focus mode and leave it at that.

    Except for posting the "lumens" readings, I think this is an otherwise very good post and the pictures of the flashlight and beamshots are very useful. G

  3. #3

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Impressive beam adjustments. Nice pictures. Can you post some outdoor shots relative to one or more other lights?

    For such a relatively expensive light ($120) I don't like their "lifetime guarantee", which does not cover normal wear and tear. I guess this means worn out switches and spent LEDS are not covered. What is the point of a lifetime guarantee then?

    -Hitec-
    Welcome to the 21st century. Things are going to be different.

  4. #4

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=214238
    Last outdoor set. 'The Sun' added LL T7 (which is basically the same as P7) for comparison.

    I don't want to argue, maybe it doesn't have those 182 lumens but it really is very bright, compared to my other tested (by you or someone else) flashlights it has at least 150-160 lumens. LedLenser overrates runtime but not output.

    Runtime graph is in post #12. Runs more than 1 hour...
    Last edited by phantom23; 12-06-2008 at 04:43 AM. Reason: brught->bright

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* Gunner12's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Now if only they would add good regulation(and more suitable batteries for high power LEDs) and keep the price the same.

    Thanks for the Review!

  6. #6

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    It seems that the intensity distribution in the beam pattern of Coast P7 Flood is not uniform, especially in the central region.
    Can you shot a beam pattern of Coast P7 Flood on a white wall?
    Thanks!

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* SureAddicted's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Good job adirondackdestroyer, you can never get tired from looking at them beamshots. For around $90 (AUD, thats how much they cost here) I doubt you can buy better. Having said that, I'd pick up the P14 for extra runtime. Great review.

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    Default What LED?

    Sorry, for asking... but what LED does the Coast P7 use? Does it use a Cree XR-E? (I think one of the links say its a Cree XR-E Q5 bin..). I was reading through the review (ignorantly) assuming that this flashlight used a Seoul P7 :P, then I read the "estimated" lumen ratings and was confused about what LED was in this flashlight.

  9. #9

    Default Re: What LED?

    Cree XR-E, at least Q4.

  10. #10

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGman View Post
    I agree its a great little flashlight and has a very good adjustable beam. Better than I have seen on several other flashlights in regards to spot to flood adjust.

    However, lightbox or not, I don't believe you can say it puts out 182 lumens based on your higher lux readings in the lightbox and referencing their original lumens values then calculating percentage differences, or just using your own conversion factor. It just doesn't work that way. I would just post the lux values in the standard 1 meter test at the 3 different power levels with both spot and flood focus mode and leave it at that.

    Except for posting the "lumens" readings, I think this is an otherwise very good post and the pictures of the flashlight and beamshots are very useful. G
    I don't know if it means anything, but I've tested two of the same lights that you have (Fenix T1,Fenix L2DQ5) and in both cases you tested them to be brighter than I did by a small margin.
    I can take the lumen readings out of the review, but I'm pretty confident that they are within a very percent either way of the true out the front lumens that you would get if you tested it in your IS.

    Quote Originally Posted by HitecDrftr View Post
    Impressive beam adjustments. Nice pictures. Can you post some outdoor shots relative to one or more other lights?

    For such a relatively expensive light ($120) I don't like their "lifetime guarantee", which does not cover normal wear and tear. I guess this means worn out switches and spent LEDS are not covered. What is the point of a lifetime guarantee then?

    -Hitec-
    I had a 10% off coupon and paid $76 shipped from a seller on Ebay. I can try to take some outdoor beamshots tomorrow night as long as the weather permits.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom23 View Post
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=214238
    Last outdoor set. 'The Sun' added LL T7 (which is basically the same as P7) for comparison.

    I don't want to argue, maybe it doesn't have those 182 lumens but it really is very brught, compared to my other tested (by you or someone else) flashlights it has at least 150-160 lumens. LedLenser overrates runtime but not output.

    Runtime graph is in post #12. Runs more than 1 hour...
    Keep in mind the 182 lumen reading was done with rather fresh cells. I let the light run roughly 2 minutes when I took that reading.

