Stanley H.I.D. and 1365 lumen spotlights (Part 2)

[Mr Ted Bear]

Continued from Part 1

Intro and Overview

So based on the reports from cpf member rala, I decided to make a trip to Walmart after dropping off my kids at school (about 815am) I made my way to the automotive department, and started looking for the Stanley HID light, but only could find the Stanley1365 Halogen. There was a price tag on the shelf, but no light. Actually, the light was there, I just didn’t see it because it was behind the Halogens.


Being Friday, I had to head to the office to prepare payroll, so I did not have much time. I cut open the blister pack, squeezed the trigger, and the light flashed on for about 15 seconds and died , pretty much what I expected; batteries needed to be charged. Off to work I went. returned home just after 12 noon, and the charging indicator was green (maybe 3 ½ hours had passed). Time to PLAY !!! But before I continue, let’s look at some pics.


Here’s what the package looks like


Inside the package, this is what you get, AC Charger, DC PowerCord, and wrist strap. Oh, there’s an instructions sheet.



Size comparison



The top has 3 leds (gee, where have we seen this feature before?)



The reflector on the Stanley is 3 ¾ inches, ¼ larger than the N30/L35



The back has an AC charging connector, charge indicator and Hi/Low switch (italics) (much more on this feature too follow)


Inside the package, this is what you get. I couldn’t help myself. I felt compelled to void the warranty. Seems I have this responsibility, obligation….. Anyways, it has a 12 volt /3amp sealed lead battery. Take a close look, an 8,000k bulb, and note that the ballast has 10 wires (much more on this feature too follow). The construction is similar to cordless power tool, nicely done, IMHO.

To be contunued

[Mr Ted Bear]

two stage ballast?


Whats the TO-220 doing there behind the trigger? and whats under the handle? an accessory plug?
the SLA room looks big enough to stuff some IMR cells in

I called the deisgner/importer of the Stanley HID in Deerfield Beach, Florida 2 times on Friday. It's more like a 3 stage ballast (expalnation in part 2). At the base of the pistol grip is a "12volt DC charging port" per instruction book. The instruction book clearly states that the included DC power cord may be used to "operate the unit"... the instruction book has a section about recharging the light using the 12 volt charger, and in parenthesis (optional accessory). The second sentence of this section reads "plug the double tip of the supplied 12 volt charger".... Bottom line, the DC cord can operate, and/or recharge the battery.


With regards to the TO-220 (Semiconductor Controlled Rectifier) in the base of the handle, it's wired in series with the DC charging port, the third leg leading to the pc board in the end-cap of the unit. My guess is that the TO-220 is being used to regulate current? Sorry, graduted in Physics, not electircal engineering

[Mr Ted Bear]

The hii/low switch does do some thing... read part 2

Part 2 - How It Works & Thinking Outside the Box

Quoting myself, “this light ROCKS.”, “…It's more like a 3 stage ballast”, and “This light, with it's pistol trigger, is very unique.” , it is now time to offer an explanation for these comments .In post #24, I stated that the light “flashed on” the very first time I squeezed the trigger. I chose my words carefully when I made that statement. Un-like any other HID, when you squeeze the trigger, the light is “ON”; there is not the 1-2 second delay to ramp up to “useable light levels”. The lumens are there, instantly. As I cycled the light, I noticed, the light would come on instantly, and then throttle back after a couple seconds. So, for what ever reason, I associated these two distinct levels as the “high/low” , but the problem was, I had not touched the switch. Time to call the factory !

This is what the factory had to say. It was by design that the light starts up as fast as it does. The immediate start up is accomplished by overdriving the bulb by “30 or so” watts. A slow start-up was one of the stigma’s they wanted to do away with when they designed this light. (this “boost” is number two of three light levels/stages for the ballast)

Please view these two you tube videos taken in slow motion, The clips are 12 seconds long, but in real time, they are 3 seconds. The first clip is of a Polarion X1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhjCknVG5tQ. The second clip is that of the Stanley HID. What appears to be a slight drop after the initial burst is sensor lag in my video camera. Towards the end of the clip, you can see the distinct drop in output http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB0ZN5AVqao

In my discussion with the factory, we talked about the high/low switch, I noted that when I operated the switch, I could not see a difference in light levels. And the explanation… when switching from high to low, there is so much energy stored in the ballast, that it can take up to two minutes to dissipate so there wont be any noticeable drop. Time for more time lapse photography. .. Forget the camera, easier to breakout the light meter

I set the Stanley up at one end of the hallway, light meter 25-30 feet away. I waited 5 minutes for the Stanley to stabilize, and took the first measurement. Damn, something wrong with my light meter…. I could see the numbers dropping 7.05, 7.03, 7.00, 6.99 …. 6.3 BOING 7.05 7.03 7.00 ….6.3 repeat repeat repeat EACH CYCLE ABOUT 40-45 SECONDS. There is no way for the human eye to realize this drop Could it be that is some kind of pulse modulation to save energy?

