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Thread: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

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    Flashaholic* gsxrac's Avatar
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    Default McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Well heres my question Im in the process of modifying my Surefire 6p LED. I just ordered a pocket clip and I would like a defender type bezel but cant find one =/ Also im about to order the Malkoff dropin and a McC2S sandwhich shoppe switch. First question is that on Malkoff's website it keeps saying "runtime on one CR123" Now does that mean itll only work with one because of course the 6P takes two stock (sorry if this is a dumb question)? and for the McC2S I would like to have a full blast (235+ lumens) and preferably like the lower mode to be around 20-30 lumens so which resistor am I going to want... 60 30 22 15 10? thank you for all the help in advance!!!

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    Flashaholic* gswitter's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Lighthound sells a few defferent pokey bezels. Some Malkoff models (M30*) are designed for a single cell, some (M60*) for two or three cells. You can estimate the McC2S low output by dividing the battery voltage by the resistor value to get the current, then lookup expected lumens for that current. For example, 2xCR123A: ~6.0v / 60ohm = ~100mA. Assuming this data for the XR-E Q5 is correct, and accounting for losses from the optic, probalby a little under 30 lumens. Edit: this example assumes 100mA is below the minimum input current the driver requires for regulated output, which appears to be true for my M60.
    Last edited by gswitter; 12-14-2008 at 11:48 PM.



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    Flashaholic* NoFair's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    With a M60 I'd go with a 60 ohm tailcap. Good light and not too bright while using 2 rechargeable cells.

    Sverre

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    Flashaholic* gsxrac's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Ok that makes sense. Now what if im not using rechargeables? I keep plenty SF spare batteries so I would probably just use those... And it sounds like both of you are telling me to go with the M60 vs. the M30 (that was another question I forgot to ask)

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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    well the m30 will only run on 1 cell, m60 2 cells like the 6p takes.

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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by choaticwhisper View Post
    well the m30 will only run on 1 cell, m60 2 cells like the 6p takes.
    or the M30 will run on two NiMh's. Use a three cell SF, or add an A19 to a two cell SF P, C series body. Also, one cell for the M30 can be a CR123 in a single cell body, or add a spacer to a 6P type light and run one CR123, or run a single Li-Ion such as 17670, or RCR123.

    Bill
    Last edited by Bullzeyebill; 12-15-2008 at 08:24 PM.

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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill View Post
    or the M30 will run on two NiMh's. Use a three cell SF, or add an A19 to a two cell SF P, C series body. Also, one cell for the M30 can be a CR123 in a single cell body, or add a spacer to a 6P type light and run one CR123, or run a single Li-Ion such as 17670, or RCR123.

    Bill
    Well, That's if you want to get technical.

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    Flashaholic* gsxrac's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    HAHA wow little over my head there. Ive just recently gotten into "modifying" flashlights Im used to going to the store (or the Snap-On man) and just buying something that I THOUGHT was bright from there but ever since I found this website I realized that my Surefire and Streamlights and Coast lights arent as powerful as I thought they were lol. But would I be right to assume that two CR123 SF batteries would work fine to power an M60 head ( http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/...&products_id=7 ) and also If I were to swap this out to a 9P 3 cell CR123 SF battery would that still work allright? It looks like it will as far as the voltage rating goes...

  9. #9

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Yes the M60 will work fine with 2 x CR123, 2 x RCR123 or 3 x CR123. The M30 is the single cell option which is what I recently chose because I want the run time of a 1 x 18650 plus rechargeability.

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    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Yep!! It's like this,

    The M30 is set up with a circuit that's designed to work best with batteries between 1.5-5 volts. It's a modified boost circuit, so the more voltage it gets the brighter it will be. Going over that will likely damage the LED by overdriving it too far.

    The M60 is a buck circuit, which means it takes a higher voltage and steps it down to what the LED can use. It operates between 3.8-9 volts. Under that, and it's directly powered by the battery (usually dim) and over that will fry the module. It's also much easier to use with a two stage tailcap, as the resistor will drop the voltage enough to dim it properly.

    As long as you stay within their voltage ranges, you can run any sort of battery setup you like.

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    Flashaholic* NoFair's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ricehaterboi View Post
    Ok that makes sense. Now what if im not using rechargeables? I keep plenty SF spare batteries so I would probably just use those... And it sounds like both of you are telling me to go with the M60 vs. the M30 (that was another question I forgot to ask)
    A 60 ohm tailcap and a M60 works great with normal cr123s as well. Low will be a bit lower, but not very much. High will be just as with rechargeables, but runtimes will be longer.

    With a M30 an a single Li-ion a 60 ohm tailcap gives you a lower low (maybe 2 lumen). 2 NiMH cells will give even lower low.

    You might want to go with a 30 ohm tailcap if you chose the M30.

    Sverre

  12. #12

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    NoFair, or anyone else that wants to chime in, I'm going to run a M30 on an 18650. What resitor should I order to get a ~60 lumen (anywhere in that ballpark is fine) low.

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    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Another benefit of the M30:

    If you use 3v battery it runs on less amp that make it equivalent to an M60L around 140Lumens.

    If you use 3.7v rechargeables it runs on more amp making it 1.2amp and 235lumens.

    I read this from another review here, can someone confirm this.