  11. #11

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner12 View Post
    Now if only they would add good regulation(and more suitable batteries for high power LEDs) and keep the price the same.

    Thanks for the Review!
    If they added regulation and removed the holes in the head of the light, I would consider it to be nearly the perfect flashlight.

    Quote Originally Posted by juplin View Post
    It seems that the intensity distribution in the beam pattern of Coast P7 Flood is not uniform, especially in the central region.
    Can you shot a beam pattern of Coast P7 Flood on a white wall?
    Thanks!
    The beam is VERY smooth, but not 100% perfect. I'll take a white wall beamshot tonight so you can get a better look.

    Quote Originally Posted by SureAddicted View Post
    Good job adirondackdestroyer, you can never get tired from looking at them beamshots. For around $90 (AUD, thats how much they cost here) I doubt you can buy better. Having said that, I'd pick up the P14 for extra runtime. Great review.
    Thanks! I'm glad you like the review. I actually had a really hard time deciding between the P7 and the P14. I think I made the right choice, but I still really want to check out the P14. Not only does it have better runtime, but also quite a bit more throw.

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkRX View Post
    Sorry, for asking... but what LED does the Coast P7 use? Does it use a Cree XR-E? (I think one of the links say its a Cree XR-E Q5 bin..). I was reading through the review (ignorantly) assuming that this flashlight used a Seoul P7 :P, then I read the "estimated" lumen ratings and was confused about what LED was in this flashlight.
    It uses a Cree Q4 bin. I must have forgotten to add that to my review. I'll update it now.

  12. #12

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Spot

    and flood

    compared to Romisen RC-N3. Not perfect indeed. P14 has nicer beam (especially 'flood').

  13. #13
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Nice review!

    Im using 1000mah Nimh on my P7 and you get nearlly 2h to 50%.. its not regulated but works great!

    For throw I think its the best in its size... I actually have here(at the forum) my review with a movie..

    Regards,
    Artur

  14. #14

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    I woulk like to post the beam patterns of my two focusable lens flashlights for comparison.

    Unit #1 (left) is Cree P4 modded to Cree Q2_5A, Push-pull to adjust focus, powered by 3AAA, priced at $25
    Unit #2 (right) is Non-branded 1W LED, twist to adjust focus, powered by 3AAA, priced at $13


    All beam patterns were shot under the same conditions of 100% brightness of flashlights, WB = Daylight, EV = 0, and 1 meter to the white wall.

    Control Shot -- Fenix P2D


    Unit #1 Flood


    Unit #1 Focus


    Unit #2 Flood


    Unit #2 Focus

  15. #15

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    The beam on mine looks pretty much the same as Phantom's.

    The beam of your second model looks pretty sweet! The quality of both of those looks to be less than average, but you can't expect much at that price point.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Turbo DV8's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by HitecDrftr View Post
    For such a relatively expensive light ($120) I don't like their "lifetime guarantee", which does not cover normal wear and tear. I guess this means worn out switches and spent LEDS are not covered. What is the point of a lifetime guarantee then?
    COAST guarantees its COAST knives, tools and COAST LED Lenser Lights to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the original purchaser. This guarantee does not cover normal wear and tear, nor damage resulting from misuse or neglect.
    Notice Coast's Lifetime Guarantee statement is all-encompassing over a range of products, covering their knives, tools, and lights. My experience with Coast LED Lenser suggests that the "normal wear and tear" exclusion pertains to things such as dull blades on knives, tools that have lost that crisp edge, or knurling on a light that has the anodization worn off. Don't fret over your fear that Coast might hide behind the "normal wear and tear" clause if your switch or LED goes bad. I had two lower-end (Ok, crap) early-model Coast lights that both had the switches go bad. Coast replaced both lights with much nicer (and expensive) lights which had gold plated contacts, whereas the originals were not.
    Last edited by Turbo DV8; 12-13-2009 at 03:54 PM.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic pulstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Yes, i got my (ex) LL P5 from one of the first batches... And it turned out to be very poor designed, compared to the newer series of the same model. Build quality of the newer lensers is improving with every month. (i recently bought LL P7 for my cousin's birthday-he's not a flashlight junkie, so P7 was a decent option for him, and more, here in Slovenia Led Lensers are relatively cheap (P7 was 75€, but prices of 3d MagLed varies around 40-50) (** both expensive as hell)

