Stanley H.I.D. and 1365 lumen spotlights (Part 2)

[Arnulf]

are you sure you didnt leave the led on? the led shuts off when the main light is on. Actually at end of the battery life the led doesnt even light up so its hard to know if you left it on or off. The battery shouldnt die overnight if you just got 20 minutes run time out of it. Also that 20 minute run time will increase to probably 25 minutes when you get 10 cycles or so on the battery. My first runtime was 21 minutes, and the green led would never light. With some cycles the green led stayed on for about 5 minutes and i picked up about 4-5 minutes run time total.

No I did not leave the LEDs on top on.
When I charge it and the LED is green....then the next morning it is red again...the battery is not dead....it has just lost some of its charge.

[liteitup]

No I did not leave the LEDs on top on.
When I charge it and the LED is green....then the next morning it is red again...the battery is not dead....it has just lost some of its charge.

i see well try and put some cycles on it and see if it improves. When i first got my stanley it took 10 or so cycles of the battery for the green light to stay on for 4-5 minutes.

22-25 minutes is about the normal runtime of the stanley with the hi-lo power. If your getting 20 minutes now it may improve with cycles. I also started to leave my charger plugged in 6-7hours after the light turns green and that seems to improve the runtime also.

[Arnulf]

i see well try and put some cycles on it and see if it improves. When i first got my stanley it took 10 or so cycles of the battery for the green light to stay on for 4-5 minutes.

22-25 minutes is about the normal runtime of the stanley with the hi-lo power. If your getting 20 minutes now it may improve with cycles. I also started to leave my charger plugged in 6-7hours after the light turns green and that seems to improve the runtime also.

Yep...lets hope it gets better with use.

I cannot tell the difference between hi and lo...so I am gonna run it on low....when it first starts up it really draws on the battery.

What is that eeeeeee sound they make?

[WaveMechanic]

considering my last PM, this is a wonderful idea as it meets the needs of someone who would just like to be able to change a battery as you do with all lights at some point.
My compliments on an excellent idea and, liability is an issue.

Thanks for bailing us all out.

Arnulf, my friend, you can disregard the chatter about how to fix things up for you and other suggestions,this is your best solution.
11:26 PM

Northern Lights, replacing the HID's SLA with LiMnNi cells is a great idea. I hope what follows stimulates further discussion of this approach.

Liteitup is spot-on when he says this is not plug-and-play. He links to a BatterySpace 4P pack and suggests asking for them to make it 4S, but I think BS would say that wiring LiMnNi cells in series without a PCB is "playing with fire" and recommend their 4S pack with pre-wired PCB, at: http://www.batteryspace.com/limnni26...tewithpcb.aspx

With a 4S pack, using the car cord as-is would be problematic: current could flow from a fresh HID battery back into the car's battery and alternator. A forward-biased diode (10A or better) in series with the cord would ensure that current only flows the right way, from car to HID. BTW, the 3S approach would definitely be out: 14+ volts from the car could exceed the pack's maximum voltage (think smoke, flames).

Of course the OEM AC charger won't work with the new battery. BS's charger at http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcha...tterypack.aspx or equivalent would be needed. But I'd venture that you could reuse the plug from the Stanley charger.

It would certainly be interesting to see what run time this provides: Northern Lights, if you have any real-world testing results please share!And, importantly, the HID would be 25% lighter (over a pound) after replacing the lead battery. On a long hike, that alone might be worth spending 2x the original cost to do the upgrade...

...but, and please excuse me, a newbie here, if in the interest of safety I ask everyone be careful about using these high-energy batteries, and add, "Just remember - only you can prevent Lithium fires!"

[Apollo Cree]

Yep...lets hope it gets better with use.

I cannot tell the difference between hi and lo...so I am gonna run it on low....when it first starts up it really draws on the battery.

What is that eeeeeee sound they make?

I wonder if the high/low switch affects the initial current draw? I wouldn't be surprised if the starting current is the same either way until the circuitry gets the bulb started and settles down.

The battery provides low voltage DC. 6V? 12V? or something like that.

