Surefire: opinions, comments, experience.

Megatorch

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
51
Lets talk about Surefire seriously. There are many models and series.

Which things make Surefire flashlights the best in the world.
Practical and technical subjects.
The talking can be about conceptual and ideological solutions.
There are many people who has many Surefire lights in their collections and can compare, talk about these great lights very competently with practical ideas.

- Which charismatic things have these lights inside? Why do they 'catch' the customers?
- Which concrete examples of different technical and constructive ideas do they have?
- How seriously are made their led models?
- Which things give us their ergonomic and design solutions?
- Which models of Surefire do you like: tactical and EDC models?
- How many times do you notice the problems with these lights? Can you confirm great lifetime guarantee of Surefire?
- Which things do you expect to see in new models of Surefire?
- Why many models of Surefire do not have the knurling? Is it comfortable for practical using?
- How they confirm this sentence: "The simplest is more durable."?
- Will Surefire leave civilian market?
- Do you buy these USA flashlights because of patriotism?
- Which steps do Surefire a favorite and which steps make them like an outsider?

BTW, why US Army flashlights should have red/blue led?

Thank you in advance for your answers.
 
Last edited:

dano

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2000
Messages
3,881
Location
East Bay, Cali.
No. I do not work in Surefire. :wave:
The main idea is to understand the legend of flashlights - Surefire. These questions are for your help.

But you may work somewhere else, overseas.

I'd suggest a search, as this topic is too common and the post is overwhelming in its generalized questions.
 
Last edited:

Size15's

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Messages
18,415
Location
Kettering, England
I suggest you can find most of the answers by taking the time to search through and read what the CPF community has already discussed many times over the years

You ask a whole load of questions but they are almost meaningless without the context of why you are asking. If you give us some background to what you hope to achieve we may be able to be specific enough to give this some relevance.
 

dcycleman

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
326
I would think the mod would move this to general flashlight discussion due to the fact that it is much more encompassing than leds alone
 

Kestrel

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
7,355
Location
Willamette Valley, OR
I suggest you can find most of the answers by taking the time to search through and read what the CPF community has already discussed many times over the years

You ask a whole load of questions but they are almost meaningless without the context of why you are asking.
+1. This has been discussed in many many threads. I suggest using the CPF Search function for "SureFire". The breadth of what you are asking could generate an entire book.
 

Patriot

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
11,254
Location
Arizona
No. I do not work in Surefire. :wave:
The main idea is to understand the legend of flashlights - Surefire. These questions are for your help.



You wouldn't have to work for Surefire to be involved with market research. ;)

I could be flat wrong but it also seems that you might be using language translator software due to the common and typical grammatical errors I usually see when they're used. Nothing wrong with that of course but in conjunction with your list of inquiries seems suspicious, maybe.

There is no easy way of answering each point that you list since one could write volumes in response to any one of them. In response to Surefire being the "best in the world" I'd say that's mostly true when it comes to production lights. Some models within the line are better than others but when you look at their product line as a whole, no one else offers as many varied light types and at very high quality, as Surefire. Lastly, my guess is that Surefire will never leave the civilian sector. It seems to me that they are expanding their line of civilian based products and marketing efforts.
 

kramer5150

Flashaholic
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
6,328
Location
Palo Alto, CA
OK I'll take a stab at this one... You can insert "IMHO" before each of my answers.

Q-Which things make Surefire flashlights the best in the world.
A-They are not the best in the world. They are good at what they do well. They are poor at what they do poorly. Just like any other make/model, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Its up to the consumer to understand his preferences and select a product that meets those criteria.

Q-Which charismatic things have these lights inside? Why do they 'catch' the customers?
A-Long history of customer support and replacement part availability. My 6P and M2 have been very reliable I would not hesitate to consider another SF product.

Q-Which concrete examples of different technical and constructive ideas do they have?
A-I think they pioneered the idea of the P60 drop in module, as well as the 1-inch diameter weapon mountable body... and a host of accessories to go with those ideas. The Z41 twist-switch is the most reliable switching mechanism I am aware of, and is one of SFs many design patents.

Q-How seriously are made their led models?
A-Very serious. My understanding is that SF is still mainly a mom & pop organization where every employee takes pride in what they do to contribute to the overall team.

Q-Which things give us their ergonomic and design solutions?
A-I do not understand this question, please rephrase.

