Computer Questions? LONG!

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Alright. I've finally had it. My AMD K-5 166mhz. 48m Ram, Win95 computer has served me faithfully.

But now that I have discovered picture posting, it just ain't got it. Like a frog put into a pot of slowly heating up water, I didn't notice I was cooking.

Site after site has changed to something I just can't see from the house.

Okay, I'm not a huge gamer. I like Yahoo Pool and Blackjack, and Pogo Blackjack online, and some flight sims (A-10 II, F-15E and F-117A)

Graphics are fairly important. I get sent a lot of video clips, and actively seek a lot of stuff.

I have replaced a processor (in a 386 a LONG time ago) and replaced Memory many times (most recently in the Gateway BOMB I'm on right now).

Do I have it in me to build my own machine? And if so, what motherboard? How fast? How many watt power supply?
Will 512M memory do, or should I go Gig?

Anything else I gotta know?
 

Quickbeam

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Some folks will disagree with me, I'm sure, but I have ALWAYS built my own PC using components from Tigerdirect.com. Their printed catalog contains a "key" of sorts with color coded numbers/letters that link a motherboard with the types of processors and memory it takes - just pick out the correctly labeled components and it all works together.

e.g.: Motherboards "A" use Memory "C" and Processors "2" and "3"

Just mix and match depending on your requirements and budget. With today's OS's, it should be pretty much plug and play.

Oh, and make sure the motherboard you get matches the case and power supply you have, otherwise you'll need one of them, too.

One thing I will strongly recommed - get a really good graphics card. It will allow your PC to "last" at least twice as long as without it. Really speeds things up.
 

BF Hammer

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Considering how much some of the lower-end new computers cost at Gateway and Dell these days, there really is no savings advantage to building a new computer from scratch like there used to be 3 or more years ago. However if you want the experience of building, it really is easier to do these days compared to the i386 era. Windows handles most of the resource configuration, no dip switches to set for IRQs, DMAs, etc.

I tend to favor Asus and Gigabyte mainboards, and the AMD processors still give a little better price/performance ratio. For heavy graphics work within WinXP, I would try to have 512MB or better of RAM. Look for a good graphics card that has features geared to video/TV editing rather than 3D gaming for your particular needs.

For assembly, it really is mostly a matter of mounting the mainboard, plugging in the connectors for the front panel switches and lights; installing the hard drive, floppy, and optical drive; connecting the drives to the onboard IDE controller (typical); connecting the power cables; installing the processor and fan (this is in no particular recommended order); powering up and installing the OS and software.

All in all, it's a lot easier and costs about the same to call up Dell or visit your local computer shop and tell them what you want in your computer and have them build it.
 

FalconFX

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Building your own computer should be pretty easy, and at least for me, actually quite exciting and enjoyable.

I'd suggest, as graphics is a high priority, considering:

Pentium 2.4Ghz or higher w/ Hyperthreading
Asus P4C800 Mobo w/ Dual DDR400 capability (Built-in Ethernet, Built-in Sound, but you can go with a Sound Blaster Audigy 2)
1024MB (512MBx2) Corsair DDR400 XMS RAM
100GB+ Western Digital Hard Drive w/8MB RAM and SATA
ATI Radeon 9800 or Nvidia Quadro Series (or at least GeForce4 Ti4200/Radeon 8500 equivalent and up)
TDK or Sony CDRW (highest speed, ie: 52x24x52)
DVD (Creative, Pioneer, etc)
Keyboard, Optical mouse (non-wireless)
WinXPProfessional
Case (CoolerMaster, Lian Li, Antec, etc)
Power Supply: Keep it at or above 450 Watts (Antec, Enermax)

Lots of other choices as well... This is the Pentium route. You can certianly go the AMD route as well...

Unless cost isn't a concern for you, you might consider a price cap to figure out what you can or can't budge in building your own system. But overall, it should not be difficult to tailor it to your own needs.
 

tiktok 22

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Hi Joe,

I'm getting ready to build another one for myself(just built one for my brother, and helped by brother-in-law build two soyo based computers a little while back).