A HID bulb requires a much higher voltage. There is circuitry that changes the DC to AC and then runs the AC through a transformer to get the high voltage the HID bulb requires.

The transformer or other parts of the AC circuitry tend to vibrate and produce noise. The AC frequency is higher than household AC and makes the high pitched noise.

(Note: it might not be an actual transformer, but the concept is the same.)

[KarstGhost]

I apologize if this has already been covered...there is a lot to read through about this particular light.

Has anybody confirmed the OTF lumens for the Stanley HID?

[Arnulf]

I wonder if the high/low switch affects the initial current draw? I wouldn't be surprised if the starting current is the same either way until the circuitry gets the bulb started and settles down.

The battery provides low voltage DC. 6V? 12V? or something like that.

A HID bulb requires a much higher voltage. There is circuitry that changes the DC to AC and then runs the AC through a transformer to get the high voltage the HID bulb requires.

The transformer or other parts of the AC circuitry tend to vibrate and produce noise. The AC frequency is higher than household AC and makes the high pitched noise.

(Note: it might not be an actual transformer, but the concept is the same.)

Cool....thanks for explaining it to me.

[Northern Lights]

Northern Lights, replacing the HID's SLA with LiMnNi cells is a great idea. I hope what follows stimulates further discussion of this approach.

Liteitup is spot-on when he says this is not plug-and-play. He links to a BatterySpace 4P pack and suggests asking for them to make it 4S, but I think BS would say that wiring LiMnNi cells in series without a PCB is "playing with fire" and recommend their 4S pack with pre-wired PCB, at: http://www.batteryspace.com/limnni26...tewithpcb.aspx

With a 4S pack, using the car cord as-is would be problematic: current could flow from a fresh HID battery back into the car's battery and alternator. A forward-biased diode (10A or better) in series with the cord would ensure that current only flows the right way, from car to HID. BTW, the 3S approach would definitely be out: 14+ volts from the car could exceed the pack's maximum voltage (think smoke, flames).

Of course the OEM AC charger won't work with the new battery. BS's charger at http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcha...tterypack.aspx or equivalent would be needed. But I'd venture that you could reuse the plug from the Stanley charger.

It would certainly be interesting to see what run time this provides: Northern Lights, if you have any real-world testing results please share!And, importantly, the HID would be 25% lighter (over a pound) after replacing the lead battery. On a long hike, that alone might be worth spending 2x the original cost to do the upgrade...

...but, and please excuse me, a newbie here, if in the interest of safety I ask everyone be careful about using these high-energy batteries, and add, "Just remember - only you can prevent Lithium fires!"

There are 4 lithium chemistries, the Lipo is the most flamable. The lithium, nickel, cobalt which these are is one of the least.

It will not flare or flame and can be charged in series without pcb.

And strange as it seems, it charges on a Lipo system-lol

[Benson]

There are 4 lithium chemistries, the Lipo is the most flamable. The lithium, nickel, cobalt which these are is one of the least.

It will not flare or flame and can be charged in series without pcb.

And strange as it seems, it charges on a Lipo system-lol

Li-poly is not a separate chemistry -- it's the same LiCo reaction as "normal" Li-ion cells. AIUI, the main reason it's more dangerous is that the bag construction makes it much more prone to mechanical damage than cylindrical cells....

[Northern Lights]

...but, and please excuse me, a newbie here, if in the interest of safety I ask everyone be careful about using these high-energy batteries, and add, "Just remember - only you can prevent Lithium fires!"

Trying to get caught up here. If you Google cpf, look for the Milwaukee tool pack battery, Emolie, mods, same battery, I have used it for hot wires and LED. It has a higher voltage than other lithiums and it can handle incredible loads, this cell can take bursts to 40 amps, most shut down at a couple amps. They also can be charged at incredible rates, they charge on Lipo chargers. At 3.7 volts they are perfect for P7 D bins with a 3.75 Vf and since they do not sag under load the output graphs look like a regulated light when they are direct drive. They held up well on 5 amp 5761 mods too. But the 5761 often has a bulb voltage limit of 7.2 volts and on the emolies I often got 7.6 so had to not only use a soft start but had to regulate the constant voltage.

