confused again!!!

The good news is I know where to go to get the right info!

CFP! :thumbsup:

Bad news is I'm still far more an "asker" than an "answerer" (if that's a word).

My "flashaholic" addiction started with an UltraFire C3 (I paid WAY too much for at a gun show a few years ago), but that first Cree had me hooked on lights in general.

Batteries were becoming an expense so not knowing better, I bought one of those cheap and slow chargers from Energizer (slides open and closed) and some of their 2500 mAh "E2" batteries.

Never really used them though...didn't like the idea of "self discharge".

Never got around to buying hybrids either...probably would have if I stuck to AA lights but as things worked out I gravitated toward C123 size pocket lights. (and in Florida, gotta have big cell "hurricane" lights).

The other day I got my first digital camera that uses AA cells (Canon SX10 IS...wonderful camera!). So I figured NOW I have a use for those NIMH cells. (Had four packs of four each and two had never even been opened).

I have and in the past had other Canon point and shoot cameras, and like those, this camera doesn't give much warning when the battery is about to fail. (Canon seems to do just about everything else right...why not such a seemingly simple thing? I had a cheap (free from Cingular) Sony cell phone that told me the exact percentage of remaining usable battery life

The other Canon cameras I had and have all use proprietary LIon batteries. I could easily go on a week long vacation and depend on two charged batteries without any concern about running out of juice.

Today I noticed that I had to change batteries (camera shut down completely) when the voltage was 1.18x - Not far off the nominal 1.2 volts. Fully charged I think they read a tiny bit above 1.3 volts.

I haven't been taking pictures "normally"...I've been experimenting with all the modes and effects. Too many settings to remember. Owner's manual is 288 pages and STILL I had to call technical support to find out stuff I couldn't find in the manual (those guys are good!!!).


So I'm just kind of confused. Can it be that I can really get what might be a couple of hundred photos out of the NIMH cells and only see the voltage drop a bit over one tenth of a volt? (x4). And shut down only .015 from the nominal 1.2 volts?

If so, then the hybrids (at least the good ones like Eneloops......just read the thread on the Radio Shack hybrids..LOL) would seem like an ideal way to go. My (obvious?) concern with the NIMH cells being that when I finally have the camera "mastered" (if that's even possible), and the camera is sitting in a drawer for a month or more and I go to grab it and NEED it to be working........I don't want a dead battery. The primary lithiums would eliminate that risk, but at a good cost. I don't hesitate to use them in ALL my flashlights (in the sizes available), but I only run them for short periods of time.

Strange - I could swear that I had read in a review somewhere before I bought this camera that finally Canon had a "normal" and adequate battery power indicator. Guess it could have been a different model. (been "window shopping" the newer Canon DSLRs for a while, so it could have been one of those.


Peace,
D.

Good timing on your question! I'm much more an questioner myself, but I can give you a bit of input.

I have a Canan A630. I tried alkalines once and they were ok. I used Energizer Lithium and couldn't believe how many photos I took. I just bought some Eneloops and did an experiment with them "right out of the box". Without charging them (the camera uses 4 AA batteries), I was able to get 1,621 photos at 3264 x 2448 resolution with the flash used on every photo. I wonder how many pictures that would be without the flash.

Also, my low warning has been ok sometimes, not so good others. But, as I'm finding out, it seems more likely a cause of battery mismatching, not the camera. Every time the camera died quickly after warning, I noticed that one cell was almost drained while others were still in good shape.

Hope this helps.

Yes. Hybrids(LSD) are the way to go. With them, I can have my camera sitting for months, then decide to take MANY pictures, then store the camera for another few months and then STILL be able to take many pictures.

If your camera has a voltage sensitive cutoff, which it sounds like it might, then Eneloops would be the way to go, more than the other LSD cells.

With any of the LSD variety cells though, you will also notice that your flash will recharge in split-seconds. I'm not kidding here! I had to take a picture with the LCD on and watch the flash-charging indicator light to even see it blink once or not at all!

As far as your charger, you may want to invest in the BC-700, BC-900, or Maha C9000. They will get you the most performance out of any battery you choose, plus you will be able to match up the like-cells. That will give you the longest run-times on a set of cells.
Starting out, if you don't want to spend that much, just get a bc-700. You can find one on Amazon right now for $32 with free shipping. Plus they also have a set of 4 AA Eneloops for $11 for inclusion with the free shipping deal.


