View Poll Results: Political Party

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  • Democrat

    10 18.18%
  • Republican

    27 49.09%
  • Other

    18 32.73%
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Thread: Republican/Democrat/Other...

  1. #1

    Default Republican/Democrat/Other...




    I have yet to see a post about political parties. I am curious to see how CPF members stand. If you would like to say why your are part of the political party that you are, I would love to hear.

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    great answers so far! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Well this thread is sure getting somewhere fast. I think I might help get it started.

    I am mostly a republican, but I don't like to be categorized with about slightly less than half of Americans. I do not always agree with Republicans. For this reason I see why many of you have voted for the "Other" category. I do not agree with the idea that we should be taxed a lot by the government, and a few elected officials decide where a few hundred million people's money goes to. I think it would be better if people pay some money to the government, but have most of it to spend for themselves. This diversity it what part of makes America, America.

    What do you think?

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* FalconFX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    How about a Republicrat?
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    I'm a mut, dang it!
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    I am a "Frisbitarian". We believe that the bipartisan leadership has thrown The Constitution and good ethics up on a roof where the decent people of the country can't reach 'em!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

    Later,
    TSG [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    As an English outsider I cannot really comment, but I would say that I'm more Democrat than Republican. The problem is that sometimes you have a brilliant leader whose private life wasn't so good, or else you have one whose international knowledge does not include the existance of another Birmingham outside the States!
    Some policies that are "Republican" i do support, whilst there are a lot of policies that I wouldn't advocate.
    It is the same in our country and people aren't sure who to vote for anymore... New Labour is just as right wing as Old Tory!
    In fact, the only politicians that seem to be speaking any sense are independants!
    I used to support Mr Blair, but I'm not so sure now!

  7. #7
    Glowing admin B@rt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Try Dutch politics...
    Lots of politic parties to choose from... It seems we have a party for everything... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

  8. #8

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    B@rt said:
    Try Dutch politics...
    Lots of politic parties to choose from... It seems we have a party for everything... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ah but we have the Monster Raving Loony Party (and yes they do actually stand for election) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Seriously I don't know enough about American politics to make the Republican / Democrat decision.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* FalconFX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Well, at least our Senators are so old that they can't throw chairs at each other like Taiwan's or throw punches like Japan's... They would bore you out of your mind with filibusters, though...
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

    I'd hate to see the day when Congress is a free for all. But then again, work would be done quite quickly in that fashion...
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

    As for Republicans and Democrats, most people are fed up about their parties. The two parties are either too far to the left or right, or really don't give you a simple answer on an issue. At the very least, the 2 party system makes choices somewhat easier. But then again, when a number of people equivalent to my entire apartment complex decided the President of the United States, there's a problem... Such is the life of politics...

  10. #10
    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    I voted 'other'.

    I mostly think of myself as a Libertarian. However when it is time to vote for real, I usually vote Republican... simply because the Democrats are generally at least 100% against what I think is right!

    It might have been very different when being a Southern Democrat wasn't actually a bad thing...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    NOBODY agrees with EVERYthing a party stands for. This impossible standard is a willfully obtuse straw-man arguement used by people seeking to bash the political system as a whole. The secret to the existance of political parties is that people that hold certain political beliefs (ie. states rights on the right or aggressively taxing wealthy to distribute to poor on the left) inevitably tend to also hold other seemingly unassociated beliefs (ie. gun rights on the right or abortion rights on the left) Human beings being the individuals they are of course differ in certain specific stances but by and large follow relatively definite patterns of beliefs. The current two major parties do a good job of catering to one side or the other, and thereby provide collective strength to holders of those beliefs (which is the purpose of a political party)

    I would argue that people who call themselves Independents merely haven't sat down and examined on which side of the spectrum their beliefs fall, chances are that they would find that 75% of their beliefs, if they can be identified, would fall in line with one party or another. Obviously a few critical issues can throw you into flavors of the right or left, such as the Libertarians or the Socialists.

    So as appealing as it may be to rebelliously declare that you can't be pinned down with a boring political label, if you're almost always voting the same as a certain party I'm sorry to tell you that you are in fact, if not in name one of those people.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    MichiganMan,
    You make some very good points. I think most of us fancy ourselves independent thinkers and don't toe any party line. I lean a good ways to the right but believe in abortion rights. I agree (as you stated) with about 75% of the conservative positions, 5% of the liberal positions and 20% of the time I straddle the line.



