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Thread: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

  1. #1

    Default Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Why doesn't Surefire appear to make a Cree conversion head for the M6 Guardian? With six 123 batteries, you could probably get several hours of 200 lumen output in such a combo.

    I realize 18v would fry an unprotected LED, but with the right step down circuits that limit the current to the LED, it could work, right?

    That would be one awesome light if the LED conversion head had 3 settings, such as high 200 lumens (with perhaps a few hours runtime), Medium 60 lumens (moderate runtime), and low 15 lumens (with tons of runtime)

    I love the SF M4 and M6, but these things eat batteries and yellow well below an hour in my experience. A top of the line Cree conversion head would make it actually practical.

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6


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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    guys, technically he did specifically ask why Surefire doesn't offer a conversion. He didn't ask about custom jobs...though i don't know whether he did the search

    Notregulated, that was very cool what you did with the Google search engine...how did you do that?
    I spend my days in the light thinking about flashlights in the dark

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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    SureFire has been working on an LED replacement bezel for it's Millennium Series including the M6 for years. They have a few concepts and have shown interest in bringing an LED replacement bezel to market although there is no time frame, or specific reliable information.

    One issue is that the M6 is two sets of three-SF123A's in parallel resulting in the battery pack providing '9V' with a lot of current. It can be quite wasteful if battery juice is wasted as heat etc whilst holding back the power so as not to kill the LED...
    Still, even with inefficiencies one hopes that a high output LED bezel could get into the ballpark of the output expected of the M6 and obviously increase the runtime.

  6. #6
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    The KL6 LED works if your in a pinch. I have a custom KL6 head on one of my M6's with a P4 Milky mod. It run's for a long time on primaries though I've never done and exact run-time test. I'm guessing that Surefire's new M3T LED would work fine on the M6...that is, if it's ever released.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Illumination View Post
    guys, technically he did specifically ask why Surefire doesn't offer a conversion. He didn't ask about custom jobs...though i don't know whether he did the search

    Notregulated, that was very cool what you did with the Google search engine...how did you do that?
    Thank you!

    I don't want a custom job.

    I want to wait until Surefire provides a part specifically made for Surefire.

    I was just curious why it is taking so long. For those that answered my question directly, thanks!

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by o0o View Post
    Thank you!

    I don't want a custom job.

    I want to wait until Surefire provides a part specifically made for Surefire.

    I was just curious why it is taking so long. For those that answered my question directly, thanks!
    LED Zepplin offers a M6 LED drop-in, but it it is in the custom section. It is readily available and it is a complete drop-in that took me 2 minutes the very first time I took the bezel off my M6 and dropped in the 5 R2 set-up he sells.

    It is custom, but it is also a drop-in readily available now. Mine made 850 plus regulated lumens in MrGmans lumens sphere. Check the sticky and see all the readings.

    bigchelis
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    LED Zepplin offers a M6 LED drop-in, but it it is in the custom section. It is readily available and it is a complete drop-in that took me 2 minutes the very first time I took the bezel off my M6 and dropped in the 5 R2 set-up he sells.

    It is custom, but it is also a drop-in readily available now. Mine made 850 plus regulated lumens in MrGmans lumens sphere. Check the sticky and see all the readings.

    bigchelis

    WOW that's awesome. What kind of runtime do you get from that thing?

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by leon2245 View Post
    WOW that's awesome. What kind of runtime do you get from that thing?

    Running 5 R2's it made 850 plus out the front in this format:
    I haven't tested it for runtime, but it draws 1.4A at the tail running 3 17670 cells in a 3S holder. So, the voltage is 12.6v and the 1300mAh!!

    My other battery set-up is running it with 6 17500 AW cells. It is a 3P2S holder. So, the total mAh is 3300 and the voltage is 8.4A. It draws 2.4A at the tail with this setup.

    Last,
    It can run on 2 IMR "C" cells. 8.4v and 2300mAh = but it draws 2.8~3A with this set-up. MrGman didn't test it for me in this set-up yet, but I bet it will be slightly brighter.

    Below are MrGman readings!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These drop-ins are fully regualted and were the only high power lights that didn't have drastic lumen drops after start up.
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____863.6____3 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____856.1___15 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____854.2___30 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____852.3___45 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____850.5___60 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____848.6___90 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____846.7__120 sec_______,
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    Running 5 R2's it made 850 plus out the front in this format:
    I haven't tested it for runtime, but it draws 1.4A at the tail running 3 17670 cells in a 3S holder. So, the voltage is 12.6v and the 1300mAh!!

    My other battery set-up is running it with 6 17500 AW cells. It is a 3P2S holder. So, the total mAh is 3300 and the voltage is 8.4A. It draws 2.4A at the tail with this setup.

    Last,
    It can run on 2 IMR "C" cells. 8.4v and 2300mAh = but it draws 2.8~3A with this set-up. MrGman didn't test it for me in this set-up yet, but I bet it will be slightly brighter.