Lux Luthor, Jim Jones, Missionaryman and myself are a few that played with these when they first came out. You should dig for those posts. A123 and Emolie type cells are very safe. The only consumer problems is that they are high amps, you short them and you will deliver a lot of power which can heat things up but these do not reach runaway temperatures and do not flare.

Happy hunting. The work has been done, it is deep in the archives.

[StuGatz]

This post is only FWIW and as a few of you that I have already met know, I am no techie but a simple user of this kind of equipment...

After my recent purchase of the HID & 1365 and the full charge of both, I have been able to run a consecutive comparison test of the HID, 1365, and an approximate 5 year old Vectorlight 1.5 million candlepower pistol grip spotlight similar in appearance to the Stanley lights but with a metalic body.

All three tights were charged to full capacity and activated with the lock on device within 5 seconds of each other.

The Stanely HID ceased function after 13 minutes. It would turn on again but for only approximately 5 seconds and is now back on the charger.

The Stanley 1365 has decreased to a visual estimation of 20% to 30% of it's original thrown light as of approximately 20 minutes after activation.

The approximate 5 year old Vector (with original bulb and battery) is at approximately 60% to 70% of the original light output from activation time.

Wow... just wow...

[StuGatz]

30 minutes after activation the Stanley 1365 was at less than 5% original light output so I turned it off to recharge the light.

34 minutes after activation the Vector is down to approximately 10% to 15% of original output... I am more than a little impressed.

[Northern Lights]

30 minutes after activation the Stanley 1365 was at less than 5% original light output so I turned it off to recharge the light.

34 minutes after activation the Vector is down to approximately 10% to 15% of original output... I am more than a little impressed.

I love my vector, although only an H7 bulb now with the IMR26650 and 14.8V it has gone from 1500 bulb lumens to 2650+, an increase of 176%. and an hour run time.

The spot light btw, being incadescent has a better color than the HID, the slightly warmer color gives better contrast so things look sharper and clearer even that gives an impression of more light because you see more detail.

Really, what this thread has turned to is not so much what light or which one is best. This discussion is all about batteries and power.

[StuGatz]

Really, what this thread has turned to is not so much what light or which one is best. This discussion is all about batteries and power.

My point being that both of the Stanley lights appear to have mediocre batteries and/or power...

I will run another test after the recharges but if there is no improvement in run time they will both go back to the store.

[Northern Lights]

My point being that both of the Stanley lights appear to have mediocre batteries and/or power...

I will run another test after the recharges but if there is no improvement in run time they will both go back to the store.

I agree, looks like they are "fixer uppers" from the very start. Not what you really want in value for your money.

[liteitup]

Northern Lights, replacing the HID's SLA with LiMnNi cells is a great idea. I hope what follows stimulates further discussion of this approach.

Liteitup is spot-on when he says this is not plug-and-play. He links to a BatterySpace 4P pack and suggests asking for them to make it 4S, but I think BS would say that wiring LiMnNi cells in series without a PCB is "playing with fire" and recommend their 4S pack with pre-wired PCB, at: http://www.batteryspace.com/limnni26...tewithpcb.aspx

With a 4S pack, using the car cord as-is would be problematic: current could flow from a fresh HID battery back into the car's battery and alternator. A forward-biased diode (10A or better) in series with the cord would ensure that current only flows the right way, from car to HID. BTW, the 3S approach would definitely be out: 14+ volts from the car could exceed the pack's maximum voltage (think smoke, flames).

Of course the OEM AC charger won't work with the new battery. BS's charger at http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcha...tterypack.aspx or equivalent would be needed. But I'd venture that you could reuse the plug from the Stanley charger.

It would certainly be interesting to see what run time this provides: Northern Lights, if you have any real-world testing results please share!And, importantly, the HID would be 25% lighter (over a pound) after replacing the lead battery. On a long hike, that alone might be worth spending 2x the original cost to do the upgrade...

