Question for all of the LEO's here...

RH

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Hi All,

I've got a question for all of the Law Enforcement Officers here. I was recently stopped by an officer in NY. He asked for my license and registration and asked me a few more questions like where I was coming from and where I was going. He then returned to his car and told me to wait a minute with no mention of my violation yet. I was thinking maybe I have a light out, maybe I didn't signal, or maybe I didn't stop at the last light.

He returns in a few minutes with a ticket for using a cell phone without a headset. This wouldn't be surprising except for the fact that I WASN"T USING MY PHONE! I don't know if he mistook me for someone else or if he thought I looked like I was on the phone when I was not.

In any event, the ticket is a computer printout and it has a timestamp. I have looked at my online cell call log and it clearly shows that I had no call or text message within +/- 15 min of the ticket.

My court date is next week. Should I just pay the fine or should I print the call log and show the judge that I was not on the phone?

Also, I'm just asking for some opinions. I will not take anyone's opinion as legal advice and indemnify anyone of any liability.

Thanks,
Robert
 

LukeA

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You have the time the citation was issued and, by extension, the alleged time of the offense.
You have proof that no offense was committed at the time on the citation.

It sounds like you have a pretty good case.
 

RyanA

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You'd probably be better off asking any friends who are lawyers. I dunno, usually traffic court isn't life or death or anything so maybe the judge would look at the cell phones records. Maybe a bill would be better. If it won't arrive in time for the court date you could ask your cell phone company I'd bet they'd accommodate.:shrug:
Good Luck
 

gorn

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Go to court on it, but check with the clerk first. The court may or may not accept a printout from the internet. They may require a certified copy of the phone company's record of your calls.
 

NeonLights

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Not quite sure what I'd do. Just playing the devil's advocate a bit, but can you somehow prove you don't have a 2nd cell phone for business or other use? Can you prove you weren't on a throwaway or pay as you go cell that is sceondary to your main cell phone? I know a few people with multiple cell phones. I probably would have tried to convince the officer at the time of the citation in a non-confrontational way, show him you cell phone log at the time he pulled you over.

It would really make me steaming mad to get a ticket for something I didn't do, but if it wasn't a moving violation (no points on record), and if the fine wasn't very bad (will vary from one person to another how much they can "afford"), I might just pay it and chalk it up to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. How valuable is your time? Will you have to take a day off work to go to court to fight it? How far away is the courthouse from where you live/work? It could cost you more to go to court and fight it than to just mail the fine in.

Good luck with it, in whatever you decide to do........
 

dudemar

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I agree with the others, get a copy of your cell phone bill and contest the ticket. If the bill's not enough, get a copy of your records from your cell phone company.
 

jzmtl

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I probably would have tried to convince the officer at the time of the citation in a non-confrontational way, show him you cell phone log at the time he pulled you over.

I know plenty of people who got bogus (and not bogus:laughing:) tickets trying to argue with the cop, they all got the same answer, you can argue it in court, now sign the ticket.
 

Greta

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... it clearly shows that I had no call or text message within +/- 15 min of the ticket.

I wouldn't even try to argue this one if you're talking +/- 15 minutes. You don't know when or where he saw you. I was stopped for speeding in Colorado a few months ago. The officer told me where he had clocked me speeding. It was a good 15 minutes back. It took him that long to catch up to me, he said. As I knew that I had been speeding where he told me I had been, I didn't even argue. No, I wasn't speeding when he finally stopped me... but he definately had me dead to rights where and when he said he did. +/- 15 minutes is too close. Now if it were like an hour or more, you'd have something to argue.

One more thing to think about... you WERE violating the law... you've admitted it. If you walk into that court and say, "I wasn't talking on my cell phone when he caught me... I was doing it 15 minutes prior.".... Um... think about that... ;)
 

tiktok 22

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One more thing to think about... you WERE violating the law... you've admitted it. If you walk into that court and say, "I wasn't talking on my cell phone when he caught me... I was doing it 15 minutes prior.".... Um... think about that... ;)

Based on his post, he didn't admit anything. He never said how long he was in the vehicle. He may have just got in his vehicle. I still think this would be a good case to take to court.
 
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RH

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Thanks all for the responses. I hadn't thought of the "maybe you have 2 cell phones" argument. That would probably be impossible to disprove with pay as you go phones that require no records.

Regarding the +/- 15 mins, I don't think this is a problem. This was in an urban area. I had just left one shopping plaza and drove to another one. Total distance traveled was probably a quarter mile. Total time in the car before being stopped was less than 5 mins. In fact, the stop was actually in the parking lot of the other shopping center!

However, It seems like even with the call record, the judge can still find holes in this.

Thanks for all of the thought you guys put into this!

Robert
 

2xTrinity

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Thanks all for the responses. I hadn't thought of the "maybe you have 2 cell phones" argument. That would probably be impossible to disprove with pay as you go phones that require no records.
Trying to prove a negative is ultimately impossible, as one could always come up with more "what if" scenarios. A log showing your cell phone call times on your primary cell is about the strongest evidence you should be reasonably able to come up with.

There really isn't a whole lot of "hard evidence" a typical driver can conjure up in any sort of citation challenge most of the time. It's mostly just their word/story.

Regarding the +/- 15 mins, I don't think this is a problem. This was in an urban area. I had just left one shopping plaza and drove to another one. Total distance traveled was probably a quarter mile. Total time in the car before being stopped was less than 5 mins. In fact, the stop was actually in the parking lot of the other shopping center!

