A Collection Of Runtime Graphs

[Cydonia]

That Mini-Mag run time graph is great.
But I wonder what happened to the SMJLED's?
Seems the consensus around here was that the Sandwich Shoppe version was better than the "other one". 30 hour run time on alkalines was a standard often quoted run time expectation. My Sandwiche Shoppe SMJLED modules draw around 120ma of current from 2AA (3000ma) alkaline cells.
This is in keeping with a run time estimate of close to 30 hours.
I don't see how they could fade out at 8 1/4 hours while drawing such a low current. Low batteries in the test Mag?
Or maybe the Sandwiche Shoppe and Lighthound SMJLED's got mixed up?
Getting a multimeter with DC current measuring capability was the best thing I ever did.
It clears up many a strange situation by giving concrete current draw numbers from which one can extrapolate a good rune time estimate.

[Illum]

[BigWaffles]

That Mini-Mag run time graph is great.
But I wonder what happened to the SMJLED's?
Seems the consensus around here was that the Sandwich Shoppe version was better than the "other one". 30 hour run time on alkalines was a standard often quoted run time expectation. My Sandwiche Shoppe SMJLED modules draw around 120ma of current from 2AA (3000ma) alkaline cells.
This is in keeping with a run time estimate of close to 30 hours.
I don't see how they could fade out at 8 1/4 hours while drawing such a low current. Low batteries in the test Mag?
Or maybe the Sandwiche Shoppe and Lighthound SMJLED's got mixed up?
Getting a multimeter with DC current measuring capability was the best thing I ever did.
It clears up many a strange situation by giving concrete current draw numbers from which one can extrapolate a good rune time estimate.

Cydonia,

Not sure what happened with the SMJLEDs. From reading other posts, I was expecting great runtime. The Lighthound version did have good runtime (if you ignore the initial 2hr warmup time).

I'm pretty sure they didn't get mixed up with the Sandwich Shoppe version as I ordered 2 of the lighthound versions first and then ordered the Sandwich Shoppe version after getting the screwy graph. I did test 2 of each version in 2 different Mini-Mag hosts and the graphs were very close. Not sure what to make of it.

Oh, well. Plenty of other drop-ins to play with.


C.P.T.

[BigWaffles]

Ok. Here is the second Terralux graph. This is the Terralux TLE-1F drop-in with a 3D Maglite host on Energizer Alkalines.



Output is comparable to the Mag LED but with a much longer runtime and flatter curve.

This is this drop-in here:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/tle-1f.html

I've got the Niteize 1W LED on the tester now. Should have the graph in a day or so.


C.P.T.

[Cydonia]

About 35 hours on the TLE-1F till it takes the "big plunge".
The Nite Ize 10mm did about 90 hours till "the big plunge".
A rough guesstimate says that the TLE-1F draws about 3 times the current of the 10mm?
So... is the TLE-1F that much brighter than the 10mm Nite Ize?
How bright does it seem to you - as compared to other lights?
Does this module get very hot to the touch?

It's going to be interesting to see if the Nite ize "TLE-1F clone" has the same run time characteristics! I'm betting it is the exact same module!

[22hornet]

Hello,
well it seems to be brighter: the Nite-Ize 10mm does about 800-900, while the TLE-1 does 2000. The TLE-1 also seems much better than the Maglite Drop-in, both in brightness as in runtime.

Seems we all need one, or several .
I'm going to order some to brighten up my life It even sells at a very attractive price.
I think it is both strange and a pity this drop-in got so little attention over here. Thanks to this thread some old questions are finally answered and for this, Bigwaffles deserves a statue.

Kind regards,
Joris

[PCC]

Looking at the graphs I have made the following observations:

The MagLED module makes about 4650 Lux then quickly drops to about 2500 Lux in half an hour. After 8.5 hours at 2500 Lux it starts to drop off slowly and it takes 42.75 total hours to reach 1000 Lux from the start of the test.

The Nite-Ize 10mm bulb starts at 1875 Lux then drops to 1000 Lux in 6.5 hours.

The Terralux starts at 2400 Lux then drops to 1000 Lux in about 37 hours.

The 10mm drop-in will have light for a longer time since it is just slowly dimming after some rediculous amount of time but for usable light it seems that the MagLED is the one to get. Add to this that you can change the emitter fairly easily for an SSC P4, which will just about double the output from this drop-in and it seems like the logical choice.

I'd love to see the three graphs (plus the remaining Nite-Ize drop-in) on one graph as a comparison.