(Trying to now be an answerer.) :wave:

Delij said:

So I'm just kind of confused. Can it be that I can really get what might be a couple of hundred photos out of the NIMH cells and only see the voltage drop a bit over one tenth of a volt? (x4). And shut down only .015 from the nominal 1.2 volts?

Click to expand...

Check out the voltage curves on this very informative thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/79302

There you can see that a) the voltage varies between 1.4 V and 0.9 V. The nominal V of 1.2 is a kind of the average voltage; b) The voltage curve is quite flat and c) the voltage itself is not a very good indicator of the state of the batteries (this is even more true for the open circut voltage).

Great info guys!!!

Looks like Eneloops are in my immediate future. I think they have them at Walmart which is close. (I guess these days almost anyone can say that). But since I'll need 8 cells for the camera (2 sets of 4) and I'm not in any hurry, I'll check their prices against Amazon....free shipping and no sales tax (and I already know how much less they are selling the 8GB Sandisk cards for then Walmart).

I do have a whole bunch of AA Lithiums (and a ton of C123) but I guess I'll use those in the flashlights. I have enough to last for years. (I guess if I outlive my stash of primary lithiums I can get more eneloops for the lights (actually I have so few AA lights now, maybe not worth it...I think I have a half dozen Inova x1 and one C3 Ultrafire and gave everthing else away...Nope..just checked, I have a one watt and a 3 watt Rayovac (each 2xAA...I like those, and an Inova 2xAA Bolt which is just to round out my Inova collection (had to have at least on of each - glad they only come in one color...those XO, XO3 and X5s added up! (sure do feel nice though):twothumbs...but I keep thinking that the lithiums would be the better cells for lights that COULD sit unused longer than than they ever are likely to in the the camera (some of them) and others I have no choice but to use alkaline (large mags, and old C & D cell "shop" lights.....and some other hurricane stuff like a little battery operated TV, one of those flashlights with a radio with the weather band, etc. - (Other than my big Mag LED, I actually do take the batteries out of my hurricane stuff).

As for the mismatched cells causing the warning light to seem useless, I kind of doubt it in my case. Right now I have a Canon SD450 with one Canon brand battery and one off-brand (whith higher mHa and MUCH cheaper - both seem good and t I've measured the eight NIMH batteries I've used and all are within .o1 volts of each other both right off the charger and also aftere the camera spits them out.-

My reluctance on the eneloops was the NIMH not working with 1.183 volts. Seems like such a tiny degree of leway off the 1.2.

I haven't even tried any alkalines yet (camera came with 4). I guess eventually I'll start taking pictures and stop screwing around with the menues and then I can do a comparison. (by then I can try alkaline, lithium, NIMH and LSDs.

The results you guys are getting with the hybrids are mind bogling! 1600 pics at high res? And a virtually instant flash?


Now with this camera I can actually post some beam-shots.(20x zoom could be interesting). I never tried with the SD...no control over anything but ISO. No one seemed to believe that with the Mag brand drop in LED I could putt on the green behind my house with my son holding the Mag on the Tee on a 180 yard par 3. !!! (still has a hot spot at 600 feet - a bit more spread out than on my bedroom ceiling - LOL

Seems bright to me! But consensus is Mag doesn't have it togther with LEDs. Sort of scary to me if I'm missing out on ANYTHING that would put that to shame:huh:

Peace,
D,.

Follow up question:


OK, to follow up on my previous inquiries in this thread....

Today I saw that my local Walgreens had Duracel "Pre-Charged" 2000 mHa cells on sale. According to several posts in several threads both here and on some camera forums (most of which gave links to CFP...I guess this is the recognized ultimate "last word" source) - these are rebranded Eneloops (they are the Japanese cells with the white tops (they did have both white and black top (around the positive terminals). From what I read, the black are Chinese and not a Sanyo product (Eneloop) if I understood correctly.

I had my Energizer NIMH cells in the camera. They had been running strong for a couple of days (mostly playing with menues as opposed to taking pictures...still). Not much use of the flash. But overall, it seemed like a lot of battery use (comparing to what I get from a single 3.7 volt LIon rechargeable in a tiny "elf" point and shoot camera).