  13. #13
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    No surprises in the vote so far.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    Darell said:
    No surprises in the vote so far.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You think? I guess I was expecting more democrats, but now that I think about it, it makes sense that a lot of CPF'ers are Republican or someting else.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Yeah, we've never had a direct vote like this, but we've had plenty of threads that offered the results just about as obviously.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    The current totals make sense and reflect the fact CPF'ers are correct 18 out of 23 times whether it be politics or torches and 13 out of 44 they are waiting for another choice. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    MichiganMan,

    So, if we agree with one parth 75% of the time, we're just supposed to close our eyes and bear it for the other 25% of the time? I'm not entirely happy with that prospect.

    I would like, just once in my life, to be able to vote *for* a candidate. I'm getting tired of voting against the worst evil.

    I'm a fiscal conservative, but a liberal in the more social areas--sex, religion, etc. Who do I vote for? I'd like to vote republican as they generally don't try to suck power into the federal government and tax more and more heavily to support it, but they have this huge religious thing going (for about the last 16 years) that's just repugnant. I'm certainly not willing to side with the democrats as they keep throwing up candidates like Al Gore--great administrator, but not leadership material.

    So, I pick 'other' as in 'none of the above'.

    Why do we still have political parties? These things have been around in one form or another for hundreds of years (not only in the US, obviously). Why do we have them? What purpose do they serve?

    Here's a wild idea. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Referendum voting. Congress draws up laws. *people* vote on them. The executive branch enforces them. The judicial branch prosecutes those who break them.

    Now, political parties and PACs are about the same thing. They exist to have opinions on *specific* topics and to provide 'educational' material on issues/bills relating to it. You can proxy your votes out to them or you can just view their recommendations. If you proxy out your vote to them, they can claim 'members' and use that to sway the formation of laws, etc.

    The tools to view all of the information and perform a vote can be done over the web (yes there are a lot of technical hurtles to clear to make that work, but none of them are unsolveable). PCs in public libraries would serve for those who have none. Cafe's would once again, become meaningful centers of political discussion.

    Oh, in the case of multiple proxys, you'd assign them a priority or some other combination scheme. That way, you could be a Republican member of the Sierra Club or some other ironic thing. A pro-nuke green peacer, etc... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    You could, also, click the democrat or republican proxy button and never login again. So, the politicians might like it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    ...but they have this huge religious thing going (for about the last 16 years) that's just repugnant.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    THANK YOU!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] ... I thought it was just me! Seems somewhat hypocritcal to me to not want big government running your life but then to turn around and quote the Bible for every aspect in your life and to leave your life in the hands of "God". Sorry but I feel that God helps those who help themselves... and who can think for themselves... and make decisions for themselves... etc etc etc.

    Perhaps I'm not wording this right but I think you get my point.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    The basic descriptions of the major parties when I was younger was that democrats were basically radical, and republicans were basically conservative. The republican party found the broader term "liberal" to be more offensive due to the expanded connotations. They've very effectively succeeded in eliminating the term radical. I can't say more liberal definitions found in 'liberal' are inaccurate, but it is a political ploy.

    The primary differences between the parties are embedded a little deeper, and isn't always obvious subjectively. Each party attempts to mask it's true nature by adapting platforms that they think will embrace the most acceptance, while still remaining unique and in opposition to the other party by contrast. Like most other nations, our politics are in actuality based on an economic system and the classes resulting from an economic system.

    Republicans are in actuality aristocratic, favoring advantage for the entrepreneur and wealth seekers. Democrats are in actuality socialists, favoring solidarity and such. Neither exclusively makes for good government, but struggles, checks and balances, and frequent changes run a constantly varied compromise that seems to be quite effective in maintaining not only a healthy economy but also a freedom available only by 'government by the people'.

    Aristocrats cannot be supported by only aristocrats. They must exploit the common worker in order to survive, either through forced labor or similarly substandard wages, or by providing sufficient wages to enable the common worker to participate in the monetary flow. Socialism cannot support the communal goals without the entrepreneur's innovations and aristocratic goals. The constant virtual revolution of democracy helps insure that both, like it or not, provides both stimulus and restraint.

    All these other platforms are subterfuge to gain votes. Aristocrats are far outnumbered by the common worker, and must call the least attention to their underlying goals. The common worker far outnumbers the aristocrats, but the ability to reach such aristocratic level by encouraging and enabling their ability and incentive for innovation and effort raises the number of the aristocratic hopefuls.