    Below are MrGman readings!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These drop-ins are fully regualted and were the only high power lights that didn't have drastic lumen drops after start up.
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____863.6____3 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____856.1___15 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____854.2___30 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____852.3___45 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____850.5___60 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____848.6___90 sec_______,
    Zep-5R2-SF M6 Host____,__3X_AW17670________5 Cree R2's____846.7__120 sec_______,

    I can certainly attest to that!!!. This LED Zep with 5 individual LEDs spread out in the head has an optimum combination of LED sources versus heatsinking. This will put any P7 or MC-E to shame for that reason. If your going to be drawing 17 plus watts of power then you should get your 840 plus lumens of real out the front light for you watts worth. The price of the total system is the only real draw back. G.

    But bigchelis is an owner of a EagleTac M2X whatever or Legion II Killer, that is for sure.

    (dude, send more pizza ).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    I love my M6. Unfortunately it goes through batteries like no ones business and the light only seems to be crisp (that new batteries, 500 lumen, wow crisp) for a few minutes. Also the incan bulb takes what seems like forever (compared to LED's) to turn on to peak and turn off. For these reasons, my M6 sits in my safe with my microtech switchblades, Ka-Bars, Sig P220, Smith and Wesson N Frames and other novelty items that, while awesome, are just not practical/efficient for everyday use. Instead my S&W 642 and Surefire E2DL end up hanging out with me most days. What I have been hoping for for the last year or so (or since my E2DL replaced my E2D for everyday carry) is a way to make a M6L. When compared to the E2D, the E2DL is:


    1. Brighter
    2. Does not fade
    3. Instant on/off
    4. High/low mode
    5. Just as reliable (if not more so)
    6. Uses the same batteries
    7. Runs forever


    I read about those heads that LED Zeppelin is selling. I have to admit the thread was a little to technical for me. But from what I gathered, none of those conditions are improved except for #1. Also they are more money than the M6 they are modding. I hear talk of Surefire coming out with something, but no one knows when or what. Maybe someone can change my mind about the Zeppelin kits. I really want to start using my M6 again!

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by frankr2222 View Post
    I love my M6. Unfortunately it goes through batteries like no ones business and the light only seems to be crisp (that new batteries, 500 lumen, wow crisp) for a few minutes. Also the incan bulb takes what seems like forever (compared to LED's) to turn on to peak and turn off. For these reasons, my M6 sits in my safe with my microtech switchblades, Ka-Bars, Sig P220, Smith and Wesson N Frames and other novelty items that, while awesome, are just not practical/efficient for everyday use. Instead my S&W 642 and Surefire E2DL end up hanging out with me most days. What I have been hoping for for the last year or so (or since my E2DL replaced my E2D for everyday carry) is a way to make a M6L. When compared to the E2D, the E2DL is:


    1. Brighter
    2. Does not fade
    3. Instant on/off
    4. High/low mode
    5. Just as reliable (if not more so)
    6. Uses the same batteries
    7. Runs forever

    I read about those heads that LED Zeppelin is selling. I have to admit the thread was a little to technical for me. But from what I gathered, none of those conditions are improved except for #1. Also they are more money than the M6 they are modding. I hear talk of Surefire coming out with something, but no one knows when or what. Maybe someone can change my mind about the Zeppelin kits. I really want to start using my M6 again!


    My LED ZEP 3 P7 M6 drop-in just tested by MrGman at over 1700 out the front lumens.

    The runtime is about 45 minutes on high with 3 AW 18650 cells 2600mAh version. I don't think Surefire will be making the new LED M6 close to 1700 out the front lumens.
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    My LED ZEP 3 P7 M6 drop-in just tested by MrGman at over 1700 out the front lumens.

    The runtime is about 45 minutes on high with 3 AW 18650 cells 2600mAh version. I don't think Surefire will be making the new LED M6 close to 1700 out the front lumens.
    If you run it with 6 CR123s or with 6 17500s (+ Petrev's short tailcap), the output should be even brighter because it has the required voltage
    to deliver the 2.8A to each of the P7s and to maintain regulation.

    From what LEDZeppelin was telling me, 3 18650 cells will supply less current to the P7s and this will gradually drop.

    Like you, I have the LZ-3-P7-M6 set-up but I am using 6 CR123s.

    (I also have Petrev's 17500 carrier and short-tailcap should I decide to change to this.)

    I wouldn't be surprised if my light is outputting 2000+ lumens. Its insanely bright.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

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    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled View Post
    If you run it with 6 CR123s or with 6 17500s (+ Petrev's short tailcap), the output should be even brighter because it has the required voltage
    to deliver the 2.8A to each of the P7s and to maintain regulation.

    From what LEDZeppelin was telling me, 3 18650 cells will supply less current to the P7s and this will gradually drop.

    Like you, I have the LZ-3-P7-M6 set-up but I am using 6 CR123s.

    (I also have Petrev's 17500 carrier and short-tailcap should I decide to change to this.)

    I wouldn't be surprised if my light is outputting 2000+ lumens. Its insanely bright.

    I too have the Pete 17500 carrier. When it tested at over 1700 lumens it was with 3 AW 17650 cells. It did nearly identical numbers when MrGman tested it with 3 AW 18650 2600mAh cells.

