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Thread: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

  1. #1

    Question LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I hope this isn't true -
    but watching my local WalMarts -
    they seem to have dropped or reduced LSD batteries -
    eneloops have been cleared out for some time now;
    I no longer see any Ray-O-Vac Hybrids;
    and I can't seem to see the Duracell Pre-Charged,
    other than a few packs with their value charger.

    Are LSD rechargeable batteries losing ground?

    Please let me know if you have seen an INcrease in stocks of LSD batteries anywhere?

  2. #2

    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Actually, I have never, ever seen or heard of LSD batteries before I joined CPF, so I would guess that either 1) they are gone off the shelves before they can restock them; or 2) LSD batteries are costing too much. I would love to see a pair of Eneloops in my Walmart, my poor old Duracells are getting beaten to death by my Magellan.
    I would probably pick up a pack of Energizer NiMH 2850mAh's before I even blinked at a 2100mAh LSD battery, though.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    In my area, they seem to be holding their own, if not increasing a bit.

    At Wal-Mart I have the choice of Rayovac Hybrid AA, AAA, C, D, & 9V, Rayovac 4.0 AA & AAA, Duracell Pre-Charged, and Pure Energy AA & AAA cells.

    Actual Eneloops still seem to be a Costco-only item here since they disappeared from other B&M stores over a year ago.

    Rebadged Eneloops are also available at one of the large national grocery chains under the Presidents Choice brand.

  4. #4

    Question Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rose View Post
    In my area, they seem to be holding their own, if not increasing a bit.
    Thanks Black Rose - that at least sounds encouraging-
    it was depressing seeing or rather not seeing LSDs in WalMarts -
    they do still have the Kodak Pre-Charged - but the price is now $10.99 when they started at $7.99.....

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInvader View Post
    Actually, I have never, ever seen or heard of LSD batteries before I joined CPF
    Perhaps it's lack of LSD advertisement and product education/information that makes TheInvader's remarks pretty typical for non-enthusiasts?

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    Flashaholic Light Sabre's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    What I have been seeing is that Walmart is replacing NMH's that have a mAh rating on them to those without any. They don't say on the battery and they don't say on the package. They replaced the 2000 mAH Rayovac Hybrids with Rayovac batteries that are only 1400 mAh and may be charging the same price. My rule is, if it doesn't give a mAh rating on the battery, I won't buy it.

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    you should know that if anything is good it is Discontinued, because people only need it Once :-)
    some of the best things in the world were unavilable, because they didnt keep selling them to the same people over and over again.
    wallmarf feeds the disposable society (somewhat) cheap china junk that last a while and you go back and get another one.
    they also base thier stocking on what is (and isnt) selling at the time, they are in it for the money, not a public service sort of.
    if things arent rolling off the shelf, they will use that space for something that does.

    they have "midnight specials" sometimes on stuff that is "out of season" and will sell baskets of junk for 10c on the doller , to rid themselves of items that wont TURN, and you can guarentee whatever they filled that space with afterwards got thier 90c back over and over again. for every single LSD cell that would last 500 times over, they have always had 5000 disposables available, and pumping them out the door.
    Last edited by VidPro; 07-30-2009 at 08:55 PM.

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    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnknownVT View Post
    they do still have the Kodak Pre-Charged - but the price is now $10.99 when they started at $7.99.....
    That is one of the LSD battery brands I have never seen here.
    I'm guessing they just don't make it available in Canada.

    Perhaps it's lack of LSD advertisement and product education/information that makes TheInvader's remarks pretty typical for non-enthusiasts?
    The only advertisements I have seen for LSD batteries are the TV spots and magazine ads for Duracell Pre-Charged.

    Until I joined CPF last year and heard about Eneloops, I didn't realize Sanyo still made batteries My prior experience with Sanyo cells was with Cadnica AAs in the mid 80's.

    I was at Costco last weekend and saw a couple looking at rechargables.
    I assume they were drawn to the regular Duracell rechargables due to name recognition.
    I told then that the Eneloops were much better batteries, but all I got was a look like I had 2 heads.

  8. #8

    Exclamation Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Sabre View Post
    What I have been seeing is that Walmart is replacing NMH's that have a mAh rating on them to those without any. They don't say on the battery and they don't say on the package. They replaced the 2000 mAH Rayovac Hybrids with Rayovac batteries that are only 1400 mAh and may be charging the same price. My rule is, if it doesn't give a mAh rating on the battery, I won't buy it.
    I think that's more to do with RayOVac rather than WalMart.

    However it's been a proven fallacy that the higher the capacity the better the rechargeable battery.

    Unfortunately as many here have found out and know that higher capacity NiMH batteries tend to be more fragile, and can be damaged due to accidental or deliberate misuse/abuse.

    So much so that almost all of the higher capacity NiMH develop high rates of self-discharge fairly quickly.