Finally after two minutes, did the light dissipate the extra energy in the ballast. Down to 3.86…3.55, nearly the same percentage change as in high mode ., same slow modulation. High /Low would be the third stage/level for the ballast, but this slow modulation make it a multilevel balast

Now you know why this light ROCKS, is unique, has outside of the box thinking in it's design, and is not like any other HID that I have ever seen.

Part 3 - Exttra Credit (Stanley with a 4300k bulb) back in an hour

[Mr Ted Bear]

Part 3 Extra Credit - Stanley with 4,300K Bulb Photos courtesy BVH

Picked up their only two. Tools out and ready to go to work.

4300k bulb, hmm sounding better and better Should be more lumens going out the front than the 8000K for sure... Crush that return wire cover !!!
Waiting for the sun to go down

I can't tell what type of bulb it has from the photo, but I totally agree the bulb is easily replaceable and should be upgraded to a warmer color temp....

MAKE IT SO !

But first a quck review...
Wide angle L35 and STANLEY Lots and lots of upfront spill


and another, this time N30 and STANLEY (photo's from BVH)


Nice pics bvh... show us more Here is the N30 solo


STANLEY 8,000k


and now the STANLEY with 4300K bulb


Stanley 4,300K and Stanley 8,000k


and in gif Stanley 4,300 and Stanley 8,000


Wow, that 4300K bulb makes a big difference. Still not convinced ?
Here's the N30 and Stanley 8,000 in gif

[JWBlack]

Part 3 Extra Credit - Stanley with 4,300K Bulb Photos courtesy BVH





MAKE IT SO !

But first a quck review...
Wide angle L35 and STANLEY Lots and lots of upfront spill


and another, this time N30 and STANLEY (photo's from BVH)


Nice pics bvh... show us more Here is the N30 solo


STANLEY 8,000k


and now the STANLEY with 4300K bulb


Stanley 4,300K and Stanley 8,000k


and in gif Stanley 4,300 and Stanley 8,000


Wow, that 4300K bulb makes a big difference. Still not convinced ?
Here's the N30 and Stanley 8,000 in gif

It's just a personal taste, but based on what WE can see from your experiment I prefer the higher whiter white beam it does not appear to be quite as diffuse as 4300K, it remains tight and concentrated, but I also have to add that I have very limited experience, I have 4 flashlights that receive sparse usage AND I am afraid of taking them apart. What I am interested to know is; does the human eye pick up that 8000K OR that 4300k light better?

[SUPERFLASH]

Hi
Yiu seem to ne very knowledagable about HID lamps. Is there a site that deals with the electronics that drives the lamp/bulb. I think that if I can get a schematic diagram of the circuitry I could modify or build a ballast that would be more compact than the Stanley I have. What I would like to attempt is to use a supercapacitor as power. These things are improving every year. They don't loose power when not used and have other characteristics.Regards

[JetskiMark]

Mr Ted Bear, excellent work as always.

I made an animated gif from your first two shots comparing the L35 to the stock Stanley with the 8000K bulb.

I really don't need any more lights, (major understatement) yet I feel compelled to check my local Walmart for the Stanley.

If the flashaholics don't snap them all up, they might be marked down after sitting in the store for a few months.

I wonder if I could shoehorn in my 100W ballast and some LiPos?

[DM51]

This is continued from Part 1, which had reached >400 posts.

I have copied across Mr Ted Bear's posts and the gif rotating image from JetskiMark, as these give a useful intro to the light, but obviously there is a good deal of discussion and other useful detail remaining in Part 1.

[Mjolnir]

I just fired up my Stanley HID today, and could illuminate the bottom of the clouds with it. The cloud height was apparently about 1,000 feet, which seems well within the range of this light.

[richardcpf]

can't wait to get mine....

[Mach1]

I'm interested to know why people on this forum are concerned with color rendition and swap 8,000K bulbs for 4,300K.

How many of you use HID spotlights for photography? I see no need to swap out the 8,000K bulb in my Stanley. In fact, I find the 8,000K more useful for actually locating things in the dark.

[brightnorm]

Is the Stanley regulated; if so is it constant or slightly dimming before cut-off? Apologies if this has already been answered.

Brightnorm

[BVH]

No dimming before cut-off. Full brightness till the end.

[Mjolnir]

Aren't all HIDs essentially "regulated?" Since the bulb requires a voltage that is much higher than the battery voltage, then the ballast already has to increase the initial battery voltage. Why should it matter if the cell is 14 volts or 10? (or whatever the difference is between fully charged and nearly depleted)
Shouldn't every HID stay at its full brightness until the low voltage cutoff of the battery?

[BVH]

The vast majority are regulated. As voltage falls, Amperage increases providing the same Watts to the bulb. There may be a more technical explanation of what's happening but someone more knowledgeable than me about electronics would need to jump in here.

