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Thread: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

  1. #841
    Flashaholic* Wiggle's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    So many P60 dropins to choose from. Here's what I'd like:
    -Powered well by 18650 but some kind of tapering or warning before dead cell.
    -2 or 3 mode Highest mode hopefully 250+ OTF, low not beyond 30 lumens.
    -Mode memory
    -Medium throw
    -Fast "memory setting", like if I shut the light off and turn it on 1 second later I want the memory mode, not the next one.
    -Neutral tint would be a nice bonus

    I'm thinking of the Lumens Factory XP-G but it's only driven at 1A and I'm not sure if it will stay in regulation long on 18650.

  2. #842
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Sounds like a nice set of features. I'm also thinking of the Lumens Factory XPG 3 mode, primarily because it is towards the neutral white tint, reasonable price, and because it is driven at 1 amp rather than pushing things at 1.5 amp like some of the other available modules.

    My fear with the 1.5 amp modules is that they will not provide sufficient runtime on high and that they might tend to run a bit too hot.

    What I've found with the DX XPG (which is supposed to be driven at 1 amp) is that it is plenty bright (at least for me), runs well on one 18650 with not much, if any, noticeable difference in brightness from when it's driven by two 18350's (i.e., at 7.4 volts), that it gets hot (on high) but not too hot, and that it doesn't provide all that much run time on high, which causes me to think that I would find something driven at a higher current to provide even less runtime and therefore be less desirable.

    But I've not yet had an opportunity to even try an XPG module driven at more than 1 amp. (assuming the DX module's listed specs are accurate), so I don't really know how accurate my assumptions are and how much the runtime I'm now seeing on high with a 1 amp module would be reduced in a module that is driven harder.

    Edit/Update: I'm finding the DX XPG module is a bit more consistently brighter when powered by two 18350's vs one 18650 (~7.4 volts vs 3.7 volts). Both the DX XPG module and the Ultrafire 18350's (unprotected) from KD are still performing great so far.
    Last edited by pae77; 08-08-2010 at 11:48 PM.
    Various old Fenix models; Zebralight H501w_SC50w+_SC600W; LiteFlux_LF2XT, various Solarforce with XM-L drop-ins.

  3. #843
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Dereelight 3SD XRE-R2 WG
    CL1H V4
    1 x AW 18650 2600mAh @ 4.15V off charger
    Left on High mode (OTF lumens???)
    Light wrapped w/ ice pack, not that it needed it, I think
    2 hrs flat before drop-in low voltage protection kicked in and light started blinking
    Cell measured 3.42V at rest 20mins afterwards

    Note to self: keep runtime around 90mins so as not to over-discharge cell again.

    Very satisfied.

    PWM, if that's what it uses for the medium and low modes, is not noticeable to me.

    Does anyone know if this drop-in has a buck/boost circuit or just a very efficient buck circuit?
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  4. #844

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quick Q: MR-C or R2 for better throw at over 250lm?
    I'm guessing R2? I need a cheap, smooth reflector drop-in to put in a p60 host to throw about 80-100m for rabbiting, so about 250lm actual output, high + low modes...anyone have any ideas?
    Last edited by Manual Man; 08-13-2010 at 02:16 AM.

  5. #845
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manual Man View Post
    Quick Q: MR-C or R2 for better throw at over 250lm?
    I'm guessing R2? I need a cheap, smooth reflector drop-in to put in a p60 host to throw about 80-100m for rabbiting, so about 250lm actual output, high + low modes...anyone have any ideas?
    The Solarforce 3 mode low voltage drop in is still good , as are the 5 mode ones , but if you can live without strobe and SOS , the 3 mode is a good choice .

    Or you may consider a dedicated thrower .