Having said all that I'm probably getting the Nite-Ize 1W drop-in for one of my MagLites.

[jasonsmaglites]

big waffles, can we get a graph of all the d size dropins together so we can more directly compare. thanks for turning us on to the 1watt terralux. i had no idea is was such a good lumens to runtime deal.

[BigWaffles]

About 35 hours on the TLE-1F till it takes the "big plunge".
The Nite Ize 10mm did about 90 hours till "the big plunge".
A rough guesstimate says that the TLE-1F draws about 3 times the current of the 10mm?
So... is the TLE-1F that much brighter than the 10mm Nite Ize?
How bright does it seem to you - as compared to other lights?
Does this module get very hot to the touch?

It's going to be interesting to see if the Nite ize "TLE-1F clone" has the same run time characteristics! I'm betting it is the exact same module!

Cydonia,

The Terralux TLE-1F seems about twice as bright as the Niteize 10mm. The data show this as well (200Lux vs 920Lux). As far as heat, after 5-10 min I could hold my finger on the Terralux and it was barely warm.

Looking at the graphs I have made the following observations:

The MagLED module makes about 4650 Lux then quickly drops to about 2500 Lux in half an hour. After 8.5 hours at 2500 Lux it starts to drop off slowly and it takes 42.75 total hours to reach 1000 Lux from the start of the test.

The Nite-Ize 10mm bulb starts at 1875 Lux then drops to 1000 Lux in 6.5 hours.

The Terralux starts at 2400 Lux then drops to 1000 Lux in about 37 hours.

The 10mm drop-in will have light for a longer time since it is just slowly dimming after some rediculous amount of time but for usable light it seems that the MagLED is the one to get. Add to this that you can change the emitter fairly easily for an SSC P4, which will just about double the output from this drop-in and it seems like the logical choice.

I'd love to see the three graphs (plus the remaining Nite-Ize drop-in) on one graph as a comparison.

Having said all that I'm probably getting the Nite-Ize 1W drop-in for one of my MagLites.

PCC,

Not sure about your numbers on the Niteize 10mm. It starts at 920Lux, drops to 900Lux in 32hrs, 800Lux at 70hrs and then falls off at 92hrs.

As far as the Mag LED being the one to get, I'm betting the Niteize 1W is going to beat it. It's been running for 24hrs and is still putting out over 2800Lux. It'll be interesting to see how long it will run.

big waffles, can we get a graph of all the d size dropins together so we can more directly compare. thanks for turning us on to the 1watt terralux. i had no idea is was such a good lumens to runtime deal.

PCC/Jasonmaglites,

Yes, when the Niteize 1W finishes I'll post that graph as well as a compilation of all the 3D Mag drop-ins that i've tested. I'll put it in the same format as the Mini-Mag compilation graph.

So far here is how I rate the beams (subjective, I know):

Mag LED - Brightest and harshest. This has the whitest/harshest beam and is very good for illumination. Few shadows.

Terralux TLE-1F - Not as white as the Mag LED. Seemed a bit yellower/softer. Good illumination.

Niteze 10mm - Blue, almost to purple, lots of shadows. Good for around the house. Makes a good tailcap backup.

More to follow.


C.P.T.

[BigWaffles]

Ok, here is the final drop-in I have for the 3D Mag. This is the Niteize 1W LED running on Energizer Alkalines.



As you can see, very good regulation and output. Unfortunately, it only runs 28.5hrs before dropping off . I think this has the Mag LED beat. Better regulation, higher overall output and good runtime.


C.P.T.

[BigWaffles]

By request, here is a compilation graph for the 3D Mag drop-ins I've tested. I didn't include the Niteize 10mm as it's insane runtime would have skewed the graph.



Here's my impressions of the beams of each one:

Mag LED - Brightest and harshest. This has the whitest/harshest beam and is very good for illumination with few shadows. It falls off quickly within the first 30min. The best if you use your light in short bursts (5-10min) at a time.

Niteize 1W - Not as white as the Mag LED. Seemes a bit yellower/softer, although not as yellow as the TLE-1F. Seems a bit dimmer than the Mag LED, although the LUX readings say otherwise. With its good output, I'll probably switch my Mag 3Ds to this drop-in for around the house.

Terralux TLE-1F - A bit yellower/softer than the Niteize 1W. Good illumination/runtime if you need the lower output.

Hopefully this info is useful, I've had a lot of fun gathering it.

If anyone is interested, my Malkof M60LL came in yesterday and I will be testing it today in the 6P and G3L.

Later.


