AW C Li-Ion cells, what will you replace them with?

Now that its official that the AW C Li-Ion cells will be no more, what will you replace them with.......the unprotected versions that are available or the new IMR versions that will be available from AW in a few weeks.

The unprotected versions may be a little shorter but most likely have the same run time as the protected ones, have to be careful with the charging and discharging, not sure if you would need a soft start switch.

The IMR cells will have shorter run time and will need a soft start switch for most lamps/bulbs as far as I understand, this means changing switches or updating them somehow in the BigLeef and Fivemega C bodies, with a bit of luck should be able to use the same charger as for the Li-Ion's.

In my case, not much of a choice for my WA1111 and WA1185 based C lights. I feel like I will be going backwards and not forwards.

What is your take on this?

yea, i've just ordered a FM 3 C body! i will be running a WA1185 bulb with the new IMR's from AW, will the runtimes be bad or how do i charge these?

I love the AW C cells, although they take a devilishly long time to recharge. Their loss will make it tough for folks who have, or are selling tubes made for their size, unless they have enough of the cells on hand.

There are options, however. These won't work for the 1x AW C formats, but can be used in longer tubes.



Left-to-right:

A123 Systems 26650 LiFePO4 cell.

Molicel 26670 IMR cell.

AW C Li-Ion.

Both the A123 and Emoli cell will fit, diameter-wise, in the same tube as the AW cell, and will provide even greater current capacity. They both have lower capacity, but both are exceedingly safe cells, without any protection needed. The A123 can be recharged in far less time than either of the others, and while it's nominal voltage is lower, is my choice for cells in this diameter.

LIGHTSMAD said:

yea, i've just ordered a FM 3 C body! i will be running a WA1185 bulb with the new IMR's from AW, will the runtimes be bad or how do i charge these?

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AW says his IMR will be a 26650. You won't be able to fit 3 of them in a 3x AW C tube.

PROTECTED C CELL LI-LION BATTERYS

were can i buy protected C cell li-lion batterys for my new FM3C body??

donn_ said:

AW says his IMR will be a 26650. You won't be able to fit 3 of them in a 3x AW C tube.

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More headaches by the looks of it.......I just have to look after my cells and make sure they last for a long time.....such a pity, just as things were looking good for the protected C Li-Ion, they disappear.

For me, the cost of changing over from the AW C's is not worth it, perhaps I will start to use the unprotected C's that are available and just take more care when I use them.

Don't worry. AW said

"The C cells might not be available again because I feared the steel case supplier has gone out of business ( I can't contact them either by phone or email ). They have the C cell case mold that I paid for and I can't afford to make another one. The IMR26500 that I am working on will replace the protected C cells. ETA is 4 - 6 weeks. Please visit the IMR sales thread for future updates on the IMR26500 cells."

Regards,
AW

So the replacement size is IMR26500, I don't know if the size will fit those 3C tube though!!:thinking:

mikevelarde said:

So the replacement size is IMR26500, I don't know if the size will fit those 3C tube though!!:thinking:

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Right you are! I misread it. 26500 should work nicely. The current AW C is almost exactly that size.

mikevelarde said:

So the replacement size is IMR26500, I don't know if the size will fit those 3C tube though!!:thinking:

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There are too many "tubes" out there based around a combination of the AW C cell/s that it would be quite silly to make anything new based on different dimensions, not sure if anyone would buy them.

....my AW C's are 25.5mm x 53mm.......the new ones will be 26mm x 50mm, if this is the case then people will have to stretch their tail cap springs a little in the 2xC and 3xC lights to make up for the 6mm or 9mm difference.

The A123 systems cells have different charging requirements than the standard Li ion cell (Lithium cobalt) or the imr cell (Lithium manganese) and requires a dedicated charger for proper use. Cobalt and manganese type cells have very similar charging requirements. I looked into the A123 systems cells and could not find a charger for them. Because they are sturdy cells, they will survive being improperly charged in your common IBC or Ultrafire charger but it is not recommended.

is this a maybe

Cells vary in length, no matter how they're advertised. That's why the flashlight gods invented spacers and spring mods.

Here's a good example:



Six different cells, all billed as 18650 in size, and they're all different lengths. Some are a few millimeters different in length. If you measure, you'll find the diameter differs a little, as well.

When you think about it, the AW C Li-Ion cells have been and still are the best C cells out there......highest capacity at 3.3A, had a look at the capacity of some of the unprotected C cells and they are between 2.4A to 2.8A......plenty of bodies designed around it, even have accessories for the C Maglite to be able to use them......don't need a soft start to use them with most of the common bulbs/lamps.......and can be charged by Ultrafire and Pila chargers.