  6. #846
    Flashaholic* Wiggle's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Just got in my Lumens Factory 3-mode XP-G 3.6-13V drop in. Hard to provide impressions yet, I was getting a weird problem when running on 2 x 16340, output was dropping fast, one cell getting hot and dropping voltage fast. I think the internal impedance of that cell is out of hand, I'll be disposing it before it gets me in trouble. I tried one 17670 and output looks good. Not sure if it can compete with the 350 OTF drop ins I see posted, it seems very close to my Quark on 14500 (about 208 OTF), but better throw. I'll know later when it's really dark how it stacks up.

  7. #847
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Interested in hearing how that Lumens Factory XPG drop in works out. I like that it's more towards a neutral white tint than most of the others.

    For my XPG drop in (a lowly cool white DX one), I've been using a pair of 18350's in a Solarforce host that's designed to take 18650 cells so it can handle the larger diameter. They provide better capacity than the smaller diameter 16340 cells, but the downside is they aren't protected.
    Various old Fenix models; Zebralight H501w_SC50w+_SC600W; LiteFlux_LF2XT, various Solarforce with XM-L drop-ins.

  8. #848
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    My Solarforce L2 bezel gets pretty warm running a Dereelight R2, up to 110 F measured by an IR thermometer. The heat feels to be concentrated at the head and is conducted down along the body towards the tailcap.

    After wrapping the drop-in with foil, I notice the head is much cooler around 75-80 F; in fact the entire light is much cooler. Something doesn't feel right. Where has all the heat gone?
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  9. #849
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Midnight the light showed good heat sinking before you wrapped it with foil....if it is getting hot all over this means it is making good contact with the heat sinking and pretty much doing what it is supposed to do.

    If the light is now not getting hot you have changed the surface area of the heat sinking path....in other words the heat is not getting out to the body and this is usually a bad thing. The aluminum foil probably made gaps in between the body and light engine and air does not conduct heat well. I may be incorrect however do believe this is the problem.
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  10. #850
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop View Post
    Midnight the light showed good heat sinking before you wrapped it with foil....if it is getting hot all over this means it is making good contact with the heat sinking and pretty much doing what it is supposed to do.

    If the light is now not getting hot you have changed the surface area of the heat sinking path....in other words the heat is not getting out to the body and this is usually a bad thing. The aluminum foil probably made gaps in between the body and light engine and air does not conduct heat well. I may be incorrect however do believe this is the problem.
    What is the conduction path I wonder? My drop-in requires an outter spring, and there appears to be considerable wiggle room between the drop-in and the inner walls of the socket.

    Without the foil wrap, does the heat go from the brass pill to the outter spring and the reflector, with the former subsequently conducted to the body and the latter to the bezel?

    I can't imagine how there can be more gaps with the foil wrap. The foil appears to create a snug fit between the reflector and the inner wall of the socket? Maybe that increases the amount of heat conducted to the body and decreases the amount conducted to the bezel?

    Thanks.
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  11. #851
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
    My Solarforce L2 bezel gets pretty warm running a Dereelight R2, up to 110 F measured by an IR thermometer. The heat feels to be concentrated at the head and is conducted down along the body towards the tailcap.

    After wrapping the drop-in with foil, I notice the head is much cooler around 75-80 F; in fact the entire light is much cooler. Something doesn't feel right. Where has all the heat gone?
    Possibly ... Before it was smoking hot as it was not heatsinked well , so more heat in pill = more heat to body ..

    Now that its heatsinked , the pill does not get as hot , so the light does not get as hot [ one possibility ]

    If it was poorly wrapped [ the pill ] you could be now insulating it [ to much air ] and cooking the emitter [ Possibly ]

    I get foil , wrap it into several layers , [ right width ] is then flattened to get as much air out as possible ... Now wrap the foil tightly and neatly around the pill ...

    The n it needs to be fitted to the light , a nice firm fit ..
    I find I usually have too much foil on the pill and it wont go in , so I remove about 1inch at a time , until I get a firm fit [ light crush fit ] , this will push out more air from between the layers of foil ...


  12. #852
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by old4570 View Post
    ...