    The last thing a party would want at election time would be for the excesses of the true major objectives and differences to become obvious.

    How do you catch a republican? You bait the trap with money.
    How do you catch a democrat? You bait the trap with money.
    The primary difference is the republican wants to use the money; the democrat wants to spend the money. The republican needs the democrat, otherwise he can't use the money; all he can do is hang it on the wall. The democrat needs the republican, otherwise he can't get the money, otherwise he'll just admire it hanging on the republican's wall.



  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    I do believe that Empath has hit the nail DIRECTLY on the head!

    I do find my voting in many cases to be for the lesser evil.

    BUT! I do not think a direct up and down vote by each individual would be good for the USA. Because just as soon as people find that they can vote themselves 'goodies' it is ALL OVER!!!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    Willmore said:
    MichiganMan,

    So, if we agree with one parth 75% of the time, we're just supposed to close our eyes and bear it for the other 25% of the time?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm sorry, where exactly did you see such an obviously ridiculous assertion in my posting?

    What I was attempting to address was the obtuse straw man arguements that ...sigh, ahh never mind... Yeah Willmore, that was my point: You should vote exactly how a party tells you to in every election, whether you believe it or not.

    [ QUOTE ]

    Why do we still have political parties? These things have been around in one form or another for hundreds of years (not only in the US, obviously). Why do we have them? What purpose do they serve?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    See, this was in my posting.

    Parties exist because it gives people who tend to agree with each other collective power. Simple concept really, but too easily mischaracterized apparently.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    MichiganMan said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Willmore said:
    So, if we agree with one parth 75% of the time, we're just supposed to close our eyes and bear it for the other 25% of the time?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm sorry, where exactly did you see such an obviously ridiculous assertion in my posting?


    [/ QUOTE ]
    You said:
    [ QUOTE ]

    I would argue that people who call themselves Independents merely haven't sat down and examined on which side of the spectrum their beliefs fall, chances are that they would find that 75% of their beliefs, if they can be identified, would fall in line with one party or another. Obviously a few critical issues can throw you into flavors of the right or left, such as the Libertarians or the Socialists.

    So as appealing as it may be to rebelliously declare that you can't be pinned down with a boring political label, if you're almost always voting the same as a certain party I'm sorry to tell you that you are in fact, if not in name one of those people.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Which implies that even though someone may only fully agree with 75% of the issues of a party at first look, they should 'look deeper' and see that they truly agree with the rest. I think that's the same as saying 'suck it up' for the other 25%.

    [ QUOTE ]

    What I was attempting to address was the obtuse straw man arguements that ...sigh, ahh never mind... Yeah Willmore, that was my point: You should vote exactly how a party tells you to in every election, whether you believe it or not.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You seemed to be saying that people may only think that they had some agreement with one party, but they they would truly find out that they believed it all if they only looked hard enough? As if each party has a completely coherent position that is in no way contradictory? And which is completely diametrically opposed to the other party? Spit it out.

    Don't blame your inability and unwillingness to clearly articulate your meaning on me. Say your piece.

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Why do we still have political parties? These things have been around in one form or another for hundreds of years (not only in the US, obviously). Why do we have them? What purpose do they serve?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    See, this was in my posting.

    Parties exist because it gives people who tend to agree with each other collective power. Simple concept really, but too easily mischaracterized apparently.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You also made the assertion that people who claimed not to be fully defined by *one* party title and who were self declared independents were just popularity seeking poseurs. That is what with which I take issue.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    I'm thinking that Empath has been reading too much Karl Marx recently. That stuff is *not* good for bedtime reading.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    PlayboyJoeShmoe said:
    BUT! I do not think a direct up and down vote by each individual would be good for the USA. Because just as soon as people find that they can vote themselves 'goodies' it is ALL OVER!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This reminds me of a memorable quote from Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813). A Scottish jurist and historian, he was widely known in his time and was professor of Universal History at Edinburgh University in the late 18th century.

    The quotation is from the 1801 collection of his lectures:

    <ul type="square">"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

    The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

    from bondage to spiritual faith;
    from spiritual faith to great courage;
    from courage to liberty;
    from liberty to abundance;
    from abundance to selfishness;
    from selfishness to complacency;
    from complacency to apathy;
    from apathy to dependency;
    from dependency back again to bondage."[/list]
    I would venture that we, as a nation, are somewhere between complacency and apathy, with many marginal groups/constituencies closer to dependency (and even a few already back to bondage).