To run the batteries down I just set it on "movie" mode and that did it.

Now my question is this. (or these).

Hypothetically...what is the most preferred battery for (say) a vacation where a charger may or may not work without an adapter. And secondly, if price and time (to recharge) are not factors, what's best?

The regular (non LSD) Energizers are rated at 2500 mHa. The Duracel hybrids at 2000 and the Energizer "8x longer" lithium primaries have no rating (that I can see) for mHa. (I realize if I were to use the camera once a year and remember to remove the batteries, the lithiums should last 10 or 15 years, but I'm thinking more use....at least a couple of hundred pictures a month (after deleting the garbage maybe I'll have a half dozen "keepers"). LOL

Which rechargeable battery would last the longest without needing to be changed? I know the hybrids will last longer when NOT used, but what about in heavy use?

Which battery (if any) would power the camera and flash fastest? (I couldn't tell with the built in flash but I think I'm going to need an additional flash for the shoe).

Also I was surprised and confused (for a change) LOL

I measured the voltage of the Energizer NIMH batteries when the camera shut down. All four were still showing voltages ABOVE the nominal 1.2 volts (all were at 1.214-1.217). They started at 1.362 volts, so they lasted for a lot of use and only lost about ~.15 volt? The Duracells (I have not used them in the camera yet, just put them in)....but I measured the "pre=charged" voltage and it was right 1.287. Seems awfully close to the cut off point the camera shut down at with the energizers (.057 volts?) Seems like an awfully small amount of "headroom".

Am I missing something?

Thanks again for any input.

I realize maybe the batteries need to be "conditioned"...but I'm not sure what that means exactly... (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing). I suppose putting them through a few cycles? Will that give me more "starting" voltage off the charger? Or does it not matter?

The primary lithiums seem to have a TON of "headroom" in comparison (as far as voltage). They come out of the package at over 1.7 volts...quite a difference from 1.287!

Thanks for any explanations that are geared to a completely confused and not very bright guy (well, I can be "bright" but only with my flashlights, but that's about it). LOL

Peace,
D.

I'll see if I can answer anything for you!

Delij said:

I had my Energizer NIMH cells in the camera. They had been running strong for a couple of days (mostly playing with menues as opposed to taking pictures...still). Not much use of the flash. But overall, it seemed like a lot of battery use (comparing to what I get from a single 3.7 volt LIon rechargeable in a tiny "elf" point and shoot camera).

To run the batteries down I just set it on "movie" mode and that did it.

Click to expand...

That doesn't sound like much use of the camera, personally, since I have the same one. I also purchased a set of chinese LSD cells. I charged them fully and then did an experiment taking photos using the flash each time. I got 2,964 pictures out of that charge. The flash charged instantaneously for the first 2,000 photos and after that it took 1-3 seconds for it to be charged. I suspect the Eneloops would provide exactly the same performance.

I know that the Energizer 2500 are notorious for self-discharging and I suspect they were pretty low when you used them. I'm totally amazed at the difference a good set of cells makes to the camera. I'm not talking a few more shots here and there, either, but quite simply, a good set of cells is like a dozen sets of cheap ones.

For your vacation, I think a good set of LSD such as the Eneloops is going to be the key. Although they are only rated at 2,000 mAh, they are close to their rating. Many others aren't. I have some plain NiMh rated at 2,700 mAh and they all come in right around 1,600. Also, your Energizers would likely self discharge over your vacation to the point where your camera would show low battery or shut down. The Eneloops will not, so the battery is used for taking pictures rather than discharging itself.

I think what you'll find is that with a reliable set of cells you trust your camera more and know that it will be there when you want it. That's what I found. And for extra comfort, take a spare set with you (or two).

You could also look at purchasing an adapter to work with the voltage in the area you will be vacationing. This way your charger works and you have extra assurance of having batteries.

And finally, just as extra backup, you could buy a set of Lithium primary cells. They will last for years on the shelf and they work wonderfully in our camera, too! I used those same Energizer lithium primaries that you mentioned. However, it may be a bit of overkill if you have a couple of sets of Eneloops with you.