    I have a Surefire 3P and a bored out 6P that I use M30 and M30WF, but I can't tell if running on a single primary is dimmer then a rechargeable.
    Last edited by bigchelis; 12-16-2008 at 10:10 AM.
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    Another benefit of the M30:

    If you use 3v battery it runs on less amp that make it equivalent to an M60L around 140Lumens.

    If you use 3.7v rechargeables it runs on more amp making it 1.2amp and 235lumens.

    I read this from another review here, can someone confirm this.

    I have a Surefire 3P and a bored out 6P that I use M30 and M30WF, but I can't tell if running on a single primary is dimmer then a rechargeable.
    I have tried all the combo's with M30. It pulls just shy of 1 amp from battery using a CR123, and two NiMh's and compared to 18650 these two applications put out approximately 130+ lumens. This comparing 18650 output using bounce with lightmeter, same flashlight, same M30 module. (Disclaimer-This is not an IS measurement but a comparision of light output using a lightmeter and bounce and comparing the differrent lux readings on my lightmeter, and understanding that the M30 and M60 put out about the same amount of light at startup, about 230 lumens,using a SF 6P bezel) Pulls about 1.25 amps from a fully charged 18650.

    Bill

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    Flashaholic* gswitter's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Axion View Post
    NoFair, or anyone else that wants to chime in, I'm going to run a M30 on an 18650. What resitor should I order to get a ~60 lumen (anywhere in that ballpark is fine) low.
    Assuming the current M30 uses an XR-E Q5, 60 lumens will require ~200mA. 3.7v / 0.2A = 18.5ohm. So, go with 15ohm if you'd prefer a little more than 60 lumens, or the 22ohm is you'd prefer a little less.

    However, since the M30 uses a boost converter, the resistored low may not work.



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    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Thanks bullzeyebill. So, if you are using surefire non-rechargeables you have to check the resistor against a 130 lumen output max. If you run on rechargeables then assume a 230 max and calculate youre resistor off this output.

    Wow, this stuff can get pretty technical.
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  17. #17

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by gswitter View Post
    However, since the M30 uses a boost converter, the resistored low may not work.
    This is the part I'm wondering about. It sounds like the resistor will still work with the M30 but you have to get the current/voltage low enough that the boost circuit can't negate it's effect.

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    Flashaholic* NoFair's Avatar
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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Axion View Post
    This is the part I'm wondering about. It sounds like the resistor will still work with the M30 but you have to get the current/voltage low enough that the boost circuit can't negate it's effect.
    Works fine with a LumensFactory drop in that is single Li-ion only..

    Don't have a M30 yet, thinking of ordering a M30W after the Christmas postal frenzy is over.

    Sverre

  19. #19

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    The SureFire KL4 uses a boost board and it works fine with the McE2S.

  20. #20

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Which resitors are you guys using and what's you approximate output?

    Here's where I'm getting confused. If the 15/22 ohm resistors would give me 60 lumen +/- running direct drive, do I need to up the resistance to get the same results with the boost circuit or not?

  21. #21

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    I can't provide any specific hands-on data on the M30, but 60 ohms in a SureFire KL4 head provides a very low Low mode. I would say it is comparable to the lowest output from a Gladius, which I believe is about 8 lumens. In a SureFire L4 (using two AW 16340 Li-ion cells) with a Deal Extreme DX6090 drop-in (I have a TNC E2C adapter installed), a 60 ohm resistance gives a much brighter Low mode. Visually, it seems comparable to an incandescent SureFire 3P (30 lumens).

    Why not just get a couple of resistor PCBs, say 22 ohms and 60 ohms. They are only a few dollars each. If you can wait, I have an M30 on order and can try it in my modified L4, driving it with one 17670 cell.

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    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    I can't provide any specific hands-on data on the M30, but 60 ohms in a SureFire KL4 head provides a very low Low mode. I would say it is comparable to the lowest output from a Gladius, which I believe is about 8 lumens. In a SureFire L4 (using two AW 16340 Li-ion cells) with a Deal Extreme DX6090 drop-in (I have a TNC E2C adapter installed), a 60 ohm resistance gives a much brighter Low mode. Visually, it seems comparable to an incandescent SureFire 3P (30 lumens).

    Why not just get a couple of resistor PCBs, say 22 ohms and 60 ohms. They are only a few dollars each. If you can wait, I have an M30 on order and can try it in my modified L4, driving it with one 17670 cell.
    In the past I used the Mc2S 60 ohms with my KL4. Much dimmer using one 17670 than two CR123's. It works off the battery voltage only, driving the LED direct drive based on the voltage remaining in the battery.

    Bill

  23. #23

    Default Re: McC2S switch and Malkoff dropin for my SF... questions!!!

    Yes. to clarify, I would estimate 60 ohms gives a comparable low output in a KL4 vs original Gladius (not the SSC P4 upgraded version) when the KL4 is driven by one 16340 3.7V Li-ion. When driven by two 123A SureFire primary Li cells, the KL4 is brighter, but it is clearly less bright than my old SureFire 3P (which is rated at 30 lumens).

    Unfortunately, the Gladius variable brightness mode is of the infinite adjustment variety, so I can't really say at what level the 2x123A-driven KL4 head matches the Gladius. But I don't have to ramp up the Gladius that much to reach a comparable brightness level. It is clearly not at 60 lumens, which IMO is not much of a low mode. The original SureFire 6P was rated at about that level.

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