First of all Joe, no doubt you can build it yourself.
Second of all, the computer you build should depend on your needs and cost.

First, you will need a motherboard. I like Asus motherboards (A7N8X & P4G8X). But there are a lot of good motherboards out there (soyo,gigabyte,abit & intel). This is where research comes in. This is the core of your computer, this is where you will want to spend the most amount of time selecting a component. Most main mtherboards are in the ATX form. Your mobo selection will also determine which processor (AMD or Intel) and RAM you will use. Many mobos have onboard features (sound,lan & SATA). These may or may not be features you are looking for. Again, RESEARCH,RESEARCH,RESEARCH!!!

Selecting a case for your computer is less complicated. If using an ATX form motherboard, you will have to choose a case that is also in ATX form. The rest is about features, more bays, front side USB & firewire and so on...

A good beefy power supply(at least 350 watts). I've had good luck with Antec.

Video card. This will depend on your needs, and these can get expensive. Since you said your not much of a gamer, a mid-level card will probably do fine. You might want to consider one with a tv tuner and capture ability. maybe an ATI all-in-wonder?

Sound card. Most mobos come with onboard sound so may not want to purchase one unless you want better sound than the onboard sound can offer.

The rest of the components are pretty much what you want, cd-rw, dvd, card readers and so on...

This is where compatability comes in, some components just don't work well together. Video & sound cards seem to be at the top of the list. Sometimes it's hardware, sometimes it's software. It just takes a little troubleshooting, patience(and prayer).

In my experience, you can build a faster, better computer than you can buy from most vendors(compaq, dell). And one that suits your needs to a T. After building my first one, I would never buy another. Accept a Mac!!!!

Kev
 

James S

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Aug 27, 2002
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I will concur with QuickBeam about tigerdirect.com. I've ordered several times from them and always had good service. So you should definitely check out their large motherboard selection.

I've never bought PC parts from them as I generally purchase pre-build computers that don't run windows except under emulation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif But in buying accessories and other computer parts from them I've had good experience.
 

shrap

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Apr 3, 2003
Messages
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Location
Northern California
I've built my own computer, and it was an unnecessary hassle. True, you get to pick your own top-notch components, and there is the joy of assembly.

However, if anything goes wrong, or you don't get the computer-building bug, it takes up a lot of time to research components, look up prices, reference vendors, wait for shipping, make sure nothing's damaged or backordered, etc. I spent 4 months on my computer, and now I realize that most of those decisions mean nothing.

Computers become so obsolete nowadays I could not recommend buying anything near high-end. My Athlon 1700+ is already ridiculously fast compared with my current computer, a P3 350.

I would just scan www.slickdeals.net and www.techbargains.net and wait until Dell has a sale.

But if you do want to build your computer, here's some advice: don't skimp on the case + PS. Don't get a cheap case that will cut up your knuckles, overheat your processor, have weird voltage spikes, and run out of drive bays. I like Antec's offerings.

Oh yes - don't forget the SFF (small form factor) PCs. They're just too cool, although limited in expandability. They're smaller than toasters. See Shuttle's XPCs.
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Mansfield, OH
Joe;

First of all, you won't need to go with the latest and greatest. That said, we need to determinehow many of what type of slots you need.

Do you need any ISA slots?? Are these things you can replace with PCI cards??

An online shop you can check out is www.internetishop.com I have done business with them and would do so again.

Another place to browse is, of course, eBay.

512 MB should be more than ample, though I use 1 GB ram.

You need a decent AGP video card and ATI makes some decent ones. I use the ATI XPert 2000 Pro AGP.

Building a system is much easier than you might think. I will list my system's components for your perusal.