I measured the voltage of the Energizer NIMH batteries when the camera shut down. All four were still showing voltages ABOVE the nominal 1.2 volts (all were at 1.214-1.217). They started at 1.362 volts, so they lasted for a lot of use and only lost about ~.15 volt? The Duracells (I have not used them in the camera yet, just put them in)....but I measured the "pre=charged" voltage and it was right 1.287. Seems awfully close to the cut off point the camera shut down at with the energizers (.057 volts?) Seems like an awfully small amount of "headroom".

Click to expand...

As I have learned here, if you measure voltage of a battery with a regular voltmeter or DMM, it doesn't give the true voltage. Only measuring the cell under load is completely accurate. The C9000 does this. The camera would place the batteries under load and when it did shut down, they were quite likely much lower than your reading.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you use the Duracells. Remember that they have sat for a while and have experienced some self-discharge. You should find that you get great results from them, and when fully charged and used again, it will be even better.

Hope this helps!

Measuring Voltage: OPEN CIRCUIT vs UNDER LOAD...

Delij said:

...Today I noticed that I had to change batteries (camera shut down completely) when the voltage was 1.18x - Not far off the nominal 1.2 volts. Fully charged I think they read a tiny bit above 1.3 volts...

...So I'm just kind of confused. Can it be that I can really get what might be a couple of hundred photos out of the NIMH cells and only see the voltage drop a bit over one tenth of a volt? (x4). And shut down only .015 from the nominal 1.2 volts?

Click to expand...

Delij said:

...My reluctance on the eneloops was the NIMH not working with 1.183 volts. Seems like such a tiny degree of leway off the 1.2...

Click to expand...

Delij said:

...I measured the voltage of the Energizer NIMH batteries when the camera shut down. All four were still showing voltages ABOVE the nominal 1.2 volts (all were at 1.214-1.217). They started at 1.362 volts, so they lasted for a lot of use and only lost about ~.15 volt? The Duracells (I have not used them in the camera yet, just put them in)....but I measured the "pre=charged" voltage and it was right 1.287. Seems awfully close to the cut off point the camera shut down at with the energizers (.057 volts?) Seems like an awfully small amount of "headroom".

Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

Yes.

One CRUCIAL detail that wasn't discussed in your previous replies is HOW you're measuring voltage: OPEN CIRCUIT or UNDER LOAD

OPEN CIRCUIT most discharged cells will return to 'near' 1.2VDC. It's when you ask them to do some work / deliver some current UNDER LOAD that the voltage will drop. Picture a runner in a marathon. At the starting line, he's standing 6' tall with plenty of power in his legs. At the finish line, he's still standing 6' tall (well, maybe he's slouching down to 5' 10" from fatigue) but his legs have much less power in them now. He may be able to WALK a bit further, but RUNNING will be difficult.

That's why you'll see discussions here comparing DMMs vs Battery Testers when attempting to determine cell capacity. DMMs are measuring OPEN CIRCUIT voltage. (Some) Battery Testers apply a LOAD. That's why you're only seeing those tiny differences when using your DMM. Place a LOAD on the cell and you'll see it drop. How much it drops depends on how 'heavy' the load.

In the various cell performance threads you find discussions on cell CAPACITY. Folks ask questions why 'Tom' got different results than '****' or 'Harry' from the same type of cell (2000mAh 'name-brand' AA NiMH for example). One of the reasons is the RATE of discharge (weight of the load). A low RATE of discharge will allow a cell to maintain it's voltage longer and deliver more current over time. Just looking at the numbers, one might expect a 2000mAh cell to be able to deliver EITHER 100mA for 20hrs or 2000mA for 1hr. But, in actuality, it won't. While it may deliver 100mA for possibly 18-19hrs (1800-1900mAh), it might only be able to deliver 2000mA for 45min (1500mAh). [NOTE: These numbers are for explanatory purposes only. Hardcore CPF Gurus will be able to check their spreadsheets and tell you EXACTLY how many hours what cell can delivery at what rate of discharge. ]

CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and read some of the articles in the Battery section. There's also a Battery Tester LINK at the bottom of the page. After several hours of reading, I'm sure that your current 'fog' will begin to clear.