Q-Which models of Surefire do you like: tactical and EDC models?
A-6P for LED host capabilities and M2 as an incan host. I am not a fan of their EDC models, since they are limited to primary CR123 only. The ability to use recharge-able cells is a BIG deal-breaker for me.

Q-How many times do you notice the problems with these lights? Can you confirm great lifetime guarantee of Surefire?
A-I have never had a problem with either of my two SF lights, in 2 years of service at work. They worked great straight out of the box. I have never needed to use their customer service. Conversely 3/5 of my lights from DX were DOA (Dead On Arrival).

Q-Which things do you expect to see in new models of Surefire?
A-Continued use of high efficiency LEDs. More weapon mountables. Continued durability and reliability.


Q-Why many models of Surefire do not have the knurling? Is it comfortable for practical using?
A-Just different design I guess. I prefer knurling, but its not a deal breaker in my book. The Z2 and M2 are very comfortable to cigar hold for long periods, combined with the rubber grip ring they are very secure between the knuckles.

Q-How they confirm this sentence: "The simplest is more durable."?
A-Fewer parts to fail.

Q-Will Surefire leave civilian market?
A-I don't think so.

Q-Do you buy these USA flashlights because of patriotism?
A-Partially, yes. Surefires are made 350 miles south of my home. Personally I see nothing wrong with supporting a local business.

Q-Which steps do Surefire a favorite and which steps make them like an outsider?
A-I do not understand this question... please re-phrase.

Q-BTW, why US Army flashlights should have red/blue led?
A-Red color preserves night adapted vision. Blue AFIAK is used to highlight blood and other bodily fluids. FWIW, its not only US military... other agencies around the world use colored lights.

Thank you in advance for your answers.
A-Sure... any time.
 
Last edited:

Megatorch

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
51
They are not the best in the world. They are good at what they do well. They are poor at what they do poorly. Just like any other make/model, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Its up to the consumer to understand his preferences and select a product that meets those criteria.
You are right. Everybody can choose the best for his purposes.

Long history of customer support and replacement part availability. My 6P and M2 have been very reliable I would not hesitate to consider another SF product.
Do you mean marketing things and the service during long period?

I think they pioneered the idea of the P60 drop in module, as well as the 1-inch diameter weapon mountable body... and a host of accessories to go with those ideas. The Z41 twist-switch is the most reliable switching mechanism I am aware of.
Yes, they made many standards in that. As I know Z41 is more strong then switches in other models.

Q-How seriously are made their led models?
A-Very serious. My understanding is that SF is still mainly a mom & pop organization where every employee takes pride in what they do to contribute to the overall team.
I see.

I do not understand this question, please rephrase.
What do you like more in your Surefire: design / ergonomic / knurling / beam / clip etc.?

6P for LED host capabilities and M2 as an incan host.
What is about backup models?

A-I have never had a problem with either of my two SF lights, in 2 years of service at work. They worked great straight out of the box. Conversely 3/5 of my lights from DX were DOA.
Fully agree.

Continued use of high efficiency LEDs. More weapon mountables. Continued durability and reliability.
What do you think about Invictus control ring with many modes, strobe, SOS? Is it comfortable? I think - 3-4 modes are enough...

Just different design I guess. I prefer knurling, but its not a deal breaker in my book. The Z2 and M2 are very comfortable to cigar hold for long periods, combined with the rubber grip ring they are very secure between the knuckles.
I prefer knurling too, but noticed that many Surefire flashlights do not have it.

Q-How they confirm this sentence: "The simplest is more durable."?
A-Fewer parts to fail.
There are many cars which are complicated more and more with the following batch. The producers want to make more automatic and comfortable things. Not the simplest, but comfortable. With new functionality.

A-Red preserves night adapted vision.
We can use warm tint led. Do you think 5mm red led can be better?

Blue AFIAK is used to highlight blood and other bodily fluids.
As I know blood in blue light will be almost black but not highlighted. What do you mean?
 

Megatorch

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 4, 2008
Messages
51
you might be using language translator software
You are wrong. We can chat online or talk by phone. :)

There is no easy way of answering each point that you list since one could write volumes in response to any one of them.
Yes. There is MANY information in MANY threads which are very old. Maybe some things were changed... Then I asked and started the talking.

In response to Surefire being the "best in the world" I'd say that's mostly true when it comes to production lights. Some models within the line are better than others but when you look at their product line as a whole, no one else offers as many varied light types and at very high quality, as Surefire.
Which models do you use?

