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Thread: damn, my first burnt out Q5

  1. #1
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    Default damn, my first burnt out Q5



    That there is my 8 month old P3d that`s had daily use and worked fine untill I decided to do a runtime test.

    I set it to high, placed it on a heat sink and kept an eye on it, it stayed slightly warm to the touch but not hot.
    After recharging I repeated but this time on turbo and I periodicly dunked it in water because it was getting hotter than I felt comfortable with.
    After another charged I turned it on and noticed the hot spot was brown, "that`s burnt out.. damn" I said.

    It seems I`ve got my first casualty then, my question is, dispite my best efforts to keep it cool (and it didn`t really get excessively hot), have I just overheated it or has it premeturely failed and I`ve got grounds for a replacement?

    I`ve been eyeing up a new light anyway so haveing to buy a replacement wouldn`t be too bad but based on how easily this one`s burnt out I`d certainly be a lot more paranoid about heat if it hasn`t failed premeturely.
    Last edited by crofty; 04-10-2009 at 05:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Oh b%&!£#, my first burnt out Q5

    Don't tell me - running it on RCR123s?

    BTW, I've edited a word in your thread title. Can you guess which one?
    Resistance is futile...

  3. #3
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    Default damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by DM51 View Post
    Don't tell me - running it on RCR123s?
    Yep - why? have they shot up in heat at the end of the discharge and cooked the led?

    Quote Originally Posted by DM51 View Post
    BTW, I've edited a word in your thread title. Can you guess which one?
    Last edited by crofty; 04-10-2009 at 05:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Oh b%&!£#, my first burnt out Q5

    1. Too much voiltage for the LED.

    2. I edited the title for a reason. By changing it back, you have come close to incurring a suspension of your posting privileges. Please edit it at once - and the version in post #3.
    Resistance is futile...

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    Default Re: Oh b%&!£#, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by DM51 View Post
    1. Too much voiltage for the LED.
    This is not supposed to be a problem with the P3D, it is a buck converter.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DM51 View Post
    2. I edited the title for a reason. By changing it back, you have come close to incurring a suspension of your posting privileges. Please edit it at once - and the version in post #3.
    Sorry I thought you were just messing around because you didn`t remove the instance in the first post aswell, I`m not sure why you want that word removed, it`s not swearing or offensive. At least not in my country, strange.

    I`ve always used RCR123`s hot of the charger and I`ve not read about it been a problem. hmm.

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    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Running it on RCR123's was not a problem, running it at max without external cooling was.

    What was your "heatsink"? Simply laying it on something won't cut it.

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    Flashaholic* Dan FO's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Fenix recommends ONLY PRIMARIES in that light.

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    [off-topic content removed - DM51]

    Ambiant temp was low and the heatsink was a dumb bell weight, just rested it on the top and in turbo mode kept picking it up and dipping it in water. Wasn`t much hotter than when it was on high tbo, which is why I`m so supprised it got damaged.

    I think it was mdocod who recomended secondaries and I didn`t find any reason to doubt that.

    Thanks.

    *edit* there was no off topic comment but whatever
    Last edited by crofty; 04-10-2009 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    **edit** Correction noted thanks Marduke + others
    Last edited by kramer5150; 04-10-2009 at 11:32 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    If you bought the light from 4sevens, you likely are able to get it replaced... even if it was your fault. I'm sure they won't like it... but ... bleh.

    Hope you don't do this again.

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by kramer5150 View Post
    BIG x2... I have never seen fenix or 4sevens recommend RCR123s in that light (and most of their others too).

    People do it (with the smaller 1xRCR123 lights), but theres a REAL risk of overheating the phosphur die running direct drive in this form factor. The lights are too small to adequately conduct heat away from the emitter.
    Man, I had to read this post after getting my RCR's yesterday...