I have an older Olympus D540. Going by the low battery indicator, batteries don't last very long. The reviews that I have read online, say pretty much the same thing. IMO what I think is going on is that the low battery circuit is probably set up for alkaline batteries where the voltage drops a lot under the 725ma current of the camera (LCD on, but camera idling otherwise). So what I do is run NMH batteries until the camera finally quits working altogether. The low battery indicator flashing most of that time. I always carry 4 to 8 extra batteries (the camera takes only 2). So the bottom line is that the low battery circuit is just set at too high of a voltage.

Hello Delij,

On a vacation, take your NiMh rechargeable cells and a charger. As a back up, bring along some Energizer primary lithium AA cells. Try to use the NiMh cells as much as possible, but if you can't charge, just use the primary lithium cells.

In immediate use, the cell with the highest actual capacity will last the longest. Please note that there may be a difference between what is on the label and what the cell actually is capable of.

In extended use, with lots of downtime between uses, the low self discharge cells may perform better than most, but the Powerex 2700 mAh cells seem to outperform the Eneloop cells for several months, with regard to capacity available. The Eneloop cells seem to maintain a higher voltage under load, so this is not a totally fair comparison. You may find that the Eneloop cells will work longer, because of the higher voltage, even though they have less capacity.

In order to know which would work best with your flash we need to know how your flash works. If it has a regulator that steps the voltage up, then it wouldn't make much difference. If it is direct drive, then the cells that provide the highest voltage under load would work better.

Others have covered the difference between open circuit voltage and voltage under load, so you can read what they had to say about that.

Tom

Hi guys...thanks so much for all your very comprehensive and quick responses. (I wish less of it was over my head, but I did get the gist of most of it).

One question went either unanswered or it didn't register as should have in my tiny brain...

Question seems simple enough.

If time (charging time, whatever) and MONEY both are of not concern (this is hypothetical since money is always a concern), would the primary lithium batteries be (overall) in any way preferable to the low discharge rechargeables?

It seems (from my "unenlightened" perspective) that aside from the expense, I can see an advantage as far as cold weather performance (not as much a factor in Florida as it was when I lived in Colorado). And they are lighter (four batteries in the camera and a spare set...not a huge difference, but still a factor).

But most importantly, it seems that shelf life would be best with the primary lithiums compared to any other AA size batteries.

So that stuff aside...(operating temperature range and weight)...what about performance in the camera? (I use them in my flashlights for the shelf life, but the flashlights could easily go unused for long periods of time).

My concern with the camera would be which would last longer in constant use...the lithiums or the LSD rechargeables?

I learned from the above posts that the tiny difference I see in voltage without a load between a charged and depleted LSD cell is not much. And I think I'm beginning to understand that concept (although I'm still surprised that my camera shut down when the NON "lsd" rechargeables still showed more than the nominal 1.2 volts).

(I'm kind of anxious that the camera didn't even give a warning...usually it does...maybe it had something to do with me using it on "movie" mode ...or it's possible I just didn't see it I suppose).

So all else aside....it seems that money and time taken out of the equation that the primary lithiums should last the longest...but again, this is beyond my scope of knowledge. The package says "lasts up to 8 times longer than" (alkalines?).

The Eneloop type batteries (my Duracells for example, which some say ARE re-branded Eneloops) don't give any comparisons on how long they last IN USE. They just are clearly more reliable as far as shelf life, and some people here seem to get astounding numbers of photos on a single charge....So, if, for example, someone could get 1000 photos with the Eneloops on one charge, given the same type usage (flash, no flash, viewfinder or LCD, etc.), what would be the realistic expectation of a lithium battery in comparison? Or is this a question that doesn't have an answer? (although it does seem simple on the surface). I always wondered why the Energizer lithiums never show their mHa figures....or other than price (which is close) if there's a difference between the "Ultimate" and the "Advance" versions (For that matter why is it that some packages say "7 times" and some say "8 times" (and I guess the "lowly" Advanced are only "4 times"? - I also just noticed that the "7 times" have "E2" on the label and the "8 times" don't - is it just new packaging? Same batteries? Different? I forget...I mostly have a big stash of the CR123 and some CR2 (CR2 batteries for one flashlight and one camera...123 batteries for the vast majority of lights...love my little Fenix P1s!!! If I had half a brain I'd start selling off my flashlight collection before they all become obsolete.