C.P.T.

[Cydonia]

The Nite Ize rules them all


I thought it would be the exact same module as the TerraLux TLE-1F!
I was totally wrong again... this thing came in under the radar! Big output and great run time all in one.

*mad scramble to order a few*

Run time graphs are legendary. Quickly right click save as'd!

Is that a Luxeon I on that Nite Ize module?

[Bullzeyebill]

Was thinking that we could put some relative lumen values to the lux numbers that BigWaffles has presented here. MrGman tested the 6PLED at 82 lumens, and LSI labs, for the CPF Lightmeter Benchmark Passaround, after two minutes runtime, tested the A2 in an Integrated Sphere at 68 luumens with out the LEDs. I am not talking absolute lumen numbers here, just approximations. One could work out somewhat of a formula such as Quickbeam did at FlashlightReviews.com.

Bill

[jaundice]

Big Waffles;

I really want to thank you (again) for all the work you're doing on this thread. This thread has really shed some light (pun intended) on some questions I've had about mag lite drop-ins.

I realize how expensive this can be, ordering all the drop-ins and using all the batteries. To that end I'd like to donate a few dollars, at least, to offset the cost. Do you have a paypal address where I can send some cash to defray expenses? I know that I couldn't afford to buy 10+ drop-ins and batteries just to test.

Alternately, I would be happy to buy a drop-in off of you to offset the cost. I figure you probably don't need so many. Of course, you'd probably prefer to keep the better ones, but let me know if you want to part with one of the others. I'd be happy to pay you what you have into them.

I must admit that I'm doing this for purely selfish reasons. The more money you can recycle out of your runtime graph project, the more you'll do!

-John

[Illum]

hmmm....time to go buy a could nite-ize 1Ws

thats a beautiful regulation curve giving the size of the heatsink to work with

[PCC]

PCC,

Not sure about your numbers on the Niteize 10mm. It starts at 920Lux, drops to 900Lux in 32hrs, 800Lux at 70hrs and then falls off at 92hrs.

As far as the Mag LED being the one to get, I'm betting the Niteize 1W is going to beat it. It's been running for 24hrs and is still putting out over 2800Lux. It'll be interesting to see how long it will run.


PCC/Jasonmaglites,

Yes, when the Niteize 1W finishes I'll post that graph as well as a compilation of all the 3D Mag drop-ins that i've tested. I'll put it in the same format as the Mini-Mag compilation graph.

So far here is how I rate the beams (subjective, I know):

Mag LED - Brightest and harshest. This has the whitest/harshest beam and is very good for illumination. Few shadows.

Terralux TLE-1F - Not as white as the Mag LED. Seemed a bit yellower/softer. Good illumination.

Niteze 10mm - Blue, almost to purple, lots of shadows. Good for around the house. Makes a good tailcap backup.

More to follow.


C.P.T.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

As far as the 1875 lux number, I was trying to read the graph but I guess my eyes are not as good as they used to be and I saw something other than what was there. My bad!

Thanks for the subjective summary of the different drop-ins. Your "subjective" is better than my guess any day. I already had my eye on the Nite-Ize 1 watt drop-in but was waiting for your test to complete before committing to it. Now that you've posted the results, I'm going to pick up a few ASAP!

With regards to the MagLED drop-in, the one advantage that it has is that it can be modified by swapping the emitter. This can be done fairly easily. I will not try to tear apart the Nite-Ize one to see if it is modifyable but will retrofit a few PR flange incandescent flashlights I have that are waiting for the appropriate upgrade to come along. The Nite-Ize one seems to be it.

I may pick up a few 10mm Nite-Ize ones, too, for the extended run times just in case we get "the big one" (earthquake country here).

[BigWaffles]

...Is that a Luxeon I on that Nite Ize module?

No, I'm just happy to be here (sorry, couldn't resist). I'm really not sure. Does anyone know how to tell just by looking?

Big Waffles;

I really want to thank you (again) for all the work you're doing on this thread. This thread has really shed some light (pun intended) on some questions I've had about mag lite drop-ins.

I realize how expensive this can be, ordering all the drop-ins and using all the batteries. To that end I'd like to donate a few dollars, at least, to offset the cost. Do you have a paypal address where I can send some cash to defray expenses? I know that I couldn't afford to buy 10+ drop-ins and batteries just to test.

Alternately, I would be happy to buy a drop-in off of you to offset the cost. I figure you probably don't need so many. Of course, you'd probably prefer to keep the better ones, but let me know if you want to part with one of the others. I'd be happy to pay you what you have into them.