...but, and please excuse me, a newbie here, if in the interest of safety I ask everyone be careful about using these high-energy batteries, and add, "Just remember - only you can prevent Lithium fires!"

the stanley already has a protection circuit (mosfet) built in to keep the battery from draining through the cord. What i worry about is isolating the lithium battery from the unmetered 12v power source. I dont know what effect this would have on the lithium battery.

You could most definately reuse the stock barrel plug for the charger (i used this on a another custom HID light to charge a LIPO, along with an installed balance connector), just need to direct wire it to the battery pack and bypass the electrics for the SLA.

[Northern Lights]

the stanley already has a protection circuit (mosfet) built in to keep the battery from draining through the cord. What i worry about is isolating the lithium battery from the unmetered 12v power source. I dont know what effect this would have on the lithium battery.

You could most definately reuse the stock barrel plug for the charger (i used this on a another custom HID light to charge a LIPO, along with an installed balance connector), just need to direct wire it to the battery pack and bypass the electrics for the SLA.

I under stand. I would not connect the 14.8 v pack to the power cord, which sounds like it is a simple parallel connection for the 12V sla. You would be drawing down the Li pack the entire time it is hooked up. It is possible to overdraw these batteries. It is very difficult to damage them, however. From battery space you can get a single purpose small Li charger and that could be used on the 12V line. Or from DX you can get a copy of the BC6 charger a lot cheaper, however the tolerances to the charging criteria has a lot more variance I see from reading the spec sheet. It would likely be ok though. All these chargers are the same for LiPo and the LiPo precautions will scare you but most do not apply to these newer cells which are usually not even mentioned in these charger specs.
The Li pack could be hooked directly to hobby charger that does Lipo as the charge cycle is the same. These cells can charge at a 6.5 amp rate.
A good hobby charger seems like an expense but if you figure out how many other chargers it will replace it actually is a savings. BC6 for instance does 6 battery chemistries, in the case of Li it does three sub- programs so it actually does 8. They will also do conditioning, series, balance, storage prgrams and charge rates, manual or auto, capacities and voltage are all addressable. I got mine for $169 but is replaced the day I got it 8 other chargers.
You should dump the internal board if changing to Li. Remove it if possible, I am not familiar with the set up it could be physically impossible to do that but it should be isolated out of circuit at the least.
You can get from Batteryspace single purpose chargers too and at the least you would need this for the new system. I have a magcharger set up quite like that on a single use charger that has a 12v. input. That would be the way you use it in a vehicle.
Here are two BS links to lithium/polymer chargers, remember for these cells no balance is necessary and can be a straight series charge:
http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcha...tterypack.aspx
and
http://www.batteryspace.com/smartcha...lecarplug.aspx
This next idea may sound overly complicated but it shows you to what extend you can take this. I have several chargers along with the BC6 that I use and necessariy need 110 V AC input, they have no 12V DC input. From Harbor Freight, best price on these with their sales or Goggle searched coupons, I have gotton small cigarette plug 100 watt and larger AC/DC inverters. These have cut outs and work just fine. My Tundra has at least four interior 12V outlets OEM that can take the loads, they are marked right on them.
It is not difficult to match the inverters to the needs, just read the spec on the input power, it given in amps then watts is amps X volts for the number.
My phone charger that came with the gizmo was AC only and the DC charger cord cost more than a Harbor Freit 100 watt inverter, $9 on a weekly sale. It powers the AC charger just fine.
I told you it was complex, but if you understand it you can see how you can save some money and be hooked up for any demand, and if you dont get that deep into electronics, you can ignore it. It has no affect on the Stanley conversion.
It is 2 A.M., couldn't sleep. I can now, going back to bed!

[Arnulf]

What do you techs/modifiers think about a power supply that would hang on your belt and connect to the Stanley via the cigarette lighter wire?

[Arnulf]

I just done another run-time test.....got 25 minutes on the low setting.

[Northern Lights]

What do you techs/modifiers think about a power supply that would hang on your belt and connect to the Stanley via the cigarette lighter wire?