    I compared it (before i gave it to my cousin i needed to make a small test, to see if it works) to my LX2, and i expected that P7 will eat my LX2 in throw "district". Well, that wasn't exactly true. It throwed further, but only by a very small margin. And NO side-spill. However, defocused had very wide, uniform beam with only one pretty noticable ring. Good job on that!. Build quality seemed very good to me but comapred to Surefire...well, Lenseres are type-II annodized... It was the new, 200lumen version, but still a bit dimmer than LX2 (ceiling bounce).
    If you look for a flashlight with adjustable beam, get one from LL P-series. They aren't perfect, but more than good enough for average user, who will be astonished with high output, focusable beam and good build quality.
    Last edited by pulstar; 12-14-2009 at 02:31 AM.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* SuperTrouper's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    The beamshots of rooms lit up by the flood on a Led Lenser light always impresses me. This one is no exception, it looks like a great light when you want to be able to see a lot of the surroundings.

    People on these forums scared me off from going for a Lenser though, I wish someone like Fenix made a torch with that kind of a flood, that's all hotspot in such a compact light.

    Maybe with some more positive reviews from people who buy Lensers and tell us how they're getting on with them down the line they might re-assure people enough to go for them.

    Thanks for the great review and the tempting beamshots!

  19. #19
    Flashaholic pulstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Hey, don't get scared off because other people's opinions. we all have our own preferences. The only drawback i see in this light is 4xAAA configuration. If you use rechargeables(i don't see ANY problems with that, I were using one in my P5) you can't expect very high runtimes (each cell has onlly 800-1100mah capacity). If you look for all around(not EDC) light, Led lenser P14 would be much better choice.
    Led lensers are very nice light. Some say that the lack of regulation kills every interest for the light in them, but hey, if you want regulation, look elsewhere. With ni-mh the light gets pretty linear discharge curve. (semi-regulated). LL warn from using rechargeables, but i don't see any problems with that, especially if you won't use it on high for extremely long periods of time.

    Give it a try, in UK u guys have pretty decent prices for them.
    Doc from GG made some good reviews...

    Sorry for my language mistakes(i'm always embarrased when i reply to a native english speaker)

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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Led lenser P14 would be much better choice.
    Led lensers are very nice light.
    I was actually considering a P14 because of the AA advantage. I guess seeing people saying things like; "you'll be happy with it for a few months and then want something better" along with other posts about quality concerns made me think I should perhaps go with a more mainstream/premium brand. Mind you, over here Lenser are pretty mainstream, I think our Police use them if Lenser's site is to be believed.

    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Sorry for my language mistakes(i'm always embarrased when i reply to a native english speaker)
    Your English is a heck of a lot better than my Slovene!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperTrouper View Post
    People on these forums scared me off from going for a Lenser .........

    Maybe with some more positive reviews from people who buy Lensers and tell us how they're getting on with them down the line they might re-assure people enough to go for them.
    Ok, here's something from "down the line".

    If I had read the stuff on this forum before I'd bought my LedLenser P7 I'd have probably been scared off too. Thank god I wasn't cos I bought one over a year ago, wore it every day for a year and found it to be a wonderful, versatile light (I work outdoors mostly).

    The P7 may not have appeared to be as good as a "regulated" torch when one looked at it on paper but in real world use for me it was just perfect having what I saw as decent runtime at decent brightness on the alkalines I ran it on. Its "unregulated-ness" caused me no problems at all with it running generally at the low setting set to "spot" (there was plenty of light from that) with only maybe a sixth of its time on high or "momentary turbo". Plenty of light for a plenty long time for me.

    I now have "regulated" AA torches and can't see any difference in my general use on my alkalines except that I can't see as far on high and there's a more sudden jump from useable bright down to low as the batteries begin to fade whereas the LedLenser was a nice slow gradual decline that gave ages of notice.