Lastly, my guess is that Surefire will never leave the civilian sector. It seems to me that they are expanding their line of civilian based products and marketing efforts.
Do you mean headlamps?
 

kramer5150

Flashaholic
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
6,328
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Q-Do you mean marketing things and the service during long period?
A-By that I mean their CPF history of customer service... over the lifespan of their products.

Q-What do you like more in your Surefire: design / ergonomic / knurling / beam / clip etc.?
A-The thing that attracts me most to the 6P and M2 is their ability to be modified and upgraded. They can be transformed into just about anything the user needs with some simple drop ins and lego options.


Q-What is about backup models?
A-I am not a fan of any light that does not accept recharge-able cells.

Q-What do you think about Invictus control ring with many modes, strobe, SOS? Is it comfortable? I think - 3-4 modes are enough...
A-I don't think this light will make my "want list"... its too expensive for my budget, and does not accept 18650.


Q-There are many cars which are complicated more and more with the following batch. The producers want to make more automatic and comfortable things. Not the simplest, but comfortable. With new functionality.
A-I firmly believe the simplest designs are the most robust, durable and reliable. That is my opinion, based purely on my own experiences. Disputing a personal opinion is pointless. But if you really want to draw reliability / durability parallelisms to other industries... you can find similarities. The terrorist millitary vehicle and firearm of choice is the Toyota HiLux and AK-47. Both have proven to be reliable, bomb-proof, durable, and ultra simplistic in their design. They bash those things through mud, wind, rain, sand storms, all with minimal maintenance and part replacement.... not unlike the surefire 6P. So in my book well-designed simplicity is key to durability and reliability. IMHO the Fenix L1T-V2 is also very simple and basic in its design.

Q-We can use warm tint led. Do you think 5mm red led can be better?
A-I use a red filter on my ~3 Lumen solitaire, and its very good at preserving night adapted vision. I do have a Zebralight which uses a WD tint XR-E. Its lowest mode is ~3 Lumens, its very good at preserving night adapted vision, but not as good as the red filtered solitaire. The flip side of that however is the red color washes out any color differences. I find the low-current driven Q5-WD more useful than a red filtered solitaire.

Q-As I know blood in blue light will be almost black but not highlighted. What do you mean?
A-Oh... I made a mistake. Sorry about that.

:twothumbs
 
Last edited:

Search

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,779
Location
West Tn
- Which charismatic things have these lights inside? Why do they 'catch' the customers?

That's too specific for the mass amount of people who buy SureFire. It shows when SureFire doesn't even specify what type of LED bulb is in the light.

The parts are simple. Simple isn't exactly better. There can be simple parts that still suck.

SureFire has a good history of putting internals that just work. The outside construction is also top notch as one CPF member proved by sawing through one flashlight with the knurling into another flashlight by a different company.

- Which concrete examples of different technical and constructive ideas do they have?

The ones that work. They make a wide variety of lights. Any situation you might find yourself in, that's realistic, they have a light that would work flawlessly.

Someone will say they would want a different light than what SureFire offers for a situation, but they probably wouldn't need it.

They don't really offer anything over the top, which is why I'm drawn to them. Radical ideas aren't always good. Sometimes what just works, and work well, is best.

- How seriously are made their led models?

If you meant to say "How seriously made are their led models?" then the answer is very.

Search the LED lottery and you will find that there is a chance of getting any tint light. Throw that out of your head and their leds all work.

It's not the LED that makes a light good. Each flashlight has an intended use/uses. Therefore the LEDs output or UI is set for that intended use/uses.

At the same time, some lights are just general use lights. Again they make multiple lights so you have a choice to pick what's suited best for you.

- Which things give us their ergonomic and design solutions?

Bad question as there isn't an answer.

It's not like car companies. SureFires lights all use one of two tailcaps: Forward clickie or Twistie. Their lengths are all based on output and runtime which regulates how many batteries. The widths are set for an application. General lights are usually the same width all the way down. A2, L2, 6P for example. Tactical lights usually have a little cut out and a combat ring. C2, Z2, M3 for example.

- Which models of Surefire do you like: tactical and EDC models?

Tactical because of what I do. I think they have the best tactically designs light because that seems to be their main intended market.

I EDC an E1B which is EDC because of it's multi-mode. It's still a tactical level light as far as output and reliability.

- How many times do you notice the problems with these lights? Can you confirm great lifetime guarantee of Surefire?