Thanks all...one day soon I hope to be able to give answers and not just ask questions (I can and do give WAY more answers on some of the handgun boards...I know the Springfield XD and 1911 pistols and the 10/22 Ruger rifle at an "expert" level by almost any standard...it would seem a battery should be less complicated. But of course that's not the case....one topic is about chemistry and the other about mechanics).

I'll get there. Just hope it's sooner than later. Meanwhile I can't adequately express my gratitude for all the help.

Thanks again to all,

Peace,
D.

Lithium primaries (Energizer Ultimate) will give you longer runtime in almost any device vs LSD NiMH.


However, it's up to you to justify $2.50 per cell per use, vs $0.005 per cell per use.

Hello Delij,

The Energizer lithium primary cells have a capacity of about 3000 mAh. Since Eneloop cells have about 2000 mAh, the lithium primary cells should last longer in your camera.

Since price is not a concern, you would be better off using the lithium primary cells.

Tom

I'm going to try to explain, using the best analogy I can, why you can read 1.2V on a cell that is too dead to run the camera:

A cell is like a water tank up on a tower. The inside of the tank has a large sponge installed. A pipe leads down to ground level. The elevation of the tank provides water pressure at ground level. The elevation is like voltage.


You open up a valve at the bottom of the tank and start to drain off the water (operate camera/flashlight etc), most of the water drains off steadily, but there is a slight drop in pressure as the tank empties since the water level elevation keeps dropping slightly as it goes. When most of the water has been drained from the tank (cell is mostly empty), the sponge is sort of like "restricting" that last bit of water from escaping, gravity is still pulling water from the sponge, but the drain rate at the bottom of the pipe is greater than the sponge is releasing water, so the water level rapidly falls in the pipe (voltage under a load DROPS RAPIDLY), the effective water pressure at the base becomes very low, the valve is shut off (device shuts off due to low battery), but remember, the sponge still had a little bit of water in it, that water is still trickling down into the pipe, in short order, the pipe leading down from the tank has been filled with water that was in the tower. Pressure at the base of the tank is high again (1.2V), but if you opened the valve, there wouldn't be anything behind that pressure to maintain it, you would drain the pipe almost instantly when opening the valve, and the pressure would drop again.

You are taking a reading of the water pressure and scratching your head as to how the tank could possibly be empty if the pressure is still high, now you know how this can happen.

Eric

Marduke said:

Lithium primaries (Energizer Ultimate) will give you longer runtime in almost any device vs LSD NiMH.


However, it's up to you to justify $2.50 per cell per use, vs $0.005 per cell per use.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response Marduke...

Yes, like I said, the question was hypothetical. I might not even have asked if I were not more than a bit confused as to why the only AA type batteries that don't state mHa ratings are the primary lithium cells. (as far as I know).

The hybrids are new to me (bought my first ones yesterday) as is the camera (first digital camera I ever had that didn't use a proprietary LIon battery). Since I generally use SLR cameras for work and the smallest point and shoot pocket camera (digital Canon Elf) for my personal snapshots (I actually slip it into my camera case when I'm working - otherwise I keep it in a cell phone "holster"), this AA battery stuff is all new to me.. (Other than for a motor drive for a film camera (I don't use) and a grip on a digital SLR (I also don't use).

Before changing from film to digital (not my choice...orders from the owner of the company), the only batteries my camera's had just powered the light meters and self timers (and most self timers were mechanical until relatively recently)..The light meters (as far as I know) only use battery power to illuminate the tiny LEDs in the viewfinder...(I have a 40 or 50 year old light meter with NO batteries that works perfectly)..so two tiny (hearing aid size) button cells can and do last me years on the film cameras.

My wife has a more modern ..seven or eight year old? (film) camera with a single CR2 cell that powers the zoom lens (all my film cameras have manual zooms) AND powers the auto focus AND the film winder, and the LCD readouts AND (most amazingly to me) the flash too (with the "pre-flash" to reduce red-eye).......All that and still, she did not need her first battery change for well over a year!! (totally shocked me but sure made me VERY impressed with primary lithiums).

Thanks again.

Peace,
D.

