Which Dragon ?

old4570

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Diamond DRAGON 2A max. current - LUW W5AP

Typical Luminous Flux: 285 lm
Color coordinates: x = 0.31, y = 0.32 CIE 1931 (weiß)
Color temperature (typ.): 6500 K
Viewing angle at 50 % IV: 140°
Technology: ThinGaN
Typ. efficacy: 58 lm/W


OR/

Golden DRAGON Plus - LUW W5AM

typical Luminous Flux: 105 lm at 350 mA
Color coordinates: x = 0.31, y = 0.32 CIE 1931 (weiß)
Color temperature (typ.): 6500 K
Viewing angle at 50 % IV: 170°
Technology: ThinGaN
Typ. efficacy: 93 lm/W

??? Which one .... Kind of leaning toward a Golden Dragon + and a buck - boost driver .
 

old4570

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Nope , cant push the Golden Dragon Plus to 2A .
But with a Buck Boost driver @ 1A , we should see 300Lumen at the LED .[ ? ]
I've seen claims of up to 1.4A

But with heat + sag + this'n that . it would be nice to see 250+Lumen out the front .

But then , the Diamond Dragon ? Anyone know the output per 350mA ?

I would have thought the Diamond Dragon would beat out the Golden Dragon on output at 350mA , but I haven't been able to find any such info , ? might have to go back to osram web site and look some more .
 

old4570

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I ran / tested 3 Diamond Dragons ,

2 did about 160 - 190 Lumen ... :shakehead
1 did 297Lumen :eek: with about 1.44A to the LED [ all 3 ]

+ There awfully fragile + They pump a fair bit of heat .

Id like to try a Golden Dragon with a buck boost driver @ 1A to the LED ..

I just dont know what to think of DD's

SSC P7 seems to be the go , but not much throw if your into that , but they sure do pump light out of a P60 drop in , my D-bin is 450 - 500+ Lumen , depending on what battery you use .. [ 1.8A to LED = 500+ Lumen ]
 
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bigchelis

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I ran / tested 3 Diamond Dragons ,

2 did about 160 - 190 Lumen ... :shakehead
1 did 297Lumen :eek: with about 1.44A to the LED [ all 3 ]

+ There awfully fragile + They pump a fair bit of heat .

Id like to try a Golden Dragon with a buck boost driver @ 1A to the LED ..

I just dont know what to think of DD's

SSC P7 seems to be the go , but not much throw if your into that , but they sure do pump light out of a P60 drop in , my D-bin is 450 - 500+ Lumen , depending on what battery you use .. [ 1.8A to LED = 500+ Lumen ]


The diamond Dragon in real life doesn't do that much lumens. Here are real world lumens as Tested by MrGman.


The Diamond Dragon 4C Maglight was made by Nailbender and I used 4 "C" NiMH cells. The current at the tail was 2.6A:poke:
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________317.8__,__0 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________295.5__,__2 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________242.6__,_30 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________229.0__,_60 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________223.6__,_90 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________223.2,__120 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________223.7,__150 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________225.4,__180 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________226.0,__240 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________227.5,__300 sec_______,

The Diamond Dragon in a Mag hosts had a beam similar to a P7. I tried a LOP and smooth reflector, but it just wouldn't throw. The Dereelight P60 R2 orange peel out threw it. It does have a pretty beam, but it is very ineffective at the current I was using it. At the same current my P7 Mag makes twice as much lumens with less drop in lumens.
 
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bigchelis

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FYI: MrGman also tested a Diamond Dragon P60 drop-in I had w/ a 1.4A driver. The hosts was a Surefire 6P bored and UCL lens. I used 2 IMR 18650's at 4.1v each.


It was barely at 140 Lumens out the front. Again, the beam quality is 2nd to none; yet we have to be realistic.

Also,
The Osram 6 die lights = under 700 lumens. MrGman tested a Mac Custom Mag 6 Die that was close to 600 lumens and another custom that was also 600ish lumens.

In your calculations you never account for heat build up, which only when tested in a sphere the ineffectiveness becomes apparent.
 

old4570

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FYI: MrGman also tested a Diamond Dragon P60 drop-in I had w/ a 1.4A driver. The hosts was a Surefire 6P bored and UCL lens. I used 2 IMR 18650's at 4.1v each.


It was barely at 140 Lumens out the front. Again, the beam quality is 2nd to none; yet we have to be realistic.

Also,
The Osram 6 die lights = under 700 lumens. MrGman tested a Mac Custom Mag 6 Die that was close to 600 lumens and another custom that was also 600ish lumens.

In your calculations you never account for heat build up, which only when tested in a sphere the ineffectiveness becomes apparent.

I tested them from cold start , Had the flashlight in the light box at start up .