    Hence the infatuation with LSD (Low Self-Discharge) batteries here on CPF.

    So buying just by capacity may not be such a good idea.....

    More dying Energizer 2500's

    Duracell 2650 batteries dying

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
    you should know that if anything is good it is Discontinued, because people only need it Once :-)
    some of the best things in the world were unavilable, because they didnt keep selling them to the same people over and over again.
    Yep, sad but true. Back to the topic at hand, LSD cells never really seemed to be that widely available in retail stores here but you can still get all you want online. Come to think of it, rechargeables in general have only been afforded a fraction of the shelf space compared to disposables. Not faulting the stores really-you devote floor space based on how much profit per unit time a product makes. They may make more per unit with rechargeables but they'll also sell far less.

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    Flashaholic* lctorana's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I reckong they're gaining ground in Australia.

    All supermarkets now carry at least one brand of LSD AA and AAA, and the price differential over "conventional" NiMH is not great.

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Great post VidPro. Too true.

  12. #12

    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    The Source stopped carrying Eneloops here in Canada a while back. When I asked about it, they fed me a line about them being unreliable as well as having a short lifespan and wearing out quickly. I've found the exact opposite to be the case with Eneloops in my use, so either they were sourcing counterfeits or the representative was misrepresenting.

    VidPro pretty much hit the nail on the head. You don't have to re-buy a reliable product, so it stands to reason that they may make stocking decisions based on the fact that the product doesn't seem to move after the initial rush is over. Couple that with charge retention and Alkalines lose even more of the advantages they had over rechargeables, impacting those sales as well.

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    Flashaholic* Niconical's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    It's all about the number on the side of a LSD being smaller than the number on the side of an average regular nimh. Example, in a local store on the same shelf I can get the rebranded enloops (Duraloops) for 18.90 Euros for 4xAA, about $26.70, but just next to them on the shelf are Energizer 2500 at the same price. Yes, the infamous Energizer 2500, and they seem to sell a lot more than the Duraloops because I secretly marked a pack of the Duraloops and it didn't move for days. The Energizers seem to fly off the shelf, along with 1 or 2 other Energizer capacities and some 2650 mah (I think) regular Duracells.

    Why? All John Public sees is 2500mah for Energizer, 2000mah for the Duraloop, and the choice is made

    The Energizers being green and silver and shiny is probably a factor as well I suppose.


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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by xenonk View Post
    The Source stopped carrying Eneloops here in Canada a while back. When I asked about it, they fed me a line about them being unreliable as well as having a short lifespan and wearing out quickly. I've found the exact opposite to be the case with Eneloops in my use, so either they were sourcing counterfeits or the representative was misrepresenting.
    I bought my very first sets of Eneloops from The Source when they were blowing them out for a great price.

    The representative was a tool.

    Lack of advertising about the benefits of LSD cells and slow moving product were the real reasons.

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I was just in the Walmart in Richmond, CA yesterday. They had Rayovac Hybrids, Duraloops (white top, made in Japan), and the Kodak pre charged. I'm not sure if they had all of those in aaa, but definitely in aa. The Target stores around here also have the Rayovac Hybrids and Duraloops (possibly the Kodaks too, in the camera section). Armed with my knowledge from reading CPF, I'm only buying Duraloops or Rayovac Hybrids these days.


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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Maybe at Walmart, and other big box stores, but not in general. The big problem, is they are marketed as pre-charged, with less emphasis on the real value with is the low self-discharge rate.

    In that most people don't understand what low self-discharge means, they see 2800 MAH for the same price as 2000 MAH lsd cells and buy the 2800 MAH cells. As mentioned, its all about what sells on the shelf.

    As time goes on, and more people are educated, the lsd batteries will become the choice, and the normal NiMH cells will start losing ground.

  17. #17

    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Something not designed to be replaced every 10 minutes and thus not flooding the shelves of wally world?

    Yes, they're losing ground

  18. #18

    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoStoneman View Post

    In that most people don't understand what low self-discharge means, they see 2800 MAH for the same price as 2000 MAH lsd cells and buy the 2800 MAH cells.
    But the vast majority have absolutely no idea what a mAh is or would even notice that the capacity of different batteries are different.

    Then again, how could we expect the vast majority of people to know such things if they don't sit around on a Friday night reading about flashlight batteries???

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    The thing to keep in mind is that the USA is, in general, not a "science-friendly" culture. Given the emphasis on testing and proper procedure for characterizing flashlights, batteries and such here at CPF, I'd say that as a group we're way out of the mainstream.

    With few exceptions, bright people are treated with suspicion in the general culture, science is too often equated with "mad scientist" excesses, and all kinds of ridiculous woo-woo is preferred over rational, provable facts. Given all this - can you imagine how difficult it would be to communicate to the "bigger is better" general public why something with a smaller rating number is actually the better choice?
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I've been buying 3 year old Eneloops (which actually made it down below 1.2 volts!) at the local "liquidator" store. They still come up to full capacity on the BC-900. Maybe the world is just overloaded with LSD cells right now, and they just won't go away.

