Rayovac Sportsman Extreme 300 Lumen Lantern - MORE INFO ???

[CyberCT]

Hmm but if you heatsink the driver and the heatsinking (epoxy) ends up touching both the postive and negative solder points (if I were to epoxy the driverboard with the chips facing the large heatsink) wouldn't that cause a short?

[netprince]

Yes, the solder joints must be below the top of the chips, or the heatsink will short the + and -.

[CyberCT]

Do you know for a fact if the chips specifically for the 1.4a driver get hot? Is there any way you could do a quick test? I honestly think the best spot is probably above the switch placement on the Rayovac. I would first solder all the wires (with just a tad bit of tension, I'd solder the back of the driver first to the battery (+) and (-) and then the LED (+) and (-) to the driver with mimimal slack. Actually, Maybe if I epoxyed a penny to the front of the driver (right up to the chips) it should be OK? Assuming the chips don't get HOT but warm?

[netprince]

I'm not sure how hot they get. Your idea does sound good.

[CyberCT]

I'm brainstorming out loud here (and more like a "duh") but if I take my LED's (+) and (-) wires and connect them to the (+) and (-) of the driver maybe using electrical tape temporarily, and then using electrical tape to tape 3 eneloops in a line (series basically), taping the (+) and (-) wires to that series and then to the back of the driver, I should essentially have a full circuit to test the drivers and see how hot they get, and to make sure they work. Does this sound correct?

Would I get a shock if I touch a driver chip only with the tip of my finger to validate the heat coming from them?

[netprince]

No shock, just heat (maybe). Its a good idea to test, I'm curious what you find.

[Lynx_Arc]

Would I get a shock if I touch a driver chip only with the tip of my finger to validate the heat coming from them?

You won't feel a shock at such low voltages unless perhaps you stuck your tongue to it and then it would be more akin to a tingle.

[CyberCT]

Ok, I did some experimenting / temporary installations tonight with results.

First off, the 1.0a driver seemed to originally work in all 3 modes, but now seems to work in the lowest mode only. I'm trying to figure out what happened. I used my new $15 solder gun to solder the (+) and (-) of the LED wires onto the PCB, and the same with the battey (+) and (-) to the back (well the negative I twisted the metal in the wire and put it in a small hole on the negative ring. I soldered the (+) to the middle copperish circle). The one chip next to the (+) solder point on the PCB seems to be loose. My guess is it's a defect from the factory? I don't know. I do know though is that my gun and setup isn't the easiest to work with. Perhaps I should look at a better setup.

Then I swapped drivers, now using the 1.4a driver, using the same attachment methods. It works flawlessly. The brightness is outstanding actually for the XPG on the highest mode. It nearly rivals the CFL bulb in my room. After a half hour of the cover on and the lantern on the highest mode, the whole lantern assembly doesn't get too warm. But as soon as I took the top lantern assembly off I found the stock heatsink to be hot to the touch. Not as hot as with the stock driver, but still hot. I also felt the four chips on the 1.4a driver. They were hot, but not too hot or not as hot as the stock heatsink. THe driver is essentially hanging by the wires it's installed to. It's pretty secure in the stock Rayovac slot actually, which is above where the stock button sits. THe 1.0a driver is probably best with the XPG. I'll see if I can do anything to get it to work right and if not, my guess is to RMA it (not sure if it's worth it though for the $10)

I can't wait for my neutral XML to show up in the mail with my clicky switches. The 1.4a driver will probably be perfect for the XML heat-wise.

[CyberCT]

And I just thought of a few questions maybe someone could help me with:

1) If I were to put two AA eneloops in a series (instead of 3) bascially putting one on top of the other in my Fenix LD20 tube to test my neutral XML once it arrives in the mail, would that be enough voltage for the test? I know you need two, not one, AA batteries in series in order to test if an XPG works (at least, that's what I found). It would make my testing of LEDs once they come in the mail easier.

2) Can someone quickly explain forward voltage to me in realtion to the XPG, XPE, and XML LEDs? And in relation to different AA battery configuration requirements for each LED type?