Cumbersom. The best solution would be to use another sla of 2 Ah or more in the pack for economy and compatability. The old battery could be used with a 12V pack/

For weight the safe lithium is the lightest with that much (4 Ah, 14.8 V batt) power.

I you use anything other than a 12V pack however, the self contained battery would need to be by passed.

A ten cell NiMh pack of cells from Battery Junction would be my first choice. It charges on a NiMn charger, is 12.0 volts, up to 12 AH, charges at fast A rate, is not too heavy, cost about $40-$70. sub C to Ds available. The sub C is best by weight and is 5 Ah, charges at 3 amps and can take the Load. C look pretty good too, Ds are phenominal and I believe they can handle the HID bulb, but you should give Jeff a call and ask on that one for the D.

[Arnulf]

Cumbersom. The best solution would be to use another sla of 2 Ah or more in the pack for economy and compatability. The old battery could be used with a 12V pack/

For weight the safe lithium is the lightest with that much (4 Ah, 14.8 V batt) power.

I you use anything other than a 12V pack however, the self contained battery would need to be by passed.

A ten cell NiMh pack of cells from Battery Junction would be my first choice. It charges on a NiMn charger, is 12.0 volts, up to 12 AH, charges at fast A rate, is not too heavy, cost about $40-$70. sub C to Ds available. The sub C is best by weight and is 5 Ah, charges at 3 amps and can take the Load. C look pretty good too, Ds are phenominal and I believe they can handle the HID bulb, but you should give Jeff a call and ask on that one for the D.

Thanks for the reply NL.....your a goldmine of info.

[StuGatz]

The second "test" has about the same result. The HID just gave up the ghost at 15 minutes.

The 1365 is at less than 50%

I had recharged both lights and they sat for about a day and a half before I ran the timed test.

Perhaps I expect too much from these lights???

[liteitup]

Cumbersom. The best solution would be to use another sla of 2 Ah or more in the pack for economy and compatability. The old battery could be used with a 12V pack/

For weight the safe lithium is the lightest with that much (4 Ah, 14.8 V batt) power.

I you use anything other than a 12V pack however, the self contained battery would need to be by passed.

A ten cell NiMh pack of cells from Battery Junction would be my first choice. It charges on a NiMn charger, is 12.0 volts, up to 12 AH, charges at fast A rate, is not too heavy, cost about $40-$70. sub C to Ds available. The sub C is best by weight and is 5 Ah, charges at 3 amps and can take the Load. C look pretty good too, Ds are phenominal and I believe they can handle the HID bulb, but you should give Jeff a call and ask on that one for the D.

actually since the stanley is designed to be used in a car it is designed to be run up to 14-15 volts in the 12volt socket, since when cars running produce near 15 volts.

In my own testing i have hooked up fully charged 14.8 lipo pack (over 16 volts fully charged). I ran the light for about 10 minutes while the internal battery charged and ran off of the lipo pack. I measured a max 5 amp spike going into the stanley off the lipo while the stanley was running and then settled down to around 3 amps while running. I didnt test the amp draw while it was not running. Anything under 16 volts should be able to be handled i would think. next time i have my stanley apart im going to measure whats going on at the battery with a 14.8 lipo hooked up to the cord.

[BVH]

IIRC, I powered mine up to 15.5 Volts off a variable power supply so the Voltage was steady at 15.5, no sag. I chose not to go any further.

[Northern Lights]

actually since the stanley is designed to be used in a car it is designed to be run up to 14-15 volts in the 12volt socket, since when cars running produce near 15 volts.

In my own testing i have hooked up fully charged 14.8 lipo pack (over 16 volts fully charged). I ran the light for about 10 minutes while the internal battery charged and ran off of the lipo pack. I measured a max 5 amp spike going into the stanley off the lipo while the stanley was running and then settled down to around 3 amps while running. I didnt test the amp draw while it was not running. Anything under 16 volts should be able to be handled i would think. next time i have my stanley apart im going to measure whats going on at the battery with a 14.8 lipo hooked up to the cord.