    When I put the 6 17500 carrier the current drops due to the 24.5v imput, but since it is fully regulated the total watts stay the same. My guess is you will not see any difference in output since this is fully regulated. I mean the AW 18650's at 2.6A of current with 2600mAh capacity and specifically made for higher current can't possibley sag too much.


    I have about 4 different cell configurations for the LED ZEP drop-ins and the regulation rocks. More voltage, less current. Less voltage, more current. No matter what the power stays the same.
    Last edited by bigchelis; 06-23-2009 at 03:37 PM.
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  16. #16
    Flashaholic* 1wrx7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    My LED ZEP 3 P7 M6 drop-in just tested by MrGman at over 1700 out the front lumens.

    The runtime is about 45 minutes on high with 3 AW 18650 cells 2600mAh version. I don't think Surefire will be making the new LED M6 close to 1700 out the front lumens.

    I was wondering if anyone sent their MZ3P7 mod to get tested. I knew mine was bright but I didn't have any numbers. Do you know what bin P7's were used? I'm guessing a 3A SharkBuck was used.

    I love my Led Zep M6 mod. It's easily my brightest light. Even on the low level of the Remora it's very bright.

    As for a SF product... we'll have to wait and see. I for one hope we see something
    My backpack's... got jets

  17. #17

    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    So the ZEP 3 P7 kit has multiple modes (high/low)? And you guys are getting around 1700 lumens (tested, not calculated) for 45 minutes on high? That does sound pretty nice... I may need to get one. What is low? And what are you guys using for a tail cap? I'm assuming LEDZEP sends the head complete, just screw it on the front of the light? And I can use the stock carrier/ CR123A's? Thanks for the help guys.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by frankr2222 View Post
    So the ZEP 3 P7 kit has multiple modes (high/low)? And you guys are getting around 1700 lumens (tested, not calculated) for 45 minutes on high? That does sound pretty nice... I may need to get one. What is low? And what are you guys using for a tail cap? I'm assuming LEDZEP sends the head complete, just screw it on the front of the light? And I can use the stock carrier/ CR123A's? Thanks for the help guys.

    It gets 1710 from a full charge on high at turn on and drops somewhat as it warms up. It was holding over 1500 lumens after 3 minutes, we did not test it straight out to 45 minutes and measure the lumens at the same time. We measured lumens to the 3 minute mark. G.

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* easilyled's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    I too have the Pete 17500 carrier. When it tested at over 1700 lumens it was with 3 AW 17650 cells. It did nearly identical numbers when MrGman tested it with 3 AW 18650 2600mAh cells.

    When I put the 6 17500 carrier the current drops due to the 24.5v imput, but since it is fully regulated the total watts stay the same. My guess is you will not see any difference in output since this is fully regulated. I mean the AW 18650's at 2.6A of current with 2600mAh capacity and specifically made for higher current can't possibley sag too much.


    I have about 4 different cell configurations for the LED ZEP drop-ins and the regulation rocks. More voltage, less current. Less voltage, more current. No matter what the power stays the same.
    I believe you are mistaken.

    LEDZeppelin told me specifically that using 3 18650s would not keep the setup in regulation and the initial current
    to the P7s would be less for my setup (which uses a Shark/Remora) than with 6 cells.

    In other words with 3 18650s, even initially, the P7s are not pushed at spec.

    He told me you need the extra voltage provided by 6 cells to keep the Remora in regulation.

    He bench-tested my LZ-3-P7 module prior to sending me my turnkey light and these were his observations/results/conclusions.

    After all he designed the modules himself, so if anyone should know, it should be him!!

    This is why I am sure that the output tested by MrGman would have been even higher than 1700 lumens
    if you had used 6 cells in your setup.
    Last edited by easilyled; 06-24-2009 at 06:51 AM.
    Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* Search's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    I wonder if an LED version would be as popular over the incandescent with the advantages of how it is now.


  21. #21
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surefire LED conversion head for M6

    Quote Originally Posted by easilyled View Post
    I believe you are mistaken.

    LEDZeppelin told me specifically that using 3 18650s would not keep the setup in regulation and the initial current
    to the P7s would be less for my setup (which uses a Shark/Remora) than with 6 cells.

    In other words with 3 18650s, even initially, the P7s are not pushed at spec.

    He told me you need the extra voltage provided by 6 cells to keep the Remora in regulation.

    He bench-tested my LZ-3-P7 module prior to sending me my turnkey light and these were his observations/results/conclusions.

    After all he designed the modules himself, so if anyone should know, it should be him!!

    This is why I am sure that the output tested by MrGman would have been even higher than 1700 lumens
    if you had used 6 cells in your setup.

    I should have asked MrGman to test it with 6 17500 6S Carrier

    MrGman has sent his sphere away now and Nailbender is the new owner and it would be more difficult for me to get the M6 tested again....

    If you PM Nailbender I am sure he will be happy to test your M6 LED ZEP drop-in. I will wait untill MrGman makes another sphere and drive over for testing.
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

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