I must admit that I'm doing this for purely selfish reasons. The more money you can recycle out of your runtime graph project, the more you'll do!

-John

jaundice,

You're quite welcome for the graphs, they're a lot of fun to do. As far as expenses, batteries are cheap and the drop-ins aren't too bad. I'm using the Mag LEDs and the Niteizes (is that a word?). If you are interested in 2 slightly used Terraluxes for the 3D Maglite, PM me and we can work something out. And thanks for the support.


C.P.T.

[BigWaffles]

So, a couple of weeks ago I got bitten by the Malkoff bug. I've been reading about them for a while and finally decided to get one to see what the fuss was about. I have to admit, I was quite impressed. I purchased the Malkoff M60LL as it was the closest to the Surefire P60L module that I really liked. I received it late last week and finally finished the runtime tests. Here is what I found.

This is the Malkoff M60LL in a Surefire 6P with Surefire primaries.



18hrs of runtime. Very nice for the level of output that you get.


C.P.T.

[PCC]

No, I'm just happy to be here (sorry, couldn't resist). I'm really not sure. Does anyone know how to tell just by looking?

C.P.T.

I recall seeing a post around here that has pictures of the various popular LEDs so that you can try to identify them visually but I've not been able to find it doing searches here. I'm sure someone will chime in and reply with a link.

My recollection is that the Luxeon emitter has a hexagonal shaped surround to it around the actual emitter. Crees have a square box around the emitter with a horizontal bar running across (looks like a box sitting on the ground).

I can take pictures of a few different emitters I have here if you want to see them.

[BigWaffles]

Just for comparison, I decided to re-run the test in a Surefire G3L. This is the Malkoff M60LL in a Surefire G3L on Surefire primaries.



Runtime dropped to 13.5hrs but the output jumped by 3000Lux over the 6P. This one's definately a keeper.


C.P.T.

[BigWaffles]

Here's a compilation graph (these sure are cool) showing the differences between the Surefire 6P & G3L hosts and the Surefire P60L and Malkoff M60LL modules. All tests were run on Surefire primaries.



Strictly for runtime, Malkoff hit a homerun with this drop-in. 18hrs in a 6P and 13.5hrs in the G3L with very good regulation.

As far as the beams go, the difference between the 6P with the P60L and the M60LL was quite noticable. There is over 2000Lux difference and it shows. On the other hand, the difference between the two modules was hardly noticeable on the G3L. The P60L had a little more spill than the M60LL but the hotspots were identical.

I really liked the Surefire P60L in my G3L but I'm completely sold on the Malkoff M60LL. Better output and over twice the runtime. Unfortunately, now that I have the low power/long running module I'm going to have to get a regular M60 for high power to balance it out.

Does anybody else have one flashlight that they swap heads/drop-ins as needed or is it just easier to have multiple flashlights each with a deadicated module? Thanks.


C.P.T.

[BigWaffles]

I recall seeing a post around here that has pictures of the various popular LEDs so that you can try to identify them visually but I've not been able to find it doing searches here. I'm sure someone will chime in and reply with a link.

My recollection is that the Luxeon emitter has a hexagonal shaped surround to it around the actual emitter. Crees have a square box around the emitter with a horizontal bar running across (looks like a box sitting on the ground).

I can take pictures of a few different emitters I have here if you want to see them.

PCC,

That will help. I can also take a picture of the Terralux and the Niteize and post them. If we post enough pictures, someone should be able to identy the emitters in question. Thanks.


C.P.T.

[jaundice]

Big Waffles;

In the last month or so, I've picked up the whole stable of Malkoff drop-ins. I grabbed an M60L used on the marketplace, and that prompted me to get an M60 and M60LL new from Malkoff devices. Then, I unexpectedly picked up an M30 from another memeber of the forum.

I use dedicated G-series lights for hosts. Love the combo. I have the M60 in a G3 with an aluminum bezel, and the M60L and LL in plain G2 nitrolon lights (with nitrolon bezels). I'm waiting on a surefire 6pl for a host for my M30.

The lights are cheap, and I already had a few, so I didn't worry about getting one host for each drop-in. I had a thread a while back asking if there's anything better than a malkoff plus G2. Although many people suggested cheaper hosts, the consensus fundamentally was no.

That thread suggested that a great, cheap host is a Solarforce L2 host from Lighthound (currently sold out, but they're expecting more in 2 weeks). You get a complete light, minus lamp and batteries, for $24.