    My P7 survived a few drops onto concrete with no stoppages. It's finish is a bit battered but it never once let me down, never even flickered and I can't say that for my current Fenixes or Nitecore. I don't take torches swimming with me so the P7's un-dunkability wasn't an issue for me and I had it out in the rain plenty of times with no problems.

    The only reason why I no longer carry it every day is that I don't get AAA's for free anymore so I wanted to move to an AA torch/es since I still get those size batteries free. Frankly, from a usage point of view I preferred my P7 over my current daily use Fenix TK20 and Nitecore D10. It's a personal thing I know, but the P7 is also still the best size torch for my hands that I've ever held. I have now retired it to my bedside table for when i need to go outside from bed in the night so it still gets a little use cos I just can't let it go altogether.

    LedLEnser P7 was almost perfect for me. If it had been an AA machine then it would be my daily use torch forever.
    Last edited by JaguarDave-in-Oz; 12-14-2009 at 03:14 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    I have missed this completely brfore now - a whole year has gone by. Very good to see a good and positive review of this light. Nice work!

    Moving to the Reviews section.
    Resistance is futile...

  23. #23

    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Very nice review. Aside from the fact that the Husky 2D 4W generates a higher lux rating than the P7, how do they visibly compare in throw when you shine them at a target like a tree or building a few hundred feet away (P7 at tightest focus)?

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    Flashaholic pulstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    It's in our nature that we always want to improve existing things, make them better and so on. Eventually there will be better lights even we currently own the best.

    If you always wait for something better, you miss a lot and life goes by...

    As some poet said: Carpe diem, and get the flashlight you want. But i assure you, it won't be your last...

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* Turbo DV8's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    I guess seeing people saying things like; "you'll be happy with it for a few months and then want something better" along with other posts about quality concerns made me think I should perhaps go with a more mainstream/premium brand.
    Yes, the same can be said about any light bought by a flashaholic! Even the member who owned that huge arc lamp spotlight with diesel genrator on the back of a trailer sold it and "moved on," for Christ's sake! If you don't always want a "better" flashlight, perhaps you have achieved recovery and no longer need the enabling, er ... support of other CPF members!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBeam22 View Post
    Aside from the fact that the Husky 2D 4W generates a higher lux rating than the P7, how do they visibly compare in throw when you shine them at a target like a tree or building a few hundred feet away (P7 at tightest focus)?
    I just bought my P7 two days ago. I haven't had a chance to tear into it yet. I have the Husky. I will let you know how they compare. I also have the Led Lenser Hokus Focus Cree (7438), similar to the P7, but rated at 105 lumens instead of 200. The Husky has a little more throw and ceiling bounce than the Hokus Focus. Therefore, the P7 should be interesting to compare. But even if the Husky has more throw, it's spot is even tighter than that which the P7/Hokus Focus delivers, and has enough green tint and rings to make an old-growth redwood tree envious. As impressive as the Husky throw is, that is it's only claim to fame. Otherwise, I find mine quite unused.

    Build quality of the newer lensers is improving with every month.
    The best thing LED Lenser has done to improve reliability was source better switches and go to gold plating on flat, redundant contacts. Huge improvement, but sad that the stigma of LL's prior quality may stay with them a good long while. When hard-earned money buys them crap, people remember that.

    Some say that the lack of regulation kills every interest for the light in them.
    Even though LL quality is leaps and bounds better now, the lack of regulation is, as you mention, the absolute deal-killer for so many. I have regulated lights. They have their pluses and minuses. Using NiMH in your regulated light, the pluses fade away a bit. As someone mentioned, due to the incredible nature of the prism lens, even on alkalines the light is absolutely useable even as the voltage diminishes. The difference is noted upon renewal of the cells, or in the final 9/10ths of distance throw. Sometimes I sense those who dismiss a light forthright due to lack of regulation simply cannot stand to see a non-flat curve on an output chart, regardless of how that translates to real-world perception in use.

