Titanium LSD Batteries Not Holding Up

Curly

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This might sound odd, but then again maybe others have found the same to be true for them.

Scenario:
I use Titanium batteries for Sylvania 4AA Lanterns (bone stock) all summer while camping. We have 4 of them. During the day we charge all 16 batteries using two MAHA401 chargers from a 12 volt source. Pop the batteries into the lanterns for night lighting. then leave two on low all night long. They get used almost every week.

I noticed after about 3 - 5 recharges that a few of the batteries had their shrink wrap labels beginning to shrink off or curl. The lights would go dead only 2 or 3 hours after turning them on.

Week to week, there wasn't enough charge left in them to power the lights more than a few minutes if not recharged immediately before use. Yes, they were recharged prior to packing up camp the week before.

So I started bringing along my good old 2500mh NiMh batteries. Some PowerX some Titanium. They performed the very same duty flawlessly and they were already 2 or so years old and went through many many recharge cycles on the same charger.

This comming summer I don't know what to do. The NiMh batteries are too fat or something for the lanterns so they take some fussing to get going. There's some connection issue with the battery holder I think.

So, any theories about the low self discharge in lantern situation?
 

Black Rose

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Here's my guess after only one cup of caffeine :D

Sounds like you may have had some cells miss their termination.
That would result in excess heat in the cells, which in turn could cause the wrapper to shrink & curl if they got really hot.
Excess heat can damage batteries, which could affect their LSD capability.

You said you were using the Maha 401 chargers powered by a 12V power source. Were you using a power inverter or car adapter?
 

Mr Happy

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I noticed after about 3 - 5 recharges that a few of the batteries had their shrink wrap labels beginning to shrink off or curl. The lights would go dead only 2 or 3 hours after turning them on.
This shrinking of the labels didn't seem odd to you? It seems like a sign that the batteries were getting much too hot during charging. I do seem to recall the C401FS having a reputation for cooking batteries in fast mode. Do you use fast mode or slow mode?

I can see two possible causes here. One is the charger. The other is over-discharging the batteries. You mention leaving them running all night. It's possible that this is running batteries flat, which is something you must never do to NiMH in a multi-cell application. What can happen is that the first battery to run down gets reverse polarized by the other battery and damaged as a result. When this damaged battery is recharged it overheats and gets damaged some more. The cycle continues and the damage is compounded.

If you have other batteries that seem to work better I'd say use those instead, but do take care of them as there is a possibility of them eventually failing in the same way too.
 

Curly

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Ah, yes the shrinking did get my attention.

Charged from truck not power supply. 12v outlet. 2 chargers as well. Results are no different between them.

One charger I have had for 4 years or so and has been working fine right along. All my old batteries, some 6 or 7 years old, work just fine and don't heat up much when charging. I always use fast mode.

PowerX NiMh even my old ones worked fine, and still do being charged and powering the lanterns. The LSD batteries just don't cut it. Even the new replacements did the same thing after a couple cycles.

I just think the newer batteries can't hack it. That "fast" charger still takes 1 hour or more... I can use my constant current charger and dump a fixed 3 amp rate at a set of 4 (my NiMh) to peak in less than 15 minutes. I've done that over and over and over again for years to a different set used in the kids toys. They still work fine.
 

Mr Happy

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Well I hate to be tempting fate here, but I have to say that Eneloop is the LSD battery everyone raves about around these parts, not Titanium. Could it simply be that the Titanium LSD cells don't make the grade as good batteries?
 

45/70

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There does not seem to be any question that the Titanium cells are suffering damage. The question is, when and how?

I envision one possible scenario with the information Curly has provided. It is well known that the higher capacity NiMh cells, for the most part, hold their charge well right after coming off the charger. In this scenario, we have 2100mAh LSD cells pitted against 2500mAh cells. This presents the possibility of the 2500's being able to last all night in the lanterns, with out any of the 4 cells voltages dropping below 1.0 Volt, or worse, one or more cells dropping so low that reverse charging occurs.

It could be that the 2100's are not so lucky in this situation, and one or both of the above events are occurring. This would explain the 2100's heating up during charging, as they would have suffered some damage or, if reverse charged one or more times, been severely damaged. In either event, the cells would have a very short useful life.

Dave

EDIT: corrected Titanium capacity, was thinking of their high discharge version. Still......
 
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