However, It seems like even with the call record, the judge can still find holes in this.
If you want a reply to the "what if the cop saw you 15 minutes earlier talking" claim, you might bring in sales receipts or CC statements from the first shopping center (assuming you made purchases), to make a strong argument you could have only been driving a few minutes from there, to where you received the citation.
 

jtr1962

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Generally when you plead not guilty to something in court here AND the officer isn't there you'll have to come back several times before your case is ultimately dismissed. I received a ticket for cycling on the sidewalk in 1999 and initially pleaded not guilty. The officer didn't show. I figured it would be dismissed then and there. Not so. I was given another date by the judge. I asked the the court officer about this and he said I would have come back two or three more times. If the officer didn't show at all only then would the ticket be dismissed. I ended up changing my plea to guilty because my time was worth more than the fine (and if the officer showed up next time I would lose my case anyway, and probably get 10 times the fine because I had initially pleaded not guilty). Nowadays I might plead not guilty however because cycling on the sidewalk now carries a prison term in addition to a fine. In short, guilty or not just pay the ticket and be done with it since it involves a fine only, not prison time. NY courts are a zoo and the judge probably wouldn't listen to a thing you say as he/she just wants to move along to the next case. The judge I had probably would have called you a smart a$$ if you pulled out your cell phone records, found you guilty, and fined you 5 times what he would have fined you had you just pleaded guilty. Judges here are too volatile and unpredictable to play games, and they're pushed to maximize revenue rather than dispense justice.. Don't plead not guilty unless you have rock-solid evidence, a lot of time to spend in court, AND the judge seems to be in a good mood.
 

chmsam

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Just a thought on what I might do if I were in your position, but I am not a lawyer.

Several days or even a week or so before your trial date see if you can contact the district attorney who will be handling those cases (usually you can find out who that is by contacting the town court in which the case will be heard). Show him what you have as proof that you were not on the phone at that time and see what he says -- and get it in writing. Offer no other information if he does not specifically ask for it (and that seems to always be very important). You might get off or you might still have t go and fight it, but you might have a better idea of what's going to happen before hand. Contact a lawyer if you feel you need one or if the fine could be high, and especially if this might add points to your license.

And after it all gets worked out if you do not already have one, go and get yourself a headset and use the darned thing if you have to use the phone in the car. NY does enforce this law, obviously. Heck, I got a bluetooth for my wife for only about $20 awhile ago (good trade, huh? Yuk, yuk, yuk). It is a lot cheaper than getting a ticket -- even if you get off you will have spent time on it getting things in order. Plus wearing the headset kind of makes writing the ticket less likely in the first place.
 

NeonLights

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I know plenty of people who got bogus (and not bogus:laughing:) tickets trying to argue with the cop, they all got the same answer, you can argue it in court, now sign the ticket.
I've talked a cop down on several occasions to a lower fine/infraction than they had initially planned on giving me due to circumstances they hadn't considered or weren't aware of. In each case I acted in a very mature, respectful manner and wasn't pushy or angry. I never lied or stretched the truth. I don't believe in fighting tickets that I was rightfully cited for.
 

Dissipator556

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I will tell you that MOST traffic court judges are quite able to tell when people are lying to them and vice versa. They hear nonsense excuses and stories almost as much as cops, and have excellent BS meters.

I would bring the phone records in the most formal and organized manner possible, along with the headset that you use in the car, with receipt or credit card statment for that headset. Showing that you already owned a headset in accordance with the NY State law will go towards showing that you respect and follow the law. A fairly clean driving and no criminal record would be a favorable factor for you also.

Harder to do, but very effective, would be contacting all of the cell phone providers that offer service to your area and asking for a letter stating that you did not have service with them on the date of the offense. Seeing as your court date is next week, this seems unlikely to get done unless you have lots of free time on your hands. At any rate, attempting this will further show the judge that you are serious about your innocence.

It's all how you present yourself and the facts to the judge- wear a suit and tie, be cordial and respectful to both the officer and the court. Tell your side of the story with sincerity, and respectfully present the evidence that you have to offer.

Police officers are human too (except for Robocop of course), and can make mistakes just like everybody else. We don't always like to admit that, but I've seen judges rule in a citizen's favor whenever they present a decent case and keep their bearing. Good luck to you and let us know what happens.
 

primox1

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Lots of good advice here. From what I know, you can get a ticket for just holding your phone, even if its not in use. Like others have said, officers make mistakes, like everyone else. I got pulled over for apparently talking on the cell during my morning commute to work. I didnt have my phone out of my front pocket, got reprimanded for something I didnt do, and then was let go without a ticket. At first, I was upset for being accused for an act I didnt commit. But I soon realized mistakes happen, and I was very happy I didnt get a ticket. Regardless, if you are innocent, you should fight it if you have the time and patience...its worth a shot. Ultimately, it all comes down to the judge.
 

frisco

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I believe........ In telling the truth...... If your busted..... Your busted..... Pay up Sucker!

If you didn't do it..... Look the judge straight in the face.... Eye to eye and tell him/her politely .....I didn't do it...It never happened. The LEO obviously got me mixed up with somebody else.

At the end of the day.... The only person you have to answer to is yourself..... If you didn't do it.... You didn't do it.... Stand up for yourself!

frisco
 
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