2 DD started at 10000 Lux and slowly drooped to just over 8000 lux and held there ...

the 3rd one did 15700Lux and very slowly drooped to 15400 and held around there for the minute or so I ran it .

My main concern was the initial cold output ...
Only one out of three came within claimed output . And what a margin .
But yes , only ran them till output was stable , 60 seconds or so , maybe up to 120 seconds .

Current claims is 305Lumen @ 1.4A
My forward current was 1.44A on all 3 DD's
And the good one did around claimed output only sagging a little , and then becoming stable .

Yes I liked the beam , yes I liked the good one , I didnt like the 66% no performance ratio . So if you buy 10 DDs , how many will do claimed output , and how many will do 50% of claimed output ?
+ There small + Lens is fragile . + Cree R2 is just as good , strong , easy to use , Cost ? . Anyways , Im just about done with single die LEDs ..

Im doing SSC P7 P60 drop ins now . No problem getting 450Lumen +

Just waiting to try a new driver + try and build my own sandwich board .
 
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bigchelis

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I tested them from cold start , Had the flashlight in the light box at start up .

2 DD started at 10000 Lux and slowly drooped to just over 8000 lux and held there ...

the 3rd one did 15700Lux and very slowly drooped to 15400 and held around there for the minute or so I ran it .

My main concern was the initial cold output ...
Only one out of three came within claimed output . And what a margin .
But yes , only ran them till output was stable , 60 seconds or so , maybe up to 120 seconds .

Current claims is 305Lumen @ 1.4A
My forward current was 1.44A on all 3 DD's
And the good one did around claimed output only sagging a little , and then becoming stable .

Yes I liked the beam , yes I liked the good one , I didnt like the 66% no performance ratio . So if you buy 10 DDs , how many will do claimed output , and how many will do 50% of claimed output ?
+ There small + Lens is fragile . + Cree R2 is just as good , strong , easy to use , Cost ? . Anyways , Im just about done with single die LEDs ..

Im doing SSC P7 P60 drop ins now . No problem getting 450Lumen +

Just waiting to try a new driver + try and build my own sandwich board .


Well, I can tell you for sure your P60 P7 is not making 450 lumens.
 

bigchelis

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Sir,

Please look at this link. Post #1 and #3 will give you real out the front lumens readings for you to understand what you really get out the front.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229135

You keep refering to what lux you got therefore the lumens should be based on the paper spec, but I am offering to you actual lumens taken by MrGmans calibrated sphere.

Also,
I witness a Malkoff P60 P7 drop-in and other cool lights tested at our local CPF meet here in California. The Malkff P7 P60 with the super duper heatsinking that Gene uses made 380ish out the front with a single IMR 18650. That is it. So unless, you discovered a way to cool this modules better than Gene Malkoff Please tell. Also, the Nailbender P60 P7 without the Cooper heatsink that Gene uses did 356 out the front with the same set-up.


Brand/Model________Host/Model/Bezel______Mode_________Lumens__On Time
Triple P7___________UCL in Mag Host??____????__________1235.2__1 sec
Triple P7___________UCL in Mag Host??____????__________1199.7__3 sec
Welsh Allen-1185____Maglight__________3 AW C LI ION___1042___1 sec
MC-E 2S2P_________MiniMag no bezel______2X14500 LI______954.1__0 sec
Lambda Revo P7_____3C body______________3 NiMH_________757.4__1 sec
MC-E 2S2P_________MiniMag no bezel______2X14500 LI______714.5__1 sec
MC-E 2S2P_________MiniMag_____________2X14500 LI______639.1__1 sec
Osram O-Star_______Arcmania Super_F-V,___4 AW RCR123,___639.1__1 sec
Weedle 3 Q5________Mag head 2 C cell body__2 C Lith Ion,_____574.0__1 sec
MR-X Lux 5,________Mag body_____________6 AA NiMH______565.1__1 sec
Wolfeyes Storm Q5___Triple Q5,____________3X18650________565.1__1 sec
Malkoff P7,_________FiveMega 1 C Cell,_____1 C Lith Ion,_____417.2__1 sec
Weedle 3 Q5________Mag head 1 C cell body__1 C Lith Ion,_____399.4__1 sec
SureFire P91,_______Leupold MX121,_______2 IMR 16340_____384.6__1 sec
Malkoff P7,_________L2 size host___________1X18650________383.1__1 sec
L.F. IMR 9,_________Surefire 6P____________2 IMR 16340,____270.7__1 sec
Arcmania__________Mega Extreme_________1 CR123______149___1 sec
SF E2DL________________________________2XCR123_______ 145___1 sec
Quala Rebel Tower_______________________1XRCR123_____138___1 sec
Zebralight H501__________________________1 AA Alk________84___1 sec
Zebralight H501__________________________1 AA NiMH______70___1 sec
 
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bigchelis

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old4570,

I keep giving you actual lumen numbers for you to use as a guide, but instead you neglect what has already been proven. Beleive me I too wanted so bad for my P60 P7 drop-ins to be 500 plus lumens, but the truth is not way Jose.