[LEDAdd1ct]

This calculator allows you to quickly and easily determine the forward voltage of an LED at a particular current:

Link

[CyberCT]

I'm going to see if I can get the 1.0a driver to work when I get home. Maybe when soldering I unsoldered a part of where a chip near the point meets the PCB or something. I left the lantern on for two hours last night (medium mode) and then took the cover off. The lantern heatsink was warm. Not hot, but it was warm. And that's being driven at 470ma. Hopefully I get it working to test, but I'm thinking that maybe even the 1.0a high mode of the driver will cause the heatsink assembly to get hot. I like the output of medium mode, it's actually quite good for hanging upside down in a cabin or on a picnic table. The medium on the 1.0a driver is 100ma less than the 1.4a driver.

[netprince]

I wonder if you can get some temperature readings on the LED heatsink? I know that LEDs can safely get hotter than we can touch, but that we always try to keep them cooler than we can touch for safety. I've never accurately measured the temp of the heatsink in my lanterns either.

[CyberCT]

Hopefully my switches and neutral XML come in the mail tomorrow or Saturday. I really want to install everything for both lanterns. I was finally successful with modding some of my Fenix lights with neutral XPGs, so I'm kinda stoked right now lol.

[CyberCT]

Ok, well my neutral XML and switches did not come in the mail today. However, my Shiningbeam.COM orders did. I bought two of the 1.4a drivers (one to replace the stuck on low 1.0a driver) and an additional one because I might want to do another mod in the future. I also got a tailcap from them which was pretty cheap, knowing I'd get my order delivered in 3 days (Saturday) just in case my order from China didn't make it.

So I just got done finalizing my mod of the neutral XPG-R5 with the 1.4a driver. One word ... SUCCESS!

I just assembled everything back together and it works great. My intention is to use the medium mode as my normal mode. High mode only in short bursts (lantern gets too hot). It's still plenty bright on medium. I'm doing a runtime test on 3 Eneloops right now on the medium mode. Then I'll just double that time and that should be how much 6 Eneloops would last on medium. It was kind of a PITA and I did some drilling due to how long the Shiningbeam switch is. I'll see if I can post up a guide shortly. The biggest PITA was getting the stock rubber and plastic switch for the casing to work with my new switch installed on the interior body of the lantern. I had a crafty thought on how to slide it in without the switch petruding and getting stuck.

[CyberCT]

Just another comment / observation. I don't know if the specific neutral XPG-R5 I installed in the lantern was a tad cooler in color temperature than the other neutral XPG-R5s I got in a batch, but with the lantern reassembled but without the top attached, it seemed a tad cool in color temp. Before everything was attached, it seemed a tad cooler maybe? but was still neutral with a tad bit of warmth. Now with just the stock Rayovac round diffuser on the lantern (the top disconnected) it was a little cooler than I thought it would be. With the lantern top part attached, it was even a little more cooelr still. Compared with another of my neutral XPG-R5s installed in my Fenix LD20 and the Fenix diffuser adapter, the Fenix still seemed a little warmer in color temp. I took a still stock Fenix LD20 R5 and compared it to the lantern, and the Fenix was still cooler (YUCK!. I don't like cool white anymore. Am I becoming a neutral white snob? lol)

My runtime test for my modified Rayovac lantern was about 4.5 hours on 3 Eneloops for medium mode. So I should expect about 9 hour or so with 6 batteries. It did seem like the high and mid outputs diminished from a freshly charged set of batteries in the different modes, which I thought wasn't possible because of the driver? It could be my imagination?

[CyberCT]

I FINALLY got my netural XML-T6 in the mail today, along with the switches, from cnqualitygoods. I must have ordered them at the start of the Chinese new year. It took a month from order to delivery. Later this afternoon I'll start doing some testing, first for how hot the heatsink gets when driving the XML on 1.4a, for say a half hour, open without the top on.

[netprince]

Nice. Looking forward to your testing. I've used mine on high for hours while camping in warm weather. At the time I didn't bother to open it up and see how hot it was getting. Do you have a thermometer or something to take some readings?