    I get foil , wrap it into several layers , [ right width ] is then flattened to get as much air out as possible ... Now wrap the foil tightly and neatly around the pill ...
    I wrap around only at the reflector, not down to the brass pill. Perhaps that's the problem? Do I twist the outer spring onto the pill and then wrap the foil down to it or wrap the pill down to the threads first and then fit the outer spring over the foil?

    The n it needs to be fitted to the light , a nice firm fit ..
    I find I usually have too much foil on the pill and it wont go in , so I remove about 1inch at a time , until I get a firm fit [ light crush fit ] , this will push out more air from between the layers of foil ...
    This is exactly what I did.

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  13. #853

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Is there any chance of a short if the foil touches the electrically conductive sides of the LED module.
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  14. #854
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Don't know if I'm doing it correctly but I wrap starting a bit below the top of the reflector, over and around the outer spring, iirc. The hottest point is going to be level with the emitter, or so I would think. You want the foil to be covering the area level with the emitter and below that area as well. At least that's what I think.
    Last edited by pae77; 08-21-2010 at 09:18 PM.
    Various old Fenix models; Zebralight H501w_SC50w+_SC600W; LiteFlux_LF2XT, various Solarforce with XM-L drop-ins.

  15. #855
    Flashaholic* Wiggle's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by red02 View Post
    Is there any chance of a short if the foil touches the electrically conductive sides of the LED module.
    Shouldn't be, just keep it away from the small center spring.

  16. #856
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    In case anyone is wondering how the XPG can look in a P60 SMO, here are some shots of a NB XPG R4 5000K in a Dereelight SMO, compared to one in one of NB's stock LOP. Please note the SMO is in a Solarforce L2 and the LOP is in a Dereelight CL1H V4, whose head yields relatively more spill because the L2 has the strike bezel. The exposure is lowered to accentuate the hotsposts, so I don't think the difference in the spill beams come into play. As for the tints, there isn't a WB setting on my cheap camera that reflects what I see. Then again, individual experiences may vary. Oh, yeah, the wall is not white, but more like beige with a hint of tan.

    Dereelight SMO (L), Stock LOP (R)



    Tilt your head or screen a bit to view the Dereelight beamshot at an angle and you may be able to see the defined hotspot.

    Dereelight SMO (L), Stock LOP (R)



    The last two pics, as you can see, don't have the same amount of zoom, no tripod, but the difference in the beams is still obvious.

    IMHO, the differences are very noticeable. The Dereelight SMO really gathers the light into the hotspot, but the trade-off is a dimmer spill. For up to 30 feet, I prefer the beam of the stock LOP for more flooding. Beyond that the extra throw from the SMO comes in handy.

    The SMO does yield some rings, but at least there is no donut hole. The rings are not noticeable beyond 30 feet.
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  17. #857
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Fit the neg outer spring , then wrap ...

    I try to get it flush with the copper pill , or just a little shorter when wrapping .

    If you have done it correctly , then it simply could be running cooler as its heatsinking correctly ..

    Bit like running a car with coolant , and without coolant , one will run stinking hot , and the other wont .

  18. #858
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Lantern useage hint for P60 drop-in

    For those who contemplate occasionally using lights with D26 XP-G drop-ins as lanterns (with traffic cones or solarforce lantern-heads) be advised that Nailbender has recently started offering a 3-level 1.5A drop in with a 4.2V -8.4 volt controller. This means that you can now run a flexible, bright drop-in with 2 @ 18650's for longer fun time.

    If you are concerned about tailstanding tippieness, try inserting the Surefire C, D, or P body into an inverted Mag C head used as a base. This works very well.
    Anything worth illuminating is worth illuminating to excess.

  19. #859

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Any low voltage 3-mode drop-in's that will give higher output than the Solarforce R2 .8-4.2v when running on 2xAA eneloops?
    prefer to stay in the $35 or under price range.