However, and I'm racking my brain to remember, there are some that actually dim as battery voltage falls. Maybe it's the old 10 Watt WA Solarc? Just think of a two-stage ballast. When you're making the switch from low to high, you're changing something in the ballast. Not sure what it is but the end result is that it is being dimmed.

[Benson]

The vast majority are regulated. As voltage falls, Amperage increases providing the same Watts to the bulb. There may be a more technical explanation of what's happening but someone more knowledgeable than me about electronics would need to jump in here.

They're all "regulated" in a sense (more properly, ballasted), because a discharge tube is a negative resistance device, that is, as voltage drops the current increases. This doesn't result in balancing for constant power, but runs away, so some drive circuit is needed to stabilize the desired operating point by controlling the current.

However, and I'm racking my brain to remember, there are some that actually dim as battery voltage falls. Maybe it's the old 10 Watt WA Solarc? Just think of a two-stage ballast. When you're making the switch from low to high, you're changing something in the ballast. Not sure what it is but the end result is that it is being dimmed.

Yep, the old Solarcs are the only unregulated ones I'm aware of; they apparently control the arc current proportional to the input voltage (or something like that), so the brightness falls off as the battery drains. This also permits overdriving them somewhat for more brightness off fresh batteries, as in the typical setup with 3x3.7V driving a 10.4V ballast. I don't know if anyone's done it, but you could probably also use it to rig a low mode with a two-level buck convertor; I know they'll light up from a 9V battery, which is probably down around 7.5V under load...

[Patriot]

You're correct in theory that they are, but how flat the regulation actually is depends on the ballast and how tightly regulated it is. My WE Boxer, Microfire Warrior, Jil EZnite and Mac's 10W all have noticeable drop off. The Solarcs and Boxer have the most drop, at up to 35 percent between turn of and shut down, according to the light meter. The 35W SLA automotive lights and better 24/25 watt lights seem to run much flatter. The EA lights for example seem to drop very little before shutting down. All the ones I've checked with the meter drop a slight amount including the Polarion. If I ever get around to posting graphs, it would be revealed clearly there.



EDIT: I see that Bob covered it already while I was still typing. There must be something going on with the solarcs which causes them by design to drop more than the others. Mac or Dan probably know exactly what's going on there but it's technically beyond my knowledge.

[BVH]

Some HID's don't have low voltage cut off. Not a rule but you can usually see some flickering going on during the last 2-5 seconds of run time. The Oracle 24 I believe does not have the cutoff as it high-speed flickers for about 5-6 seconds before going out.

[Spotlightshep]

How do you replace the bulb with a new one?

[Mjolnir]

There are some directions in the original thread about bulb replacement and shimming.

[LOUSYGREATWALLGM]

Hi guys, can any of you who owns this Stanley HID spotlight 35W tell me the exact current rating of the A/C charger? I lost my A/C charger

Thanks!

[BVH]

Label says:

12 Volts DC, 500 ma
Center of pin is +

[LOUSYGREATWALLGM]

Label says:

12 Volts DC, 500 ma
Center of pin is +

Thanks!!

[Hangfire79]

Hey Dopple, I'm about 40 miles east of Murfreesboro. I have the very same and exact issue you are having, no hi/lo switch and flashes red quickly. It worked 1 time and after charging, nothing, just a fast red flashing light. BVH, no joy on the bottom plug, nothing via either power source. I don't have the knowhow to resolve it myself.

[FRITZHID]

not try'n to revive a dead (and VERY long thread) but i was wondering if anyone has found a better replacement parabolic for the stanley, the stock has that ugly, spill puking flat spot on it and i've been looking for some time now (some of you may remember me from before the CPF crash) and have had no luck, i took a look at the HID's lil halogen brother a while back but it looked to me that the focal point in that reflector was a tad on the shallow side for the HID. any suggestions fellow CPF'rs?

[nwuboy]

does anyone know if there are red LED's available for this spotlight? I will be using it for animal spotting and don't want to spook them with white light. I'd rather not use a red filter if possible because of how much the light gets cut down. Do they even make filters for this light?

thanks!

[FRITZHID]

does anyone know if there are red LED's available for this spotlight? I will be using it for animal spotting and don't want to spook them with white light. I'd rather not use a red filter if possible because of how much the light gets cut down. Do they even make filters for this light?

thanks!

well, the LED's inside can just be de-soldered and replaced with standard high-power red LEDs, as far as filters, there are no standard filters made for the HID light. however a simple red gel with mounting will work for quite some time as long as you keep it far enough from the lens (as in keep it about as far away as the rubber guard will allow, and you may want to double up on it to provide a deeper red)

[???]

does anyone know a source for the batterys?


everything i find that fits is way less then 3ams. i know it would be nice to upgrade, but right now i'd be happy just finding a stock replacement battery.