[CyberCT]

OK ... great success to a degree. The netural XML running at the high 1.4a mode is perfect! The heatsink barely gets warm ... unlike the neutal XPG-R5 which gets the heatsink VERY HOT running on high 1.4a. So I will be buying a few more neutral T6 XMLs from cnqualitygoods. I will replace the XPG on my other lantern with the XML.
The switches from cnqualitygoods are crap! Every five times I click them they get stuck. I filed down the first one and at first it was fine then after some clicking it sticks. The second one I messed up. The third on I did not file down at all and it now gets stuck a lot. The shiningbeam switches are much better in quality and I will have to order another one for my lantern build, even if the install requires drilling and is a little PITA. So I'm stuck with a neutral XML lantern with a crap switch and a XPG lantern with a great switch but it gets insanely hot on high.

In the basement I did a test and the XML is maybe just a tad brigher than the XPGr5 on high, but is a tad cooler, which I like. I feel 5,000k is the perfect color temperature. My HIDs in my car are 5,000K and I love it.

I got a great deal on Tenergy NIMH D cells so I bought a bunch and now running on high mode all night will be no problem camping with the capacity of the D cell vs the 2 AAs in a D adapter.

[CyberCT]

For my new neutral XML 1.4a lantern build I left the lantern cover on for 40 minutes running on high. The lantern cover is unscrewed so I could pull it off the lantern assembly quickly and see how hot the heatsink gets when covered. To my surprise the heatsink was hot. Well, after keeping your finger on it for 6 seconds it's quite hot. Not as hot as the XPG lantern running at 1.4a though. If the XPG lantern ran for 20 minutes on high the heatsink was hot as soon as you touch it. No seconds to keep your finger on there until it's unbearable.

I put six of my Imedion AA batteries in the three 2xAA to D cell adapters in to the lantern. The lantern went from high mode to flashing in about 4 hours.

[CyberCT]

I thought it might be worth mentioning that the chips on the driver get hot to the touch after about 6 seconds of holding your finger on them, like the heatsink of the lantern. This was done after runnin on high for 40 minutes enclosed.

[CyberCT]

Got the Shiningbeam switches in the mail today and so far works perfectly. It is a pain to get them to fit into the body of the Rayovac (drilling, cutting is involved) and it's hard to get solder to adhere to the metal. I had to drill a hole and make it work. And then getting the assembly into the cover with the stock switch rubber & plastic was a pain but finally got it all together and works well!

[thedofuss]

HOLD ON! I just got the subject 300 lumen light (2/24/12). Counter to most all posts, I am not particularly impressed by this light. The $25 price is not huge, but there are many other lights out there that are far better. E.g., the basic Coleman propane camping lantern beats the proverbial pants off of this so-called "extreme" light--as do many other battery operated lights. There's nothing at all extreme about it, but it's ok--giving off a decent number of lumens (did not measure to see if it was 300, or not), but its really nothin' special, IMHO. The plastic cover that distributes the LED-based light does not do a good job of disseminating the output, although, again, it's ok. I just disagree with all the hype as to how great this is. For the price it's okay, but if you're looking for a light to light up your campsite, or your first floor, this is NOT the one for you. Look into others before you buy. This is a highly overrated light, IMO.

[CyberCT]

HOLD ON! I just got the subject 300 lumen light (2/24/12). Counter to most all posts, I am not particularly impressed by this light. The $25 price is not huge, but there are many other lights out there that are far better. E.g., the basic Coleman propane camping lantern beats the proverbial pants off of this so-called "extreme" light--as do many other battery operated lights. There's nothing at all extreme about it, but it's ok--giving off a decent number of lumens (did not measure to see if it was 300, or not), but its really nothin' special, IMHO. The plastic cover that distributes the LED-based light does not do a good job of disseminating the output, although, again, it's ok. I just disagree with all the hype as to how great this is. For the price it's okay, but if you're looking for a light to light up your campsite, or your first floor, this is NOT the one for you. Look into others before you buy. This is a highly overrated light, IMO.

Well I guess all lanterns are overrated because the campfire is soooo much brighter. Seriously though, we are talking about different technology here. In regard to the safe LED lantern type vs. the more dangerous propane lantern type, this lantern is hard to beat. And after it is modded, I would like to find an LED lantern to beat it. My modded lantern on the highest mode (with the removable top diffuser part off) is brighter than my CFL bulb in my room while using half the wattage. Impressive indeed!