    OzMan

  25. #25
    *Flashaholic* PlayboyJoeShmoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    That is why for at least a few minutes longer this country is a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC.

    And I don't think lock-step with any of our reps, but I still agree more of the time with Republicans, and disagree MOST of the time with Democrats.

    And any sort of one person one vote democracy is doomed before it is ever tried!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Deep breath everybody (this is one step before "group hug" so be careful!).

    Small reminder to freely attack the post, but not the poster. Presenting and refuting ideas allows us all to learn. Attacking individual members for their ideas or comments doesn't allow us to learn much of anything. Nobody has really stepped over that elusive line yet, but I just have this little tick in my eye that warns me that the big step may be coming...

    Thanks guys. Have at it.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    [ QUOTE ]
    Willmore said:
    You said:
    Which implies that even though someone may only fully agree with 75% of the issues of a party at first look, they should 'look deeper' and see that they truly agree with the rest. I think that's the same as saying 'suck it up' for the other 25%.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, my point was that if you vote the same as a republican or a democrat 75 percent of the time then regardless of what you tell yourself there is no functional difference between you and the republican or democrat. My sub point was that the mischaracterization that party members vote the same as their party every time is a disingenuous impossible standard that noone in reality follows but is put forth by self described independants who need a cartoonish standard against which to define themselves.

    And then you took my statements and did exactly that.

    [ QUOTE ]

    Don't blame your inability and unwillingness to clearly articulate your meaning on me. Say your piece.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I did, three times now. It doesn't appear to be my ability that's in question at this point, except perhaps in your eyes, which again is not reflection on my ability.

    [ QUOTE ]

    You also made the assertion that people who claimed not to be fully defined by *one* party title and who were self declared independents were just popularity seeking poseurs. That is what with which I take issue.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats close, my actual assertion is that they're lying to themselves regarding how conservative or liberal they are.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Republican all the way.

    Why?

    Easy.

    Republicans have all the money.

    How else can I afford an RV and a Flashlight collection?

    I mean if I were one of those touchy-feelie, share the wealth ... well, next thing you know, the flaming liberals would want me to share my flashlight collection with the poor.

    Yeah, right ... like that's ever gonna happen!

    However, if one of you liberal types would like to "share" your lights ... I'd like one of those hard anodized E thingies.

    Email me for my address!

    PS --- Urge your congressman to vote for the tax relief package. Means more money in your pockets to spend on flashlights!

    Seriously!

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    MichiganMan,

    I think both of our points are well stated at this point and, though I disagree with you, I see no point in further discussion as there seems little chance in either of us convincing the other and we're just going to bore everyone else if we continue.

    Seem fair?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Republican/Democrat/Other...

    Hmmm. Well, I'v pretty consistently voted with one party, but...

    I would call myself a "centrist".
    I'm not really interested in too many ideas that are too far right or too far left.

    1. Fiscally conservative

    The idea of borrowing money for a tax cut is not one that I'd support.

    If we've collected a surplus...it should be given back to the people that paid it in...in the same proportion we collected it in the first place.

    If we DON'T have a surplus...NO tax cut.

    2. The constitution

    It has meaning. It isn't just some "old document" in a glass case. Examples:

    I think Clinton should have resigned for having sexual relations with an intern in the oval office and then lying about it to the American public.

    But...I don't think he should have been impeached. Impeachment should be reserved for bribery, treason, violating the constitution, etc...not, lying about a sexual affair. He wasn't removed from office anyway...it was just a political maneuver that accomplished nothing and cost of lot of money and time that should be been spent elsewhere.


    Violations of law by presidents that should have led to impeachment:

    a. Reagan for sending support to the Contras after Congress passed a law specifically prohibiting that.

    b. George W. Bush for invading Iraq with no declaration of war (required by the constitution he swore to uphold).

    3. Defense

    We need a STRONG defense. Weak countries attract trouble.

    4. Veteran's benefits

    We should NOT be cutting veteran's benefits! People that are willing to put their lives on the line for America should NOT get short changed later when everyone has forgotten about the war!

    After having furnished these examples, I should also point out that many of the policies I think make sense...most Americans don't share. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So...although I think of myself as a centrist...maybe it's a pretty narrow center! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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