    I'm all for regulation, and at the price LL continues to charge for lights now built in China, they could certainly offer it. But consider that every solder joint and component introduces more potential for failure. With that said, considering how many people dismiss LL due to lack of regulation, imagine the market that would open up to LL if they did offer regulation. They have the quality issue solved now. If they also offered regulation at prices equivalent to what they charge now, (and they could if they wanted), and especially if they dumped the AAA format in their Cree lights, then watch out lighting world, because LL would finally have totally unique lights that even the current LL poo-pooers would sit up and take notice of!
    Last edited by Turbo DV8; 12-14-2009 at 01:15 PM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 View Post
    imagine the market that would open up to LL if they did offer regulation.
    I have to say that my personal view is somewhat different (though I can only speak of what things are like in my area of Australia). Where I live, of all my friends, colleagues and family who own LED torches, none of them have ever heard of torch regulation or know of its effects (nor had I until I came here looking for info on a Fenix). None of them delve that deep into the workings of their torches. They, like me, made their decisions to buy based on price, brightness (or range), perceived feel of quality and decent runtime over an incadescent.

    To someone like me, decent runtime isn't how long it takes to get to 50% brightness in one go. It's how long the torch will remain bright enough to do the jobs I need it to do when used in dribs and drabs over the course of a week or two. In my case, I found myself changing my P7's batteries every three or so weeks and that runtime was fine by me, way better than my incandescent maglite and a third of the size and perfect to carry (too big to be easily dropped or lost and small enough that it didn't interfere with my activity).

    I have a fair few friends across some interesting occupations and in terms of the spectrum of user that I personally know who use LED torches, it includes law enforcement officers, people who search gaols for a living, customs officers searching ships (one of my old jobs before I retired, what fun), police rescue, farmers, mechanics, forestry commission rangers, electricians etc etc etc and plenty of ordinary people who like a torch on the shelf for when the power goes out. Most of the people I know in those roles would not know if their equipment has regulated output or not and a great many would use alkalines.

    I don't know anyone in real life in Australia (as oposed to internet people in those fields I might meet here) in any of those fields who has tested the brightness of their torches by doing anything other than shining it at a tree or wall or to test range by shining down into a long paddock or street. The torch either stays bright enough to do the job at hand often enough or for long enough or it doesn't.

    I'm not saying that just because I don't know them, that there aren't people out here concerned with regulation and "flat lines", just that they constitute a much smaller proportion of the buying market here than those who just want a bright, far reaching, solid looking torch. It's no acccident I'm sure, that the LedLenser torches look very much like Maglites and Maglites have a good reputation for quality in Australia so LedLenser might be helping themselves to a little ride on the back of those that paved the way to quality light.

    Certainly LedLenser is gaining traction in the Australian hunting market because our largest shooting organisation (the SSAA) has taken them on board and is now selling LedLEnser P7 torches with SSAA branding on the sides. No-one has ever mentioned publicly in any of the SSAA publications whether the P7's are regulated or not.

    I've gone a very long way about making a simple point but to get to the crux of what I am on about, what I'm saying is that in my experience at least, for the average "un-enlightened" buyer off the street (and I consider myself a permanent member of that group) regulation is a non event and having it would not alter LedLenser's marketing position in Australia by much because the thing holding LedLenser back in Australia is actually the price.

    When I say the price is holding them back, I don't mean the price in terms of what technology you get for your money.

    I mean the actual price level, about a hundred and ten aussie dollars here for P7. A hundred and ten bucks is considered an awful lot to pay for any torch, especially when one could get a 3 or 4 cell maglite for half that or can buy those little eight led 3xaaa torches at the auto place for eleven bucks.

    If the P7 price was dropped to around fifty bucks it would sell like hotcakes in Australia, regulation or no regulation. It would be even better if they could get it to run on AA's cos AAA's are more expensive out here.
    Last edited by JaguarDave-in-Oz; 12-14-2009 at 04:13 PM.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    That is a very thoughtful take on the topic. I can follow the reasoning easily and agree with essentially all of it. You did mention the steep price of LED Lenser. Please don't take the following as an insult. One angle to look at this is that LED Lenser is essentially cashing in on the ignorance of the masses, as you call them, by charging a premium price for an unregulated flashlight. I say "ignorant" because, as you said, the majority have no clue about regulation or it's benefits. It is ironic that the masses, the people most likely to use alkaline batteries, but are ignorant of regulation, are also the ones who stand to benefit the most from regulation! If your theory is correct that Coast makes unregulated lights because 99 out of 100 users wouldn't know the difference, and the masses will pay the steep price for it regardless, why should Coast add regulation? In that case, the small percentage who value regulation are being cheated out of a great light due to the ignorance of the masses. But it is not only those few who are being cheated.