[thedofuss]

I don't know what mods you did, so can't really comment further. I was speaking about the "stock" version, without mods. Any light, with appropriate mods can be made to function in just about any way. I do not have the knowledge or time to modify lights, but cudos to those who do. I do completely agree with the safety issue, which is particularly relevant to indoor /power outage-type of use. Obviously, the subject light is highly preferrable to any fuel consuming/combustion by-product emmiting product. Again, my only point was that most all responses seemed to imply that this light created output similar to daytime. In my experience, unmodifed, it does not. Thanks for your response.

[CyberCT]

I think that the fact there are not many bright LED driven lanterns out there is one reason why this lantern gets so much attention. It's 300 emitter lumens so actual ANSI measured lumens would be less. There are o-ring seals everywhere on the body of this light and hooks on both the head and bottom so this light can be hung and angled in almost any way (on a tree branch, nail, etc). It's also the perfect host for a good mo. Flashlights have thousands of lumens but lanterns for some reason don't get that much attention. There aren't even any 18650 LION driven lanterns out there either.

[MorePower]

On high, ANSI lumens are 180 with the top on and 240 with the top off. On "low", ANSI lumens are 75 and 100.

[CyberCT]

Hmm that's interesting. So there's a 20% loss with the top off on high (240 / 300 lumens), and 16.6% loss on low (100 / 120 lumens). Too bad there's no regulation on the stock driver. The light keeps deminishing over time no matter the mode.

I noticed that one of my lanterns had the diffuser more frosted than the other from the factory. I went to Walmart and bought Krylon clear matt finish spraypaint. If you have the patients to put about 10 coats on, it makes the stock diffuser much better. I noticed that with both my neutral XMLs and neutral XPGr5s, the light that comes out of the sides of the LED is yellowish and the light from the top of the LED is white. I guess with a flashlight reflector it all mixes as one color but with an LED bare you can see the color rendition change. Frosting the sides of the stock diffuser seems to help a bit with this.

[MorePower]

Hmm that's interesting. So there's a 20% loss with the top off on high (240 / 300 lumens), and 16.6% loss on low (100 / 120 lumens). Too bad there's no regulation on the stock driver. The light keeps deminishing over time no matter the mode.

There's a 25% loss in High mode with the top on (180/240). There's a 25% loss in Low mode with the top on (75/100). The 300 and 120 lumen values you quote are from the previous packaging materials which were not ANSI ratings. 240 and 100 lumens are ANSI rated, and therefore lower. Putting the top on further reduces output from those values.

[CyberCT]

Putting some coats of that clear matte spraypaint finish on the diffusers made a nice difference in the beam. By nature of the neutral LED itself, I notice that the light coming form the bottom of the LED is yellow and the light coming from the top is pure white. In a flashight with a reflector I assume the colors mix as a one-color beam because of the nature of the reflector. But with a diffuser sitting over a netural LED itself, the light from the bottom of the diffuser is yellow but the light from the top of the LED is pure white. So with just the diffuser (not the detatchable top) you will notice a color different depending on what's being lit up by the lantern around the room. With the detachable top on, this color difference is still easily noticable.

So after spraying the diffuser and making it diffuse the light more, the color of the beam pattern is more uniform. It's not 100% the same color but it's much closer. With the detachable top on, the color is MUCH better because it looks almost 100% like a single neutral color coming from the lantern. So if anyone is doing this project and notices this, get the Krylon clear matte spraypaint from Walmart for like $3.

[CyberCT]

I replaced the neutral XPG with the neutral XML on my 1st lantern so now both are sporting neutral XMLs. Since the switch I'm using just does not adhere well at all to solder, I ended up drilling a very tiny hole about 1/4 inch or so and folding up and tinning the copper wire from the driver to the switch. Then used electrical tape over it around the outside of the switch so this thing won't be coming apart no matter what. I got the process down to almost clockwork.

If anyone has any questions feel free to post.

EDIT: I put 3 of my average capacity matched eneloops in each lantern, so a total of 6 eneloops were used, 3 per lantern. I used those cheap 2AA to D cell adapters. Each lantern was turned on high mode and from power on to blinking mode was 1 hour 22 minutes. It's funny that the lanterns started blinking within seconds of each other. The eneloops I matched and the drivers in the lanterns are very consistent.