    Would it be safe to use RCR's in a P2D for ~10 minutes or less?
    It seems just as bright as turbo on primaries.
    Fenix: TK10, P2D Q5, LD01, L0P-SE, Nitecore D10, Inova X5, Surefire G2, Mag ROP-LE, Quark AA-Neutral

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by ImGeo View Post
    If you bought the light from 4sevens, you likely are able to get it replaced... even if it was your fault. I'm sure they won't like it... but ... bleh.

    Hope you don't do this again.
    Why would a vendor replace a product that was damaged by using it outside of it's recommendations? I believe with that model it even states you should not use the Turbo mode for more than a couple of minutes at a time even on primaries because of heat build up. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on.

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Fenix P3D/PD30 works fine with RCR123 batteries. I've personally made many runtime tests with P3D and PD30 with RCR123 batteries and without any problems.

    quoute by 4sevens from here.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4sevens View Post
    Those graphs in the first post are 2xcr123a and 2xrcr123. Fenix specs state that it's fine with 2xrcr123. It's a buck circuit.
    I've tested it up to 16v (unofficial )

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan FO View Post
    Fenix recommends ONLY PRIMARIES in that light.
    but it can run on three 123's for nine total volts, it wasnt the rechargeables that killed it was heat im guessing.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by ImGeo View Post
    If you bought the light from 4sevens, you likely are able to get it replaced... even if it was your fault. I'm sure they won't like it... but ... bleh.

    Hope you don't do this again.
    Maybe they won't replace it. Often times LED lights than run on two primary CR123's are running a buck type circuit that drops voltage from the batteries above the vf of the LED, so the LED can run in spec. However, running two RCR123's that can measure 8.4 volts fully charged is something we do at our own risk unless the manufacturer or dealer says it is ok; not just because one of our fellow CPF'ers says it is ok, if indeed that was said by one of our fellow CPF'ers.

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    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan FO View Post
    Fenix recommends ONLY PRIMARIES in that light.
    We're talking about the P3D, not the P2D. The P3D DOES work on 16340's. It will even work on three of them. Voltage is NOT the issue here.

    Quote Originally Posted by crofty View Post
    [off-topic content removed - DM51]

    Ambiant temp was low and the heatsink was a dumb bell weight, just rested it on the top and in turbo mode kept picking it up and dipping it in water. Wasn`t much hotter than when it was on high tbo, which is why I`m so supprised it got damaged.

    I think it was mdocod who recomended secondaries and I didn`t find any reason to doubt that.

    Thanks.
    A dumb bell weight is NOT a heatsink. There is no way for the heat to actually transfer to the mass if you just lay it on top. For continued testing on high (as you did), you need an ACTIVE cooling system, such as the reviews usually use.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    There's very little cooling if you just place the light on something. Very little contact for heat transfer.

    Placing the light in a glass of water would have been a better idea. You could have tested water resistange and runtime at the same time.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    I'm using RCR123's in two P3D's also without any negatives. Common sense is required to manage the heat on turbo mode though. If the light is uncomfortable to the touch then it's become way too hot which I think was proven with this "experiment." The light simply resting on a object doesn't provide a proper thermal pathway. You would need to surround the light tightly with more surface area in contact with the light body in order to draw the heat from it. A good example of this would be something as simple has holding the light in your hand which probably would have kept it cool enough not to damage it. You could also just leave it resting in an inch of cool water for the run-time test on turbo.

    Hopefully you'll purchase another one since they really are great lights. Thanks for the picture too since I've never seen one burned like that before.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* Dan FO's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Here are the specs from the Fenix factory. http://translate.google.com/translat...ari%26rls%3Den

    This is what the factory recommends, not me. I still bet it would not have happened with 2 primaries.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    The driver doesn't push any more current through the LED when using 2 RCR123s. From what I see, the driver might actually be giving LESS current to the LED with 2 RCR123s.