ASRock Socket A motherboard (eBay)
AMD Athlon XP1700+ cpu (eBay)
Volcano 7 heatsink/fan (eBay)
Soundblaster PCI 128 (eBay)
ATI XPert 2000 Pro AGP (eBay)
2 x 60 GB Western Digital hdds (eBay)
1 x 61 GB Maxtor hdd (place no longer in business)
Microsoft Internet keyboard (Walmart)
Logitech Cordless Mouseman Optical (eBay)
Generic 15 inch TFT flat panel Monitor (eBay)*
Cyberdrive 16x12x40 CDRW (eBay)*
500 watt Power supply (eBay)
Supercase full tower (eBay)**
Dlink DFE-530TX+ (local shop)
2 x 512 MB PC133 SDRAM dimms ( www.memoryonly.com )
HP DeskJet 3820 (Office Max)
Panasonic KX-P1123 Dot Matrix Printer (eBay)

(Where I got item)

* Dutch Auction - internetishop.com
** Internetishop.com carries this item (when I last looked)

Operating Systems: Win98SE and Mandrake Linux 9.0 Powerpack Edition.
 

Brock

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It probably doesn't matter to most people, but AMD chips tend to use about twice the power of Pentium chips. Not a big deal if you're on the grid, but if you leave your computer running all the time or live off grid it makes a difference. I would imagine that AMD's would also need larger power supply's because of this? My Pentium 2 gig pulls about 80w without the monitor, my friends AMD pulls about 190w.
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Good stuff guys!

With the exception of it being very troublesome, this Gateway I'm on is fast enough (1g AMD) with enough Memory (512M) and enough HD for here anyhow at 30g.

Price is pretty important! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

What I would like to do is build something (store bought - particularly Name Brand - has given me a headache).

I intend to go perhaps 1.2 - 1.5g on the processer, am doomed to 56K dialup for the foreseeable future, will do 512 MINIMUM Ram, and will do a BIG HD at least 80g (and hope to hook up the approx 6g in my current 'puter eventually). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

This Gateway has some video issues, but plays the BJ and Pool games okay. It is almost certainly an onboard vid with shared mem, so a mid level graphics card (at least 64k) should do what I want. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My biggest current problem is Java. Even in Netscape I can't do what winME does on the Gateway. I figure a nice speedy processor and modern OS will take care of that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

My current unit was built by a local shop. It has been great, particulary when I put it on a UPS! But all it can really still do well is email, and some browsing. And that shop is gone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

FalconFX

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Then maybe something like a 2.0Ghz Celeron would be good... And something like a Radeon 8500 VIVO, GeForce3 Ti500 or low end GeForce4 VIVO w/128MB onboard video RAM...

Sharkyextreme.com has a few recommendations for low end, mid end and high end gaming system setups that would be more than capable of powering through video/graphics...

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MVGSBG/article.php/2205101 (what you can build with $1000)

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MHGSBG/article.php/2196651 (what you can build with $2500)

And just for kicks:
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/EGBG/article.php/2200301 (what you can build with $4000)

If you go through the list and substitute in and out with less-costly products, or compromise here and there on things you do or don't need, you can arrive at a pretty sweet system...
 

tiktok 22

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Illinois
Hi Joe,

With the price of 1.8 P4 processors at around $130, I would definately opt for a pentium over a celeron. Money well spent.

Just purchased a 120 gig maxtor H.D. for $120 bucks. It's 7200 rpm with an 8 meg buffer. I think Best buy now has Western Digital 200 gig H.D.'s for $180 with rebate.

If you look around, you can definately find good deals.