One thing I find interesting on this forum is that there's some debate on the merits of the G2 vs metal counterparts. The gist is that many people, me included, like the fact that in cold weather the nitrolon lights are much more comfortable to hold. I noticed that most of the people that enjoyed this feature are from warmer climates, and people from Chicago and Minnesota dismissed this out of hand. I realized that in places like California, people never wear gloves, even on the coldest night of the year (above freezing), whereas people in colder climates probably wear gloves more often, and their perception of what's cold is different.

A final question. Chevrofreak ran runtimes for the P60L in both the G2 (full nitrolon) and the 6P, and apparently the P60L has a built in temperature control that throttles down the LED when heat builds up in plastic lights. Thus, the output in the G2 is lower, but overall runtime is longer than the 6P. This has me wondering if that's the case with Malkoff M60L and LL, which are spec'd to run in plastic lights. The M60, of course, isn't spec'd to run in plastic lights for more than 15 minutes without damage to the module. The word here on CPF is that Gene Malkoff considers an aluminum bezeled G2 or G3 to be a metal light for M60.

So, will the M60L or LL run lower, but longer, is a nitrolon bezeled G2/G3? Does anyone know?

-John

[Bullzeyebill]

Gene gets longer runtimes with his L and LL's because they run at lower current to the LED. SF's G2L with the Nitralon bezel runs longer because the P60L circuit reduces the current to the LED when the LED gets hot. So the SF P60L has variable output/runtime based on the temperature of the LED.

Bill

[Bullzeyebill]

BigWaffles, thanks for the Malkoff 60LL runtimes. I believe this is a first, the first graphed runtime tests of any Malkoff module posted on CPF. Maybe someone will send you the M60, and M60L for testing. The runtime is much flatter than I would have expected, and it is interesting how the output is boosted by the addition of one CR123 in the G3L Malkoff graph, boosted but still flat till near the end. If the P6L has been tested at 80 lumens in an IS, then the M60LL must be well over 100 lumens when run in the G3L, and probably about 60 lumens in the 6P. Facinating.

Bill

[Alan B]

Excellent data Thanks for your effort

I did not look at this thread for a long time due to the title. You may want to change the title now that you are beyond "wanting to post runtime graphs" to "a collection of runtime graphs" or some such.

To do this - edit the first post in the thread and select the "advanced" feature to get at the title. It is under your control there.

[PCC]

PCC,

That will help. I can also take a picture of the Terralux and the Niteize and post them. If we post enough pictures, someone should be able to identy the emitters in question. Thanks.

C.P.T.

Here are a few pictures that I just took. I had to break out the macro gear to get these shots.

SSC P4 (supposed to be U-bin)


SSC P7 (not sure about the bin)


Luxeon III (I think)


Cree XR-E (unknown bin)

[Illum]

hmm, you'd think the 6P would have more heatsinking mass than that of the G2
Wonder why the Malkoff behaved so differently between 800 and 1000 minutes(?)

[Bullzeyebill]

hmm, you'd think the 6P would have more heatsinking mass than that of the G2
Wonder why the Malkoff behaved so differently between 800 and 1000 minutes(?)

It's a G3L, and additional battery has given it boost. The current is so low that there are no heat issues, so does not need metal mass for heatsinking.

The circuit is trying to regulate. Apparently the nature of Gene's circuits for M60's

Bill

[BigWaffles]

Big Waffles;
... The M60, of course, isn't spec'd to run in plastic lights for more than 15 minutes without damage to the module. The word here on CPF is that Gene Malkoff considers an aluminum bezeled G2 or G3 to be a metal light for M60.

So, will the M60L or LL run lower, but longer, is a nitrolon bezeled G2/G3? Does anyone know?

-John

Now I'm curious. I have a plain G2 and can run another test later this week, that would tell if there is any thermal regulation going on.

You say that the M60 can't run for more than 15min without damage to the module. Would this apply to the M60LL in a plain G2? I don't want to burn up my new Malkoff. Thanks.

Here are a few pictures that I just took. I had to break out the macro gear to get these shots...

Unfortunately I don't have the equipment to take such nice closeups of the two drop-ins. I try to get a close shot and the camera won't focus. Oh, well.

Just by looking, the Terralux TLE-1F has a round yellow emitter with two wires running out of opposite sides (4 wires total). The Niteize 1W looks similar to your Cree XR-E (square yellow emitter) but the 4 wires run directly into the yellow emitter, not a base. Not very good descriptions, I know. I'll keep trying with the camera.


C.P.T.