    Numbers from Light reviews(Turbo of P3D-CE Q5):
    2 CR123, 3920 lux at 1 m
    2 RCR123, 3760 lux at 1 m
    Turbo pf P3D-CE:
    2 CR123, 3247 lux at 1 m
    2 RCR123, 2990 lux at 1 m

    If my assumption that the driver gives less current with 2 RCR123s is right, then the LED should have a longer life with RCR123s.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan FO View Post
    Here are the specs from the Fenix factory. http://translate.google.com/translat...ari%26rls%3Den
    Your do not need to use a translator to read the website, it also has an English version.
    The website does specify two CR123 batteries, but as most flashaholic knows, this usual means it will work with any voltage above 5 volt and up to somewhere between 9 to 16 volts.

    The problem arises with lights designed for one CR123 battery, they can not always work with a LiIon cell.
    Last edited by HKJ; 04-10-2009 at 11:37 AM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    So its time for a R2, Right?

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    I had an L2T v2.0 burn out like that. I contacted fenixstore, and sent it in to them. They inspected it, and since it was no fault of mine, they replaced the head for free. I'm not sure if they would do that for you based on the scenario in which it went , nor would I feel comfortable asking them to if I were in that situation.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Thanks guys, I guess I`ll just contact the supplyer and see what they say. The light at no point was so hot that it was uncompfortable to touch, in turbo mode it didn`t got much hotter than on high mode while resting on the heatsink but the whole light did get warm on turbo mode instead of just the head end like it did in high mode hence why I kept dunking it in water.

    I suppose I should of just left it in a big bowl of water to be double shore in the first place, but imo this shouldn`t of failed as easily as it did. It`s not like I left it on in a hot climate to bake.

    nbp, that`s interesting that yours was found to be faulty, If there`s a way to determin if mine didn`t fail because of a fault I`d have no problem paying for another one.

    Will see what the shop says anyway, thanks again.

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    In re-reading your comments I see that you state "slightly warm to the touch but not hot" and also "it was getting hotter than I felt comfortable with." I probably read that the wrong way I guess.

    My first intuition wasn't of course the batteries but I strongly suspected heat. If according to you the light only got slightly warm to the touch I'm somewhat skeptical of a heat related failure since it doesn't sound to me like the LED could be ruined under those circumstances. I've accidentally left a couple of LEDs on or they got switched on in my pocket and did get too hot to handle with bare hands by the time I realized they were on. I'm going to guess about 170 degrees or so but the LED didn't kill itself. In other words, I've had at least of couple of lights that got way hotter than what you're describing and they weren't damaged. In any case, I think it's going to be very hard to determine unconditionally what caused the exact failure.

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    *Flashaholic* Gunner12's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    I'm thinking maybe the light got impacted enough and the thermal glue that they use was weak enough (as in you weren't lucky) that the LED partially separated from the heatsink which cause the heat buildup and cooked the LED.

    Did the tint ever shift blue?

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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    In re-reading your comments I see that you state "slightly warm to the touch but not hot" and also "it was getting hotter than I felt comfortable with." I probably read that the wrong way I guess.
    The first statement referes to the high mode while on the heat sink, the second statement referes to the whole light heating up as apposed to just the head.

    It`s hard to put into words the level of heat but yeah it never got super hot.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner12 View Post
    I'm thinking maybe the light got impacted enough and the thermal glue that they use was weak enough (as in you weren't lucky) that the LED partially separated from the heatsink which cause the heat buildup and cooked the LED.

    Did the tint ever shift blue?
    This is the type of failure I suspect although can`t be sure if the tint did shift, it`s definitely not blue now.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* EngrPaul's Avatar
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    Default Re: damn, my first burnt out Q5

    There is a chance the thermal epoxy let go under the LED. I have opened several of this style Fenix, and the epoxy isn't very rigid. On one light, the emitter didn't pop off when pryed, it just sorta walked off. The epoxy underneath was brown instead of white. Once the thermal epoxy isn't attaching the LED properly, the emitter temperature goes wild.

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