I've never seen a SureFire light die. I have heard of problems but they aren't often. I know for a fact they get abused like you wouldn't believe.

Customer Service is top notch so no worries.

- Which things do you expect to see in new models of Surefire?

As far as overall, nothing. Updated LEDs and slightly different UIs on a few things. Nothing that strays far from what SureFire already does.

If they did go too far, they would leave what they have built. What they have built is going strong and growing. Wouldn't make much sense and I would be pissed. I'm biased for actual reasons and don't want to see the only company I trust change line up.

- Why many models of Surefire do not have the knurling? Is it comfortable for practical using?

www.SureFire.com/flashlights .. I'm not counting.

It's comfortable. It's not sharp or too rough.

- How they confirm this sentence: "The simplest is more durable."?

By making lights that fit that script? That question wasn't very thought out :) That quote fits what they produce.

- Will Surefire leave civilian market?

I've always believe their lights were made with the people who put their lives on the line in mind. What is produced is on a level that those peopel can trust.

This is a reason why a lot of civilians use them. They work, no matter what.

It would be more of a question of if SureFire will enter the civialian market further. They make a good number of civilian marketed lights. However IMO they make more "tactically" marketed stuff that civilian use just as well.

- Do you buy these USA flashlights because of patriotism?

It's a bonus. I can probably vouch for many people when I say they are bought for what they are.

Mag Industries is in Canada. Look at how popular they are.

- Which steps do Surefire a favorite and which steps make them like an outsider?

Err? I have no idea what your question is.

They don't pick on little kids so no one can really hate them. However the only gripe I've heard was price and their catalog hehe.

However the price thing just reflects quality IMO.
 

BIGLOU

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
717
Become a flashoholic and buy all of them. LOL. Kramer5150 and Search broke it down :twothumbs
 

Patriot

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
11,254
Location
Arizona
Yes. There is MANY information in MANY threads which are very old. Maybe some things were changed... Then I asked and started the talking.


Sorry, I just don't understand what you're trying to say, therefore I somehow doubt a phone conversation would be any more clear.





Which models do you use?

Most used:

M6
A2
L2 old
L1 Cree
Backup
& other custom modded models



Do you mean headlamps?

With regards to marketing the headlamps came to mind but it's certainly not the only model marketed or made for the civilian sector.
 

Search

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
1,779
Location
West Tn
Yes. There is MANY information in MANY threads which are very old. Maybe some things were changed... Then I asked and started the talking.

Put it this way.

SureFire is why this place exists in a sense. I'm sure someone would have beat them to it but..

Back in the 80's SureFire produced the original 6P. It was a small, very bright flashlight that was unlike anything. It started what we have now.

They were the first to do a lot of things and still do it VERY well.

SureFire is like the bar. It's what other companies should strive to reach. Yes, their prices are high but that comes with quality, customer service that sometimes just gives you things when you have even the smallest complaint, and the fact that it remains Made in USA and bears the qualities from that.

Other companies do make lights that are on SureFires level. Don't get me wrong. For most people there is just something about SureFire.

My all time favorite light is the 6PL. It's just the way it feels in my hand, along with all of the others.

IMO, and like I stated earlier, their goal in mind is to produce flashlights that will withstand use by the men and women who put their lives on the line. They make them so those people can trust them. The different lights are designed for different applications. It's a wide variety of lights to chose what best suits you and your needs. When you find what you want, you will know it's going to work. If the random chance comes that it doesn't or something goes wrong, done. It's replaced.

What follows the thinking of every light needs to save a soldier, marine, or officers life is an assortment of lights that are proven.

Fenix makes lights that meet this level too. What's going to happen in the future is these other companies will built a report over time and will emerge as a STRONG and fierce competitor with SureFire.

They do make lights specific to the normal persons needs. However, those lights seem to be designed like they are going to be on the battlefield or mean streets.

Just buy some. When you hold it you will notice.

Just to warn you though. Threads like this will draw a LOT of attention. People like me will want to post about how biased we are. Others (where are yall?) will tell you that this is the 9999999 thread asking the same thing. This horse has been beaten into a sardine can. Do a little searching and the information is all over the place. Probably in the next few pages.
 

woodrow

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
2,027
Location
New Mexico
Just had to post...this thread brings up one of my favorite things here at cpf.....I saw the title....one that I have seen Sooo many times before....and before...and before... But I still just HAD to click on it...I was drawn in...could not resist. I love this place.
 
Top