When you are on a good thing, why change?........I know, AW cant get his die/mould back from the failed factory and does not want to spend money on a new one, this is understandable but shouldn't be the end of it, there must be a solution.

cernobila said:

When you are on a good thing, why change?........

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I can think of a couple of reasons:

1. The AW C cell takes a long time to charge...a function of it's high capacity to an extent, but even beyond that, it's a slow charging chemistry. If you compare the run times and charge times with LiFePO4 cells, the A123s come out well ahead, even with lower capacity.

2. There are applications where AW C cells simply cannot provide the current required. Here again, A123 or IMR exceed the AW C's capability to properly drive high current builds.

Don't get me wrong. I love the AW C cell. I have over a dozen of them in use in a variety of lights, and would hate to have to change them out for other type cells. But I will happily exchange them for IMRs or A123s where possible.

donn_ said:

I can think of a couple of reasons:

1. The AW C cell takes a long time to charge...a function of it's high capacity to an extent, but even beyond that, it's a slow charging chemistry. If you compare the run times and charge times with LiFePO4 cells, the A123s come out well ahead, even with lower capacity.

2. There are applications where AW C cells simply cannot provide the current required. Here again, A123 or IMR exceed the AW C's capability to properly drive high current builds.

Don't get me wrong. I love the AW C cell. I have over a dozen of them in use in a variety of lights, and would hate to have to change them out for other type cells. But I will happily exchange them for IMRs or A123s where possible.

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I understand what you are saying and for some people these points apply, but in my case, I would have to throw out most of my C based lights and start again to accommodate the longer A123 cells, economically unfeasible. I also do not have a need or want to build high current builds and therefore do not need other solutions. I would rather (once my C cells will no longer work) go to the 18650 Li-Ions based lights, which I already have.

.......with a bit of luck, it would be years before I have to consider buying more C cells so I have plenty of time to wait for other solutions to come by.

This is very unfortunate.

As others have said, my fear is the lower capacity with the IMR chemistry.

cernobila said:

the new ones will be 26mm x 50mm, if this is the case then people will have to stretch their tail cap springs a little in the 2xC and 3xC lights to make up for the 6mm or 9mm difference.

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For temporary use, I created a spacer to use two alkaline C's in the FM 2xC body with an M30:



However, this was supposed to be only temporary until I could get a SF Turbohead and some serious LiIon capacity & output...:mecry:

Kestrel said:

my fear is the lower capacity with the IMR chemistry

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Well... the capacity of the IMR26500 will be lower than the "C" LiCo, but it will be around 2400mAh, which is not to be sneezed at; and bear in mind LiMn is a safer chemistry. Also, they should be able to handle a current of perhaps 20A or more, so they will be superb for hotwires...

BTW, that is a nice spacer you've made there.

DM51 said:

Well... the capacity of the IMR26500 will be lower than the "C" LiCo, but it will be around 2400mAh, which is not to be sneezed at; and bear in mind LiMn is a safer chemistry. Also, they should be able to handle a current of perhaps 20A or more, so they will be superb for hotwires...

BTW, that is a nice spacer you've made there.

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I keep hearing accolades for the "new" IMR cells but this is my take on them......The 2400 is not much more than 2200 on the 18650 so why bother......people keep saying safer chemistry, I have never had any problems with any of my Li-Ion's, sounds like this is the main selling point of the IMR cells, there will be more blown bulbs and burned out switches than with the Li-Ion's, I am predicting more near injuries with the IMR's......hotwires of 20A or more are a very small percentage of lights out there, the heaviest bulb that I have is the P5761, so again....for me personally, these IMR cells would be a waste of time and resources.

Yes... I do see your point. It's a shame about the "C"s, but I expect in due course AW will find another supplier.

cernobila said:

I keep hearing accolades for the "new" IMR cells but this is my take on them......The 2400 is not much more than 2200 on the 18650 so why bother......people keep saying safer chemistry, I have never had any problems with any of my Li-Ion's, sounds like this is the main selling point of the IMR cells, there will be more blown bulbs and burned out switches than with the Li-Ion's, I am predicting more near injuries with the IMR's......hotwires of 20A or more is a very small percentage of lights out there, the heaviest bulb that I have is the P5761, so again....for me personally, these IMR cells would be a waste of time and resources.

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Dude! Nobody is going to force you to use IMRs! If you don't want to, don't use them, but making up nonsense like your prediction of more "near" injuries is silly. IMRs don't burn out switches or blow bulbs, people do. And they aren't "new." They've more than proven their worth in other-than-flashlight applications.

PS...as far as I can tell, the main selling point for this particular IMR is it will be available to folks who have lights built around the form factor of the AW C cell.