    You lamented the over-pricing of LED Lenser. If those unaware of regulation's benefits were enlightened, there is no way LED Lenser could continue to get away with selling unregulated lights at their prices when people see that for the same price or less, they can get a nice regulated light. Either Coast would have to step up to the new competitiveness and offer regulation in their lights, or they would have to lower their price. Period.

    Until recently, Coast manufactured it's lights in Germany. Now they are manufactured in China, the price remains as high, and there is no reason for it other than Coast's lazy greed feeding on the ignorant masses. When they shifted production to China, they could have afforded to add a simple regulation circuit and still come out ahead, in addition to winning the added business of that small percentage which values regulation, not just LED Lenser's prism optics. If the masses would never notice or care, it wouldn't matter because not only did Coast's costs decline when they shifted production to China, Coast would also be attracting new customers who have been avoiding their product over LED Lenser's refusal to include a $3 regulation circuit. But LED Lenser finds it easier to quantify that extra $3 in their pocket than to anticipate the potential benefits of attracting a new segment of the market.

    I think, in the end, LED Lenser is strangling itself with it's shortsightedness. Those who value regulation avoid LED Lenser, and many who haven't a clue about it also avoid them because they are over-priced, regardless.

    I finally opened the P7 tonight and played with it, my Hokus Focus Cree, and the Husky 4 watt. I have many thoughts, and will post on them soon.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo DV8 View Post
    It is ironic that the masses, the people most likely to use alkaline batteries, but are ignorant of regulation, are also the ones who stand to benefit the most from regulation!
    Without discounting anything else of what you said above, since it all sounds quite reasonable to me, I do need some help understanding the idea behind what you say in the quoted bit.

    I'm not au fait with regulation at all though I do now have some supposedly regulated torches (Fenix L1D, TK20 and Nitecore D10 R2) but I did read on here a while back that the symptom of non regulation of a LedLenser manifests itself in the fact that the torch loses brightness from the moment it's first switched on with new batteries, a process that continues on a slippery slope (as opposed to a flat horizontal line) until the battery runs out. I assume what I read was correct since that's how I would expect such a torch to behave.

    My difficulty comes about when I try to understand a regualted torch's behaviour and I look in review threads at the runtime graphs for a number of AA and 2xAA regulated torches running at max on alkalines and the graphs seem to me to indicate the same symptoms, ie a long decline in brightness starting pretty much immediately the torch is first switched on, not the flat lines like most of the same torches show when run at max on NiMH etc.

    Do I read this right or am I approaching the graphs from the wrong angle? If I am reading them right then how do those differ from a P7 in operation (I've never seen a runtime graph for a P7 on alkalines, though I'd like to) and is regulation therefore something that's only seen operating fully when a torch is operated on NiMH or Lithiums?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Quote Originally Posted by JaguarDave-in-Oz View Post
    My difficulty comes about when I try to understand a regualted torch's behaviour and I look in review threads at the runtime graphs for a number of AA and 2xAA regulated torches running at max on alkalines and the graphs seem to me to indicate the same symptoms, ie a long decline in brightness starting pretty much immediately the torch is first switched on, not the flat lines like most of the same torches show when run at max on NiMH etc.
    Not all lights are regulated at low voltages, many 1xAA lights try to extract as much power as possible and because alkaline has a declining maximum power output, the runtime curve will look like a unregulated light.
    I often plot these voltage/current/light curves to see how the regulation work.
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    Default Re: LED Lenser (Coast) P7 REVIEW With Beamshots/Lux/Overall Output Readings

    Good Thread, Just letting you guys know that led lenser has just released the L7 its part of the Lightweight series of lights. Its a polycarbonate version of the P7, Runs on 3 AAA's Has 105 lumens and has the twist focus instead of the slide. Selling For $65.00 AUD,

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