Kev
 

star882

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Sep 7, 2002
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C:\\Program Files\\CPF
I have:
250w Dell PSU
Pentium 4 2.4GHz w/ 533FSB
640MB 333MHz DDR SDRAM
2x 7200RPM 60GB Western Digital hard drives
PCTV Pro
GeForce 4 MX 420 w/ 64MB RAM
48x24x48x CD-RW
16x DVD-ROM
350w APC UPS
15" TFT monitor
Voltages(measured using DMM with Fear Factor and distributed.net running):
12v: 11.99
5v: 5.02
3.3v: 3.30
Besides the rails being almost perfect, the PSU is very quiet(I cannot hear it over the CPU fan(which is very quiet, too)), so I think the Dell PSU is a modified Antec Truepower(it is WTX instead of ATX(I have heard some rumors that a 250w Dell PSU is a relabeled Antec Truepower 330w)).
Temperature(measured with AIDA32):
PSU(distributed.net running): 112F
PSU(distributed.net and Fear Factor running): 114F
I think the cause of the PSU getting hotter when Fear Factor(which is very GPU intensive) is running is:
1: the video card gets hotter when Fear Factor is running, causing the case temperature to rise and the PSU pulls in hotter air.
2: the video card draws more power from the PSU, causing the voltage regulator electronics to heat up more.
As for building your own, I suggest:
P4 3.0GHz w/ 800FSB
at least 512MB of RAM(DDR333 or higher)
at least 120GB of disk space
ATI Radeon 9500 or higher
Antec Truepower PSU 330w or higher
AntecTruepower.JPG

If you want to buy, go Dell.
 

gbreckley

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Apr 8, 2003
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Location
Redlands, CA
Joe,

You said price was a major issue, I would seriously consider looking into a Dell. For all but High End Systems you are going to save money and headache by buying a Dell. I have been building my own systems since I was 15 back in the 486 Days and while it has gotten easier it is still not easy.

Working as the IT Administrator at my job the biggest problem with computers is software. The hardware goes together pretty easy. Hard to put it in wrong if you pay attention and as long as you don't get into anything to complicated Like a RAID Array or multiple processors or trying to boot multiple operating systems it is not to difficult to do the Operating system installation.

All that said. I would still by a Dell unless you are looking for a gadget fix. If you want to tinker and have the satisfaction of building it yourself then by all means have at it. I order all my parts from http://www.newegg.com Two Sites I would check out http://www.anandtech.com and http://www.hardocp.com Both have a ton of links and awesome articles. I prefer the community in the forum of HardOCP.

Either way good luck.

Greg
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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I've been surfing a lot of the links, and this Gateway has crashed 3 times in less than one hour...

And it's not even the 'puter to be replaced!!!

The sub $1000 on sharkeyextreme.com are what I'm checking up on.
 

The_LED_Museum

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Federal Way WA. USA
Until I got this Dell Dimension 4500, all of my systems have been "garbage dog" pee cees - just motherboards and drop-in cards (mostly ISA) and RAM and keyboards and mouses and monitors that I collected over the years, ranging from parts I got out of dipsty dumpsters, to parts that some CPFers sent, to parts I bought at a local computer shop.
I had crashes ranging from around once a week to many times a day with those - but no fatal crashes on this Dell.
When I restart the Dell, it's of my own free will, not because I got the "blue screen of death" when I try to save a post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 

shrap

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Apr 3, 2003
Messages
276
Location
Northern California
Software is the weak point. I've seen brand new computers running a lot slower and crashing a lot more than my 5 year old P3, because the owners don't take care of their systems. They install any little TSR they find on the internet, randomly download viruses, never defrag, have "cool" animated wallpaper and icons, junk that makes a mess of your OS.
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Mansfield, OH
My system is 100 percent stable in both Win98SE and Mandrake Linux 9.0 Powerpack Edition. I also use an Internet Office UPS, on a properly grounded circuit.
 

FalconFX

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Davis, CA
Sharkyextreme's one of the few sites that actually try to build you a decent system at an affordable price. Even though it's considered a "gaming rig", in itself, the parts combined still make for a great general use computer that's more than capable at the graphics/video editing end. The cool thing is, you can probably still shop around for lower prices through Pricewatch, and then splurge on something you really need, like a high Mhz CPU or more Hard Drive space... If you need to go prebuilt system, then I second Dell as the best way to go.
 
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