  20. #860
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by offroad View Post
    Any low voltage 3-mode drop-in's that will give higher output than the Solarforce R2 .8-4.2v when running on 2xAA eneloops?
    prefer to stay in the $35 or under price range.
    A Nailbender XPG R4 or R5 should do the trick. $35 including CONUS shipping. He offers a low voltage 3 mode boost only driver. Check it out on his sales thread.
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  21. #861

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
    A Nailbender XPG R4 or R5 should do the trick. $35 including CONUS shipping. He offers a low voltage 3 mode boost only driver.
    I have been looking at that one, I guess the R5 would give the highest output? I've also seen mention of a Dereelight .9-4.2v 3-mode but I only seem to find the one that's for 1x18650 not a 2xAA version.
    Which one of these would be better and are there others I should consider? Should I expect a very noticeable output gain over the Solarforce R2?

  22. #862
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by offroad View Post
    I have been looking at that one, I guess the R5 would give the highest output? I've also seen mention of a Dereelight .9-4.2v 3-mode but I only seem to find the one that's for 1x18650 not a 2xAA version.
    Which one of these would be better and are there others I should consider? Should I expect a very noticeable output gain over the Solarforce R2?
    Forgot to mention, if you're using a Solarforce L2r host, the exposed circuits of NB's drop-ins, which are present on only his boost driver boards, will not allow the bezel to be screwed all the way down. In addition, you'll need to insulate the surface of those circuits from the bottom of the L2r head socket with some electrical tape. I don't think the Dereelight Javelin host shares this problem.

    The last time I checked, SF P60 low-voltage drop-ins are XRE-R2s, which provide a more forcused hotspot and narrower spill than the XPGs' floodier beam. The XPG R4 and R5 will provide more lumens or total output, but it's distributed over a larger, much more diffused hotspot and wider spill. So depending on what you're looking for, the XPGs may or may not meet your expectations of improved performance over the SF R2s.

    Regarding the Dereelight low-voltage drop-ins, check dereelight.com or with Jay at flashlightconnection.com.
    Last edited by Midnight Oil; 08-25-2010 at 12:25 PM.
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  23. #863
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Does anyone know which P60 LED drop-in comes close to matching the warmth of the stock Surefire G2 P60 incan?

    I just received my SF G2 yesterday and I must say I'm captivated by the warm incan beam. It is very "rich," like a good cup of hot chocolate. It also looks a lot brighter than the stated 65 lumens. In fact it seems brighter than the medium modes on my R2 and R4, both of which are well above 100 lumen OTF.

    Thanks.
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  24. #864

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    I think Nailbender offers Warm White LEDs. The tint should be close to P60 if I'm not mistaken. There was a comparison between the 4sevens WW lights and the P60 and those seemed pretty close 7D-something. The tint was on their site Nailbender's WW LEDs are warmer, but I have no idea what you'll see in real life...

    I was toying around with my P60 just the other day and I understand what you mean about richness, but the yellow tint doesn't really appeal to me.
    Last edited by red02; 08-25-2010 at 09:48 PM.
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  25. #865
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by red02 View Post
    I think Nailbender offers Warm White LEDs. The tint should be close to P60 if I'm not mistaken. There was a comparison between the 4sevens WW lights and the P60 and those seemed pretty close 7D-something. The tint was on their site Nailbender's WW LEDs are warmer, but I have no idea what you'll see in real life...

    I was toying around with my P60 just the other day and I understand what you mean about richness, but the yellow tint doesn't really appeal to me.
    Red,

    Thanks for the referral. I know that ugly yellow tint you're talking about. I see it in my 4300K light next to the other neutral and CW lights. The P60 incan almost has a red tint to it, making it more orange-red than yellow. I think that's what I like about it. It makes things pop out like 3D vision.
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  26. #866

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
    Does anyone know which P60 LED drop-in comes close to matching the warmth of the stock Surefire G2 P60 incan?

    I just received my SF G2 yesterday and I must say I'm captivated by the warm incan beam. It is very "rich," like a good cup of hot chocolate. It also looks a lot brighter than the stated 65 lumens. In fact it seems brighter than the medium modes on my R2 and R4, both of which are well above 100 lumen OTF.