Actually none of the primary batteries give mAh ratings on the label, neither alkaline, nor lithium. Most people would not know what they meant, and as I mentioned in another post somewhere there is no single number anyway. For an alkaline cell you can get almost any mAh measurement you like from zero to the max depending how you choose to measure it.

Personally, I use Eneloops in my Canon digital camera and they work excellently. I can leave the batteries in it for months at a time and forget about them, and the camera always works when I pick it up.

Mr Happy said:

Actually none of the primary batteries give mAh ratings on the label, neither alkaline, nor lithium. Most people would not know what they meant, and as I mentioned in another post somewhere there is no single number anyway. For an alkaline cell you can get almost any mAh measurement you like from zero to the max depending how you choose to measure it.

Click to expand...

Yep, you are right. I stand corrected.

Mr Happy said:

Personally, I use Eneloops in my Canon digital camera and they work excellently. I can leave the batteries in it for months at a time and forget about them, and the camera always works when I pick it up.

Click to expand...

Good to know (and what I expected). Since I bought this camera for work though, if it turns out to do what I hope it means I won't have to carry a ton of heavy lenses and at least two heavy SLRs. So there's not much chance the camera will sit in a drawer. (This camera..the Canon SX10 IS has a 20x zoom with image stabilization. I can't come close to that range with all the lenses I have and have ever had put together in a 40 year career..

Now I just have to hope the quality of the pictures is acceptable. The camera is slow (lag) but for portraits that's a non issue.


My questions were more "curiousity" questions. Like if the hybrids would last as long, not as long or the same as regular NIMH. ...Or primary lithiums. I got the answer on the lithiums...they are apparently the winner but at a huge cost.

I was pretty impressed that the standard Energizer NIMH batteries lasted as long as they did - I realize that the hybrid batteries won't self discharge, but if used intensely like I use the camera when working, that's not an issue for me (I'll either use the camera constantly or not at all...sitting in drawer won't happen...it would go on Ebay first).

I don't know if I ever specifically asked or not, but do the hybrids give up useful life (working time under load) on the one hand while gaining shelf life on the other hand?

In the most simple terms I can think of...If I put the hybrids in the Energizer bunny and regular NIMH in his twin brother...will they both be marching and banging their drums equally as long? Or will one outlast the other?

Thanks,
D.

Delij said:

In the most simple terms I can think of...If I put the hybrids in the Energizer bunny and regular NIMH in his twin brother...will they both be marching and banging their drums equally as long? Or will one outlast the other?

Click to expand...

If the NMH batteries are 2500mah, and the hybrids being ~2000mah, and they both came off the charger at the same time and placed in the "bunnies" right afterwards, then the 2500mah NMH's would win. If all the batteries sat unused for 3 months or more, and then installed in the "bunnies" then the hybrids would win.

mdocod said:

I'm going to try to explain, using the best analogy I can, why you can read 1.2V on a cell that is too dead to run the camera:

A cell is like a water tank up on a tower. (edit)....

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Great analogy. I hope you are a teacher. For the sake of the kids like me who needed things put in terms that are understandable to the most thick headed! LOL

Seriously...very good explanation. Thanks!

Peace,
D.

Delij said:

Since I bought this camera for work though, if it turns out to do what I hope it means I won't have to carry a ton of heavy lenses and at least two heavy SLRs. So there's not much chance the camera will sit in a drawer. (This camera..the Canon SX10 IS has a 20x zoom with image stabilization. I can't come close to that range with all the lenses I have and have ever had put together in a 40 year career..

Now I just have to hope the quality of the pictures is acceptable. The camera is slow (lag) but for portraits that's a non issue.

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Sorry to say, you won't quite get professional pictures from the SX10 IS since it has a point-and-shoot sensor design and it also lacks an uncompressed (raw) image format. For professional quality images you really need a camera from the EOS range.

Image quality from a digital camera depends first on the sensor -- you need the large sensors that only DSLR cameras have to get the kind of contrast, dynamic range, sharpness and tonal balance that film can offer. Second, once you have a good sensor, the image quality depends on the lens. Just as with film cameras, the best lenses make much better pictures than the poorer lenses.

However, depending on your application, you might get acceptable semi-professional results from the SX10. It really depends what the pictures will be used for.