Now,
The Diamond Dragon also doesn't make anywhere near the adverstised paper specs or inspite of the lux readings it just doesn't make that many lumens. The same thing goes for the Osram 6 die LED, which if you see the link in the previous post just doesn't deliver.

Sorry, but truth is truth. Im just the messenger. Have a great day.
 

old4570

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Really , Hmmm D-bin is 800-900Lumen @ 2.8A

So if we work it from 800 @ 2.8 / 1.4 should be about 400

1.6 to the LED should be about 450 ...

Im rather sure I didnt say out the front ....

And : Direct Quote = my D-bin is 450 - 500+ Lumen , depending on what battery you use .. [ 1.8A to LED = 500+ Lumen ]

Im not making claims for out the front , and Im not talking about sag from heat .. or battery power loss , Im trying to stick to the facts .

Im not making or saying anything about output after 5 minutes ...
And I dont run it in a Solarforce Body , this pill is in a Ultrafire 502B .
My 501B has the highest output , and the least Lens/body loss of all my bodies ...

So yes PAPER claims , but minimum at that , so should be realistic for when you turn it on , as for the rest , I didnt go there .

Im trying to keep it as real as I can .

If a D-bin is lower rated , then PLZ let me know .

As for heat - I just ordered MM with temp probe , how good they are ???
And on Hi - its only 57% or something of the LED's output / how that affects heat related sag ? I haven't gone there yet ! I just haven't had the time .
Plan was to drill one body so I could check the temp of the pill and see ...

If the manufacturers are lying about the ratings ? ? ? or the products dont measure up ? ? ? . Im in no position to say .

All I can do is , go by the information I have , and even then work from minimum , so if there is an error it should be on the plus side .
As for sag , battery / heat - Haven't gone there yet .
 
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bigchelis

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Okay, then you are 100% correct.

I purchased this MC-E P60 drop-in on direct drive from Gene Malkoff. He said the Lumens would be at least over 1000 out the front because of the lower forward voltage of the MC-E.

Behold my 1000 Lumen Surefire E1e w/6P bezel and IMR 16340. I get 4.5A at the tail so it is over 1000 Lumens.:twothumbs
PC190175.jpg
 

old4570

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Okay, then you are 100% correct.

I purchased this MC-E P60 drop-in on direct drive from Gene Malkoff. He said the Lumens would be at least over 1000 out the front because of the lower forward voltage of the MC-E.

Behold my 1000 Lumen Surefire E1e w/6P bezel and IMR 16340. I get 4.5A at the tail so it is over 1000 Lumens.:twothumbs
PC190175.jpg
Right !!!! :poke:

Proof ? I have no Proof .. + Im not ignoring anything ..
Just telling you I haven't done it ..
If my D-bin is incorrectly rated , and it cant do 450Lumen @ 1.6A ?
I dont have a light sphere , so I can only do the math . Is the math wrong ?

If your saying Im not taking Heat Sag / Battery Sag into account your 100% right .. It takes me 10 - 15 seconds to get a good reading and thats it .

Im currently not interested in 5 minute runs as thats not what I'm interested in , I dont run my MC-E or my SSC P7's that long , at best 60 seconds , the rest of the time is spent on Lo .

ATM all I want is 3 P60 pills that are ready to go with 3 different levels of performance [ AMPs to LED ]

Around 1A / 1.6A / and 2.4A or better ...

Then I want to see ! Till then ill quote current to LED and factory spec's for said current/performance , to your obvious disgust ...

Just like everyone else seems to do . :wave:
I appreciate the time and effort you have gone into , but yelling dont help

Just conveys something different to me ...

To the DDs ... Two were average , one was outstanding , and did not suffer from sag for a full 60 seconds or more .. :nana:
Doubt it you can , but here's the thing , Im not selling anything to anyone , I dont want to buy anything from anyone .

I just want to have some fun with flashlights !
And if a SSC P7 D-bin cant do 450 Lumen @ 1.6A to the LED ?
Then you better explain why , rather than give me results from previous tests . Because if there is one thing I know , there is no constant .
No two pills will ever be 100% the same ... No two batteries etc .

This SSC P7 D-bin ---

Removed from star
Base was lapped flat
Alumina Epoxied [ non conductive ]
Known Driver output . [ 10% Loss ]
1.8A at tail = 1.6A to LED [ Average for my batts ]
Pill , wrapped in Al-foil - tight fit into body [ Very Tight ]
Body = Ultrafire 502B

So what is the LED output ? or should I say starting output ?
Again , no out the front , just LED .
:popcorn:
 
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