It is not that it wont run, it will keep running current. When the pack is installed it is in parallel to the sla even when the light is off the two batteries are in circuit to each other.
The sla is 12v, so when not running, left hooked up the sla will drain the 14.8 V pack that is hooked to it. You cannot have two voltages in a closed circuit, they will equalize. Think of current like water, it will run to the lowest point. The sla can take the 15V surge or constant current but it will continue to drain. Think of it hooked up in a closed parrallel circuit like a 12V wet cell on a car, which has 6 ea 2V cells on the batt. when one goes bad, low voltage, it drains the others down to a stasis.

[ledepede]

Was there anyone who has succeeded in getting the EU??

[mackle]

Brand new to this forum. My apologies if i have posted in the wrong thread. I am not an expert, but am seeking some assistance. Purchased the Stanley HID-0109 with 2 step intensity switch about 6 months ago from Wal-Mart for my girlfriend who is a petsitter. Seemed like a perfect gift, since some of her clients are "ranches".

She had some duration problems early on (as cited my some members of this forum). Left it plugged in to charge for weeks. Now when the DC charger is plugged in, the green status light immediately comes on. the red or orange never appears. When unplugged form the charger, the LEDs work, but the HID never comes on (at either intensity). When plugged into the 12V adapter for the car, apparently bypassing the battery, the HID works.

Could she have damaged the circuit protection or battery? Is the battery faulty? Should I call the "800" number in the user's manual? Is there something I can try before making that call?

Any help from you experts out there would be greatly appreciated.

[liteitup]

It is not that it wont run, it will keep running current. When the pack is installed it is in parallel to the sla even when the light is off the two batteries are in circuit to each other.
The sla is 12v, so when not running, left hooked up the sla will drain the 14.8 V pack that is hooked to it. You cannot have two voltages in a closed circuit, they will equalize. Think of current like water, it will run to the lowest point. The sla can take the 15V surge or constant current but it will continue to drain. Think of it hooked up in a closed parrallel circuit like a 12V wet cell on a car, which has 6 ea 2V cells on the batt. when one goes bad, low voltage, it drains the others down to a stasis.

im fully aware the batteries are connected in parallel. Im not suggesting leaving it connected permanently when the light is off. Its no different then hooking it up to your car when the engine is running and making 14-15 volts. There is internal charging circuitry in the light that limits the current. Its is not as though you are directly connecting each battery together.

[Northern Lights]

im fully aware the batteries are connected in parallel. Im not suggesting leaving it connected permanently when the light is off. Its no different then hooking it up to your car when the engine is running and making 14-15 volts. There is internal charging circuitry in the light that limits the current. Its is not as though you are directly connecting each battery together.

There is one big difference that is not been addressed. The 14.8 pack is lithium nickel cobalt, althoug a safe lithium, you have a narrow parameter of safe limits to avoid damage to the batteries. I would not trust the circuitry which designed for sla to work within the limits required by the Lithum pack.

[liteitup]

There is one big difference that is not been addressed. The 14.8 pack is lithium nickel cobalt, althoug a safe lithium, you have a narrow parameter of safe limits to avoid damage to the batteries. I would not trust the circuitry which designed for sla to work within the limits required by the Lithum pack.

so your talking about drawing battery down below the safe voltage... i agree with you that it would be easy to do this if you werent paying attention and the circuitry in the light would do nothing to protect it... I was merely saying that it seems possible to run the light off of spare batteries if you had them... a fully charged 4000mah lipo would be able to supply power to the stanley for atleast an hour safely. Smart use would be the key here...

I am also going to do further testing when i get motivated to see what happens at the sla when you plug a fully charged 14.8 lipo into the aux port to see how much current and voltage are going into the battery because a fully charged lipo would be running 16 volts.. I want to compare a 14.4 car running voltage to the lipo and see the differences. I would say i wouldnt make a habit of this until further testing is done. Like i said i tried it on mine and ran it for 10 minutes with no ill effects but i could have just been lucky, i havnt done it any longer then that.

If i were to build a spare battery solely for this operation i would make with a protection circuit built in for no worries and maybe run it through a rectifier to drop the voltage going into the light.