    Maybe after the nuclear holocaust, roaches will be eating Twinkies and using LED lights with LSD batteries?
    It ain't easy being me, but someone's gotta do it.

  21. #21

    Question Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    So....

    are LSDs losing ground?

    Some say no, due to an increase in their area.

    Others say yes, because they are too good and last too long -
    so the big conglomerates can't sell enough and stopped stocking them -

    So this may eventually have the effect that LSDs may become "specialist" items, that remain available, but not as easily available at the regular high street stores?......

    I was hoping that the LSD rising popularity momentum would continue -
    maybe we've passed the peak
    - and this is just the way of the world?

  22. #22
    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I was in Fry's yesterday. They had run out of AA Hybriloops , but they did have a some fresh stock eneloops (09-02) in the new packaging. They also had large quantities of Rayovac hybrids and Rayovac 4.0s. I'd say about half of what was on display was LSD.

    I didn't buy the Rayovac 4.0's even at the special low price of $5. Not eneloops, you see.

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I see the LSD types at a lower ratio to the regular rechargeables. They don't fly off the shelves...it takes a spell as sampled from your local Wal Mart. Even at that...I see plenty of people still buying alkies so the shelves are dominantly toward those. Eneloops are at Costco sporadically and those I have to hunt between 4 locations to find. Bought the Dura version from WalMart and of course, the following week Costco had them.

    All my Energizer 2,500 and 2,300's bit it, the C9000 couldn't bring any of those beyond 1,200. Dismal and quite disappointing. Energizers...ugh...12 went into the recycling bin within 2 years. The Duracell 2000 mAh (China) bought about 4 years ago...still chugging away. Those 4 cells top out at 1,6XX average mAh.
    Mike

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnknownVT View Post
    So this may eventually have the effect that LSDs may become "specialist" items
    I think they are right now, and the major players will keep them that way if possible. Alkalines are bad in every way other then convenience to consumers, and lots of profit for battery makers.

    The reality remains that many will never get on board with lsd's, but most will at some point.

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    Flashaholic Light Sabre's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    One thing that I have noticed here in Boulder & Longmont CO is that the AA Japanese white tipped Duracell LSD's are being replaced with the Chinese black tipped ones. The Duracell AAA LSD's are all still the white tipped Japanese and they don't seem to be moving at all. Their pegs are always full.

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    Flashaholic* RA40's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Sabre View Post
    One thing that I have noticed here in Boulder & Longmont CO is that the AA Japanese white tipped Duracell LSD's are being replaced with the Chinese black tipped ones. The Duracell AAA LSD's are all still the white tipped Japanese and they don't seem to be moving at all. Their pegs are always full.
    My observations as well. Luckily the Wal Mart did have a few packs of the Japan made Duracells but the new stock that was placed on the hook were all black capped. I haven't been back in 2 weeks to check this particular store's sale rate...I'm not expecting it to fly off.
    Mike

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Sabre View Post
    One thing that I have noticed here in Boulder & Longmont CO is that the AA Japanese white tipped Duracell LSD's are being replaced with the Chinese black tipped ones. The Duracell AAA LSD's are all still the white tipped Japanese and they don't seem to be moving at all. Their pegs are always full.
    I see the black and white topped packages mixed up on racks in stores here and what makes it worse is that sometimes the black topped are in the packages that say they are Pre-Charged, especially the AAA size.

    I have seen them fly off the shelves at bit at Shoppers Drug Marts but only when they were on sale for $6.99 for 4 AA and AAA packs.
    Last edited by Flashfirstask?later; 08-02-2009 at 08:49 PM.

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    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashfirstask?later View Post
    I see the black and white topped packages mixed up on racks in stores here and what makes it worse is that sometimes the black topped are in the packages that say they are Pre-Charged, especially the AAA size.
    The black topped ones are Pre-Charged, they are just not as good as the white topped ones.

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    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    I say gaining ground. Other than Energizer NiMH cells, the majority of remaining brands are of the LSD variety.

    Hell, two weeks ago at Disney World I noticed that they were selling Rayovac 4.0's for their NiMH cells on display where batteries, film, and disposable cameras were sold. I was rather shocked actually.

    Duraloops or Durahybrids seem to outnumber their high capacity cells these days, and ROV Hybrids are plentiful at Target.

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    Default Re: LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Happy View Post
    The black topped ones are Pre-Charged, they are just not as good as the white topped ones.
    Yes but I also see the black top ones in same packages without any mention of Pre-Charged.

    These can be expensive in some places as BestBuy in Canada are selling 4XAA and 4xAAA for 24.99 regular price.
    Last edited by Flashfirstask?later; 08-02-2009 at 08:56 PM.

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