    Thanks.
    +1

    I like the tint of P60 or P90 modules but don't like their extremely short runtime (compared to LED modules like Malkoff) or their short life.

    But the tint is very nice yes... I think P90 might be better than P60 and I hear P91 even better.

    I want an LED module in the same tint. I am not so worried about lumens. In fact, I would want one with low lumens, maybe 60-80 but decent runtime. From what I hear, M61WLL is a 'neutral' tint that doesn't approach that of P60.
    Last edited by etc; 08-26-2010 at 03:20 PM.
    Malkoff Devices: M61SHO, Panasonic NCR18650* cells, Leef 2x18650 silver body.

  27. #867
    Flashaholic* Paul_in_Maryland's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by offroad View Post
    I've also seen mention of a Dereelight .9-4.2v 3-mode but I only seem to find the one that's for 1x18650 not a 2xAA version
    To get the 0.9-4.2V 3-mode, you must order it directly from Dereelight.com in Asia. That's how I bought mine. It's weak and blue on a single 1.2-1.7V cell. It's nice and strong and white (not cool, not warm) on three Eneloop AAs or two NiZn AAs.
    My lights, all AA, neutral or warm: 3 Fenix TK20s; 2 Malkoff M30WFs; 2 Shiningbeam Romisens (5A); Dereelight XP-G R5 (close enough); UK 4AA incan.

  28. #868

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_in_Maryland View Post
    To get the 0.9-4.2V 3-mode, you must order it directly from Dereelight.com in Asia. That's how I bought mine. It's weak and blue on a single 1.2-1.7V cell. It's nice and strong and white (not cool, not warm) on three Eneloop AAs or two NiZn AAs.
    I have a 3 stage 0.9-4.2v XRE R2 dropin and its pretty warm on 1xAA on high. Warmer than a P3D and I would guesstimate it was WG which is what I requested on the paypal notes...
    >>Opinions expressed by red02 do not necessarily express the opinions of the company or its subsidiaries. Facts stated by red02 are not necessarily facts.<<

  29. #869
    Flashaholic Midnight Oil's Avatar
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    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by red02 View Post
    I have a 3 stage 0.9-4.2v XRE R2 dropin and its pretty warm on 1xAA on high. Warmer than a P3D and I would guesstimate it was WG which is what I requested on the paypal notes...
    I managed to get a Dereelight 3SD R2 WG. Next to my Solarforce LC1 single mode R2 and my XPG R4 5000k, it appears green, but not as green as my NB R2 WD. When viewed alone, though, the WG seems pretty neutral.

    Oh, how my eyes play tricks on me.

    IIRC, the Dereelight drop-ins use PWM for the lower modes. The PWM is not noticeable at all in my sample, but I was informed that it reduces efficiency, so respective runtimes on the medium and low modes are not great.
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  30. #870

    Default Re: P60 sized led drop-ins (part 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Oil View Post
    I managed to get a Dereelight 3SD R2 WG. Next to my Solarforce LC1 single mode R2 and my XPG R4 5000k, it appears green, but not as green as my NB R2 WD. When viewed alone, though, the WG seems pretty neutral.

    Oh, how my eyes play tricks on me.

    IIRC, the Dereelight drop-ins use PWM for the lower modes. The PWM is not noticeable at all in my sample, but I was informed that it reduces efficiency, so respective runtimes on the medium and low modes are not great.
    Unfortunately as of yet there are no current controlled P60 dropins.

    I think I got a WD based on your explanation. Absolutely no hint of green, just white with a slight hint of yellowish tone. Kind of hard to describe...

    Weird thing is that my Dereelight dropin shifts tints more than my current controlled lights with blueish white on lowest and very nice creamy white on high with 1xAA. This is through pyrex but the Dereelight glass is set up to act like a colored filter in that it blocks some of the blue tint.
    >>Opinions expressed by red02 do not necessarily express the opinions of the company or its subsidiaries. Facts stated by red02 are not necessarily facts.<<

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